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Maryland Sniper Shootings-FR Commentary
Fox, CNN, Press Conferences | October 9, 2002 | Fox, CNN, Press Conferences

Posted on 10/09/2002 3:14:53 AM PDT by Peach

Another press conference due soon. To avoid multiple vanity threads regarding any news that comes from press conferences, thought we'd keep a live commentary thread going again today.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist; maryland; sniper; terrorism
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To: browardchad
"I am God" would be outrageous blasphemy to a Muslim.

Yeah but you can lie to an infidel and it's ok...so maybe he was 'just doing it for effect.'

201 posted on 10/09/2002 6:33:45 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Peach
What if all of this "Tarot Card" information has been made up to keep the people calm in the wake of an important election and a less than desireable economy? After all, we never really heard much about the gunman at LAX, the radioactive tanker off the east coast, and they tried to pass the plane crash after September 11th off as an accident where an ENGINE just decided to fall off a plane.

I think the government is trying to keep the sheep calm. Maybe some of these disasters can be linked to terrorism, maybe all, maybe none. I don't think we'll ever really know....to be honest.

202 posted on 10/09/2002 6:34:38 AM PDT by YoungKentuckyConservative
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To: NCLou
CYBER HIGH FIVE!!! I'll ping ya in the future...you want to also get in some other of my observations?

The sniper is using an ONLINE mapping service...Mapquest or YahooMaps whatever...he does his homework in advance...he may go to parks acting as tho he is "bird watching" with binoculars or a scope. He will appear "normal". He may even walk a dog or throw a frisbee and "scout" the parks.

He is MORE interested in the "Cat and mouse" game...in order of the events and the actions...

He enjoys "spying" through the scope MORE than the shooting

Shooting is the "final calling card" the activities UP to the shooting are ritualistic...MORE important to him than the actually killing/maiming of the people.

He is watching and listening to the news with the vim and vigor of a s^&t eating dog.

The activities LEADING to the actual shooting will RULE out fingerprints on a casing...he is very "ritualistic"...his preparations prior very very calculated...there will be NO prints and IF there are...they will NOT be his...could be a family members'...

203 posted on 10/09/2002 6:34:45 AM PDT by antivenom
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To: relee
Was raised Catholic and in Maryland...the Michael's store and the Gates of Heaven were SCREAMING at me when I saw it...
204 posted on 10/09/2002 6:35:49 AM PDT by antivenom
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To: Prodigal Son
What's all this I keep hearing about Michael's? I take it's a store in America?

Michael's is an arts & crafts store in the area....some are wondering if Mr. Sick Nutbag is thinking of a more "heavenly" Michael and just using the craft store as a way to 'identify' or as a symbol...and also wondering about the two shootings that took place at the 'Gates of Heaven' cemetary.

205 posted on 10/09/2002 6:35:59 AM PDT by ZinGirl
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To: xsrdx
Far too much maturity and shooting talent for the perp to be young.

Generally speaking, yes, but I can see some kid who you know, perhaps got a little too into the 1st person shooter games, translating it over into real life. Or just read a few too many sniper stories and imagined up a cause to motivate himself. It doesn't take much training in the way of marksmanship. It takes more mental discipline to figure out where to be, to sit still, etc...to be patient and wait... but I can imagine an older teenager doing it, given the right mindset and a huge chip on his shoulder.

206 posted on 10/09/2002 6:38:53 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Terriergal
I tend to agree with the Navy Sniper I heard on TV yesterday saying you could just about train a monkey to do this kind of thing accurately.

Whatever - this untrained monkey killed 5 people with a single shot using a small caliber firearm, at various ranges and without detection.

Sounds to me like the "expert" was confusing the mechanical ability to make the shot - agreed, not difficult - with the ability to do it repeatedly, under pressure, and under a variety of circumstances, without even BEING OBSERVED. That's a pretty disciplined individual.

207 posted on 10/09/2002 6:38:57 AM PDT by xsrdx
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To: browardchad
possibly, but if the death card is seen as a symbol, then it could become I am God "'s hand of death". Very jihad.

t
208 posted on 10/09/2002 6:39:18 AM PDT by P7M13
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To: Prodigal Son
Michael's is an arts and crafts store. Actually, it's 90% crafts, 9% overpriced flimsy furniture, and 1% art supplies-I go there for the 1%, as there simply aren't enough art supply sources in west central Mo for me to be picky. The customers are IMO absolutely average : The racial breakdown seems to be in line with the population in the areas where the stores are located. The income level seems to be $25,000-75,000. Not upscale but not 'dollar store', either. Just completely average.
209 posted on 10/09/2002 6:39:21 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: NCLou
No I think the Tarot card is evidence he is an avid reader...he will be a avid computer user...he is very crafty...he is enjoying the NEWS and the FRUSTRATION of the police department...he will stop shooting for a few days...he is TAUNTING the police...people need to understand he is not interested in killing people AS MUCH as playing G-d and looking through a SCOPE and picking the person to "relay the message" with. The shot people are the "calling card" the RITUAL is the planning, picking the spot to fire from, waiting and finding the victim, all of that is more important to HIM than "pulling the trigger".

The end result isn't another dead or maimed person...it is the "reaction" from the police...

210 posted on 10/09/2002 6:41:27 AM PDT by antivenom
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Wink and a smile....no prob!
211 posted on 10/09/2002 6:42:03 AM PDT by antivenom
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To: antivenom
The end result isn't another dead or maimed person...it is the "reaction" from the police...

Exactly what I think. Chief Moose should not give press conferences every morning unless something happens. He is much too emotional for this every day. He seems to be a very caring individual but this guy is feeding off of that. This guy doesn not like cops is definately some home grown nutcase.

212 posted on 10/09/2002 6:44:18 AM PDT by areafiftyone
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To: Peach
Like buzzards to the kill, the Maryland politicians can't get enough face time out of this. Listening to McCluck-cluck-clucksy inflicting her pious sermon on the populace now. They can't keep their traps shut!!! I feel sorry for the professional (fed) LEOs that are trying to do their job with this pack of wolves.
213 posted on 10/09/2002 6:45:29 AM PDT by EverOnward
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To: Terriergal
Just thought of something regarding control of sound in this scenario, since people seem to be assuming the need to keep the noise partially outside a truck. What if there were two people, one being a driver and the other being a deaf person (shooter) inside a mostly-closed back of a truck, with only a small opening needed for aiming out. Then it wouldn't matter how loud it was, if there is no hearing left to damage. It might even make it easier to concentrate, for all I know.
214 posted on 10/09/2002 6:46:06 AM PDT by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: EverOnward
Someone should tell her it's Chief Moose, not Chief Muse.
215 posted on 10/09/2002 6:46:31 AM PDT by relee
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There was some speculation earlier that the sniper was a college student, and was home with his parents all weekend. After this tarot card info, I think he might have spent the weekend at the Maryland Ren Fest.
216 posted on 10/09/2002 6:46:55 AM PDT by vollmond
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To: kaylar
The customers are IMO absolutely average.

Good description. I would add that the customers are also overwhelmingly women. Although, given the mix of victims I doubt this is significant.

217 posted on 10/09/2002 6:47:34 AM PDT by Lil'freeper
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
Fox News was mentioning that they only focused on the truck scenario because one happened to be there at the time. It might turn out that this guy doesn't even have a truck or wasn't even in the truck. They were saying that the police have no proof that this guy was in a truck.
218 posted on 10/09/2002 6:47:51 AM PDT by areafiftyone
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To: YoungKentuckyConservative
the plane crash after September 11th off as an accident where an ENGINE just decided to fall off a plane.

Get your facts straight - it was the plane's *tail* that experienced some sort of structural failure and 'fell off' ...

219 posted on 10/09/2002 6:48:03 AM PDT by _Jim
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To: P7M13
Boy, people are desperate for this guy to be a Muslim Terrorist.

As noted by a previous poster, claiming YOU are God is really, really, really, really, really, really, REALLY sacriligeous in Islam, more so even than in traditional Christianity. They even consider the whole Father/Son/Holy Spirit thing in most forms of Christianity to be pretty pagan and suspect; Islam is about THE most Monotheistic religion there is, and the absolute MOST important tenet is "There is NO God BUT God."

Of course, if you REALLY want to believe something you can spin it either way; we've got people (absurdly) trying to claim a Tarot Card with "I am God" on it is consistent with an Islamic terrorist, and then people claiming that, because it's SO inconsistent with a Muslim terrorist, that it's the perfect deception.


If one thinks over the history of terrorism, deliberately going out of one's way trying to make it look like it ISN'T terrorism or is done by someone else is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, rare.
220 posted on 10/09/2002 6:49:24 AM PDT by John H K
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To: Terriergal; Peach
I did a search on "Muslim Tarot" on Google and found: http://skepdic.com/tarot.html

"The oldest playing cards date back to tenth century China, but the four suits of tarot and modern playing cards probably originated with a fourteenth century Muslim deck."

Muslim and Tarot are not necessarily mutually exclusive terms.
221 posted on 10/09/2002 6:49:37 AM PDT by theophilusscribe
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To: areafiftyone
They look like a random sampling of MontCo. Or just about anywhere else in the DC suburbs, except certain parts of PGCo (which are virtually all of central African ancestry).
222 posted on 10/09/2002 6:49:53 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
...other being a deaf person (shooter)...

Another Gallaudet University student murderer?

223 posted on 10/09/2002 6:50:05 AM PDT by relee
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To: NCLou; Peach
re: hoping the sniper will come forward and tip the police off

I don't know. That seems awfully conspicuous to me. I can't imagine a person with this methodology falling for something that simple. Snipers are supposed to be thinking one step ahead of the other 'snipers' all the time. Each one trying to lure the other out or intercept the other, and present a shot. The cops could get lucky, I mean, it's *possible* but I just highly doubt it.

The thing that strikes me oddly about this whole thing is the seeming randomness of his victims. A real sniper takes out valuable targets, not wanting to give away his carefully planned out position on the lowest ranking members of the enemy, but rather on higher ranking officers or perhaps machine gunners, etc. - they are valuable in depleting the enemy's morale. That's what I'm trying to figure out... what twisted 'value' or goal is this guy going for, in taking people out? How can he tell, by picking off civilians from a distance, that they aren't in the group he is 'fighting for?'

Yes, I'm trying to profile him myself. I'm convinced the people aren't 'random' targets though they may appear so on the surface... it would seem to me that he must have a method to his madness.

I also tend to think he might want eventually to be found so he can make his political statement. Otherwise he wouldn't be so stupid as to pick off so many people in such a short time.

224 posted on 10/09/2002 6:50:22 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: antivenom
No I think the Tarot card is evidence he is an avid reader...he will be a avid computer user...he is very crafty
Could you imagine the circus if it was a "Magic" card instead of a Tarot card? Ecccch.
225 posted on 10/09/2002 6:51:01 AM PDT by John H K
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To: areafiftyone
has a grudge against the cops

And one of his victims is the son of a retired Montgomery County police officer. Coincidence?

226 posted on 10/09/2002 6:51:35 AM PDT by twigs
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To: Merovingian
Playstation game

Which game would that be?

227 posted on 10/09/2002 6:52:23 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: kaylar; ZinGirl
Thanks for the info on Michael's. I don't know, I think it's not useful to try to make connections out of everything. I know a lot of people enjoy doing it and there's nothing wrong with it, but I would be more interested in seeing what sort of places the victims were shot from. I mean, if you're planning on setting up and waiting for a random target you'll need to be concealed in some fashion- whether hidden in a group of trees or inside a vehicle. If he was using wooded cover to shoot from, I would imagine he picked his sites because they offered him the best possibility of making a shot and getting away- not because he knew the people he was shooting shopped at any particular store. Ditto the cemetary- there must have been a conveniant place to shoot from and that's why he used it.

It had crossed my mind that perhaps he had actually thought he was going to have to shoot it out with police that first day and that's why he took as many targets as he could- he figured he would go down in a blaze of glory. Maybe he was amazed he got away afterwards and spent the weekend soaking it all in. He's sitting there watching the news, eating potato chips, replaying the kills in his mind and enjoying how he's suddenly a superstar. Then he decides to get back to it- this time one target at the time- to see how long he can keep the area living in fear.

228 posted on 10/09/2002 6:52:44 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: John H K
Just curious....how come you are really, really, really, really, really desperate for this to NOT be a muslim terrorist?
229 posted on 10/09/2002 6:53:38 AM PDT by EnquiringMind
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To: Prodigal Son
What's all this I keep hearing about Michael's? I take it's a store in America?

It's a chain of sewing, arts & crafts supplies stores with numerous locations in the "mid-atlantic" States. They're quite common in Maryland and Virginia, but not as common as Wal*Mart. Their clientele is mostly middle aged women and schoolchildren. And the odd occasional Bustard.

230 posted on 10/09/2002 6:54:27 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: Hank Kerchief
it was his brother, not his mother.
231 posted on 10/09/2002 6:55:23 AM PDT by dmz
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To: Terriergal
This one:

http://www.us.playstation.com/games/SCUS-97134.asp

232 posted on 10/09/2002 6:56:09 AM PDT by Merovingian
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
A .223 isn't that loud I don't think (having never shot one) - I mean, not like a .308 or a shotgun or anything. It's only slightly bigger than a .22. A good set of earplugs and/or shooting earmuffs inside of a truck would probably be quite effective in protecting hearing. And shooting out of a small window I imagine would do quite a bit toward sound suppression, not to mention flash (which isn't going to be too visible in daylight anyway), as long as the muzzle is inside of the vehicle.

However in the latest 'tarot card' story they seem to have said they found a flattened area of grass where the perp probably lay in wait for his victim.

233 posted on 10/09/2002 6:57:20 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: John H K
John, I agree with you. However, my first thought was/is of a psychotic muslim. And him imagining that he is the hand of God dealing death to the infidels. As to an organized terrorist attack, I doubt that is the case. We have no problem believing that "christians" can become psychotic and execute people for their "god".

And yes, I am "desperate" for this guy to be other than a white good ole boy redneck with a rebel flag on the back window of his pickup truck. LOL

t
234 posted on 10/09/2002 6:58:06 AM PDT by P7M13
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To: antivenom
Excellent thought. The mapping thing intrigues me. Here's why:

Yesterday, looking at the locations, #7 was far away, and then 8 was closer in, but still further out from the first ones. I thought that he had decided to expand his base of operations, both to widen the terror and to get out from under the most intense scrutiny. I speculated that when he did #7, something spooked him, something happened as a result of him being so far from his most familiar area. Maybe he got lost, maybe traffic was worse than expected, something.

So for the next one, he moved back into more familiar territory.

Now, if I lived in the area, if would run Yahoo driving directions from a site near the first shootings, assuming that this is close to his base of operations, to the site of #7. Then I would drive it, and see if the directions matched up, or whether the average person might have gotten lost trying to use them (you know how sometimes they are not exactly accurate- street name's been changed or something).

It seems incomprehensible to me that he would not drive it first to make sure he knew it, but as you know these guys can feel very superior, maybe he thought he was getting so good he would be ok. And then he ended up the wrong way on a one way street or something. Enough to scare him back closer to home.

Another thought: have they definitively linked that September shooting to this yet? If not, that may explain why so many shootings in such a short period of time. That was what was most baffling to me, normally I wouldn't expect such an organized killer to risk so many attacks in such a short period of time, without taking time to enjoy his work.

But if the earlier attack was his first, maybe he was disappointed in his coverage. Maybe he even left a note that was never found. That would mean that in his quest to make a big publicity splash, he knew he would have to do something "special", and this is why so many shooting in such a short period.

I think we will see a lull eventually, and then see it start up. These guys truly enjoy what they do, and I think he is going to want to take some time to enjoy it, watch the coverage, discuss it with people on the street, call in some tips, maybe even send some letters.

Then, just when things seem to be calming down and he's off the top page, he will start again. I bet it will be less frequent, I think he has made his initial splash, and now he will just want to do enough to keep himself top of mind. A killing every other week would more than do that.
235 posted on 10/09/2002 6:59:50 AM PDT by NCLou
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To: twigs
Chief Moose is still answering reporters questions.

Q. Releasing the tarot card information can help locate the killer. Why didn't you release the information?

A. As the Senators (Barbara Mikulski and Paul Sarbanes) just said, all of the resources of the Federal Government are working on this case, advising me, and they (federal advisors) think I released the correct information.

236 posted on 10/09/2002 7:00:44 AM PDT by relee
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To: Peach
I didn't realize until today that FR has a lot of frustrated FBI types logging on. I love these theories. Reverse pentagram? LOL.

Clarisse, are you there Clarisse?
237 posted on 10/09/2002 7:01:16 AM PDT by kinghorse
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To: Peach
will authorize an investigation to see who leaked info.

How about launching an investigation to who's doing the shooting. At least call the Boulder CO Police in on this.

238 posted on 10/09/2002 7:02:06 AM PDT by oyez
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To: ArrogantBustard
Michaels is a national chain. I think they have stores in Canada as well. Check www.Michaels.com.
239 posted on 10/09/2002 7:02:29 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: John H K
I would like to once more point out that there is NO CONFIRMATION OF THE TAROT CARD STORY BY ANY POLICE OFFICIAL This may have changed since I last made this point if so please tell me when and where this has changed. Until the story is confirmed you may well be speculating on a false premise.
240 posted on 10/09/2002 7:02:34 AM PDT by harpseal
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To: Terriergal
I'm getting tired of hearing people (even Hannity) saying how it takes "years of training" to be this "good

I didn't say that I thought it takes years of training. I do think it takes a degree ruthless training -- the type of training inspired by hate -- to perpetrate an evil act such as this.

241 posted on 10/09/2002 7:02:46 AM PDT by freeperfromnj
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To: nicmarlo
"Especially channel 9....."

I like the moose however, for all is griping, he seemed to be having a pleasant little conversation with Joe Johns (NBC) walking away from a press conference in a clip on the news last night... Selective anger?

242 posted on 10/09/2002 7:02:48 AM PDT by Hatteras
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To: EnquiringMind
It just doesn't add up to being a muslim terrorist. This is too much like alot of sniper serial killers that have happened before in other states. New York had a few in its time.

TYPES OF SERIAL KILLERS

1. Visionary Motive Type This type is considered insane or psychotic. They often hear voices in their head telling them to commit the crime. They may also see visions.

2. Mission-Oriented Type This type displays no psychosis to the outside world, while on the inside the killer has a need to rid the outside world of what he considers immoral or unworthy. This type of killer will select a certain group of individuals to kill (prostitutes, young women, gay men, etc.)

3. Thrill-Oriented Type This type is in it for the fun. This killer gets a high from killing. He is very sadistic and kills for excitement.

4. Lust Killer This type is a sexual killer, and kills for the pure turn-on. The amount of pleasure the killer derives depends on how much they torture their victim. The more heinous the torture, the more aroused they become. This type is in touch with reality.

I would say he is either 1,2 or 3. Only time will tell what kind he is.

243 posted on 10/09/2002 7:03:11 AM PDT by areafiftyone
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To: DonQ
But, one odd thing, one victim in Maryland and the one in Virginia were each shot at shopping centers with a "Michael's" art supply store.

I had a thought this morning that the guy's name was Michael.

244 posted on 10/09/2002 7:03:31 AM PDT by T. P. Pole
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To: Peach; SauronOfMordor
Yes, great read!
245 posted on 10/09/2002 7:03:36 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Prodigal Son; antivenom
It had crossed my mind that perhaps he had actually thought he was going to have to shoot it out with police that first day and that's why he took as many targets as he could- he figured he would go down in a blaze of glory.

Interesting...something to ponder.

FWIW....as far as looking for a 'safe' place to shoot from, there are a kazillion group-o'-trees areas around. Literally. I'm beginning to wonder if it's more than a coincidence that the areas just happen to be near a Michael's in two instances and the 'gate of heaven' in two instances. He/she/it had lots of places to choose from if he's just looking for a group of trees in which he can hide.

246 posted on 10/09/2002 7:03:52 AM PDT by ZinGirl
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To: Cyrano
Check out the link in post #14 - good read.
247 posted on 10/09/2002 7:06:28 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Tennessee_Bob; Crowcreek; Gun142; Son of Rooster; dorben; smoking camels; general_re; shaggy eel; ..
Check out the link in post #14 - good read.
248 posted on 10/09/2002 7:07:15 AM PDT by Terriergal
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To: areafiftyone
Yes sir...we have a "classic" serial killer...everything is absolutely predictable...the interesting part will be this...with SO MUCH coverage over the years of serial killers and their mistakes...he will be "wiser" and won't make some of the "classic" mistakes...chances are the Tarot card has tons of prints on it or absolutely NONE...the casing will likely have NO prints or a BUNCH of prints...he is a crafty character...he will be hard to slip up...

The ya'yas he is getting is watching Moose lose his cool...

249 posted on 10/09/2002 7:07:21 AM PDT by antivenom
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To: Prodigal Son
It had crossed my mind that perhaps he had actually thought he was going to have to shoot it out with police that first day and that's why he took as many targets as he could- he figured he would go down in a blaze of glory

I think shooting one victim at a time would get lost in the 'usual' DC area murders for awhile. Shooting so many victims in one day guaranteed him the attention he sought.

250 posted on 10/09/2002 7:07:46 AM PDT by relee
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