Davis/Spector Live Interview: OKC and Iraq

The big talker 1210 Philadelphia | 10/10/02 | Go Gordon

[glorygirl]

That's the whole point -- Abu Sayaf, Phillippine Liberation Army, Saddam, -- all connected.And probably Al-Quaeda, too.

[Lexington Green]

http://www.okcbombing.org/

[Robert_Paulson2]

Maybe this OKC business will serve as Specter's excuse for changing his mind and supporting war against Iraq.


"in a last minute surpise change of position, senator spector says that NOW he is far more positive that there is a direct Iraq connection between 9/11, Oklahoma city, and other acts of terror committed against america...."

[Shermy]

Was there any mention of the video from the Subway Sandwhich store in which McVeigh, Nichols and a third man were seen?

[glorygirl]

I did not hear the interview.

[glorygirl]

Might as well post it here, too. From a GMA interview with Stephen Jones on April 9,2001. It was linked on an earlier Specter thread.

GIBSON: And you think it's open to debate whether McVeigh himself drove the truck?

Mr. JONES: Yes, I do think it's open. I think Tim has promoted and self-aggrandized his own role in this for some psychological need here on the eve of his execution, but it's contrary to the evidence in the case, in my judgment.

GIBSON: What leads you to that conclusion? Did he tell you specifically that there was another person there, that he may not have driven the truck, or do you infer that from things he said?

Mr. JONES: Well, I think--first, he indicated that there were other people involved besides those that have previously been link in the public. Certainly, it can be inferred from things that he told us, but there were also a couple of times where he was more explicit and indicated a--a broader conspiracy and that people did things in the case that he now ascribes to himself.

GIBSON: When you say there are some things that even Tim McVeigh may not know, that, of course, raises the specter of some sort of--some sort of person who was controlling all of this, including McVeigh.

Mr. JONES: Yes, I think it does, and without going into specifics because they're pending judicial proceedings, Mr. McVeigh himself indicated to me on at least one occasion that there may be things that even he did not know.

Baseball Mom, did Specter talk about how this might influence his position on Iraq, and is he planning to take any new action?

[honway]

The following is an excellent summary of some of the evidence that was likely turned over to Senator Specter by Jayna Davis on Thursday
____________________________________________________________
The Middle Eastern connection to Oklahoma City

February 17, 2002

Ever since the country was savagely attacked on Sept. 11, the FBI has relentlessly investigated flight schools, airports, universities, mosques, Middle Eastern charities and Muslim communities, looking for connections to al-Qaida or other jihadist groups.

The only stone, it seems, the bureau hasn't been willing to turn over is its own investigation into the Oklahoma City bombing. Presumably, that's because the 1995 terrorist attack was the exclusive work of homegrown extremists Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Or was it?

Even though McVeigh went to his death denying any larger plot, serious questions remain unanswered. Did John Doe No. 2 ever exist? If so, who is he? If not, why did a second suspect initially emerge? What material or witnesses did the bureau use to create its three sketches of this alleged co-conspirator?

And then there's that troublesome FBI-authorized all-points bulletin issued just minutes after the truck bomb exploded. The alert sent members of Oklahoma City law enforcement searching for two Middle Eastern-looking men seen speeding away from the blast area in a brown Chevy pickup with tinted windows and a bug shield. The APB was abruptly cancelled several hours later without explanation.

The evidence that the Oklahoma City bombing involved a larger conspiracy, one with Middle Eastern connections, is compelling. And the trail begins with that mysterious pickup.

The week after the bombing, Jayna Davis, a veteran Oklahoma City reporter at KFOR-TV, got a tip, which began her investigation of a local property management company. Dr. Samir Khalil owns Samara Properties, and several former employees told Davis they had seen a pickup, matching the APB's description, at the office.

Davis discovered that Khalil, a Palestinian expatriate, had pled guilty in 1991 to several counts of insurance fraud and served eight months in a federal prison. Khalil's court papers indicated that the FBI investigated him for alleged connections to the Palestine Liberation Organization. But Khalil vehemently denied any PLO links. And he's never responded to my calls for comment.

Former Samara employees also told Davis that six months before the bombing, Khalil hired a group of Iraqi refugees to do painting and construction work. This group had allegedly fled Iraq to escape Saddam Hussein's regime. But a Samara employee told Davis he saw them cheering the terror attack and vowing to die in Saddam's service.

Davis then used surveillance camera to take pictures of these Iraqis. Eventually, she focused on one man, Hussain Alhussaini (also known as Al-Hussaini Hussain), who seemed to match the last FBI profile sketch and description of John Doe No. 2.

Over the next several months, she interviewed witnesses who said they saw McVeigh in the company of a Middle Eastern-looking man in the days and hours before the bombing. Using KFOR's photo line-up, they identified that individual as Alhussaini.

Perhaps the most intriguing statements she collected came from a host of staff members at a motel near downtown Oklahoma City. They reported seeing McVeigh with a number of Middle Eastern men at the site in the months preceding the bombing. Using KFOR's photos, those men were identified as Samara employees. Alhussaini was included in that group.

The motel witnesses also said they saw several of the Iraqis moving large barrels around in the back of an old white truck. The barrels, they alleged, emanated a strong smell of diesel fuel, one of the key ingredients used in the Oklahoma City bomb.

Davis also discovered that the mysterious brown Chevy pickup was impounded by the FBI on April 27, 1995. The pickup had been abandoned in an apartment building lot. According to the police report, the truck had been stripped of its license plate, inspection tag and all its vehicle identification numbers. It also was spray-painted yellow, but the original color was listed as brown. One resident at the complex told the FBI the driver was "clean-shaven, with an olive complexion, dark, wavy hair and broad shoulders," in his late 20s or early 30s and of Middle Eastern descent.

Davis also used a hidden camera to interview Lana Padilla, Terry Nichols' ex-wife, about Nichols' repeated trips to the Philippines, a hotbed for terrorist activity. "Tim bought Terry the first ticket for the Philippines," Padilla said. That trip occurred in 1989. His last visit came in November 1994.

Ramzi Yousef, the Iraqi convicted for masterminding the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and a plot to blow up U.S. airliners, operated out of Mindanao and Manila in the Philippines. Yousef received funding from Osama bin Laden. According to a motion filed by the McVeigh defense team, an American fitting Nichols' description met with Yousef in the Philippines in 1992 or 1993.

Davis eventually aired a number of pieces, taking care to disguise the Iraqi's identity. However, Alhussaini voluntarily stepped forward on June 15, 1995, to publicly claim that KFOR and Davis had labeled him as John Doe No. 2.

Alhussaini told Channel 9 in Oklahoma City he was living in fear. He claimed to be working at one of Khalil's properties when the bombing occurred. And he produced a handwritten time sheet as proof. The former Iraqi soldier also denied knowing McVeigh, and demanded a public apology from KFOR.

KFOR and Davis stood by their reports and countered with witnesses who contradicted Alhussaini's assertions, including the time sheet, which was labeled a fabrication. Alhussaini responded by filing a state civil libel suit. However, he withdrew the suit the day before a judge was scheduled to rule on KFOR's motion for summary judgment.

Meanwhile, Alhussaini's suit froze KFOR's coverage of the story. And Davis eventually quit after The New York Times bought the station and the investigation was stopped. The former reporter, who had collected 22 signed affidavits from the witnesses she interviewed, was called to testify before a state grand jury that examined the bombing in 1997. With the witnesses' permission, she gave the grand jury the affidavits.

Alhussaini then refiled his libel suit in federal court. Once again attorneys for KFOR and Davis filed for a dismissal. On Nov. 17, 1999, U.S. District Judge Tim Leonard granted their motion. In his ruling, Leonard stated that all the facts in Davis' report were either true or statements of opinion, and did not libel the plaintiff. Alhussaini then appealed the ruling. A hearing was held on Sept. 10; a decision is pending.

Alhussaini moved from Oklahoma City and was reportedly living in the Boston area. His lawyer declined to give me a phone number for his client.

According to 1997 medical records produced during his federal suit, Alhussaini said he had worked for a while at Boston's Logan Airport (where two of the planes were hijacked on Sept. 11). Quoting from those records, Alhussaini first told his psychiatrist that he had quit his airport job because, "If anything happens there, I will be a suspect." However, he later told his doctor that he "wanted to look for another job because he feels unsafe in the environment he works in, the airport, given the recent events involving his being previously suspected of involvement in the Oklahoma bombing."

Alhussaini's specific job at the airport was never identified. I contacted the Massachusetts Port Authority, which oversees Logan, to obtain dates of employment. A spokesperson said the agency would not release any information.

During the course of her investigation, Davis made contact with Yossef Bodansky, executive director of the 13-year-old Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare. Bodansky told Davis the task force had warned of an impending Islamic-sponsored terrorist attack in America's heartland back in 1995.

On Feb. 27, 1995, the task force had issued its first confidential warning to federal agencies that Islamic terrorists "may soon strike Washington D.C., specifically the Capitol and the White House." This confidential alert, which he said was quietly distributed to federal intelligence agencies and law enforcement, claimed the attacks were to begin after March 21, 1995.

"Striking inside the U.S. is presently a high priority for Iran," stated the warning. The alert also stated that upcoming terrorist strikes might be directed against "airports, airlines and telephone systems." In light of Sept. 11, it was a telling note.

On March 3, 1995, the task force issued an update. This "super-sensitive" alert stated there was a "greater likelihood the terrorists would strike at the heart of the U.S." Bodansky also told Davis that after the truck bombing, he reviewed intelligence data that confirmed, "Oklahoma City was on the list of potential targets."

Bodansky gave Davis copies of the task force's original alert and some of his confidential notes detailing the update and Oklahoma City's target status. His material notes an independent warning from Israeli intelligence a month before the bombing. The warning indicated a terrorist attack was impending and that "lilly whites" would be activated. Lilly whites, Bodansky writes, were people without any background or police records who would not be suspected members of a terrorist group.

Now President Bush has labeled Iran, Iraq and North Korea an "axis of evil." And hyperbole aside, details of Iran's alleged involvement in terrorism were included in last summer's U.S. Department of Justice indictment issued in connection with the Khobar Towers attack in Saudi Arabia. Moreover, Bodansky told me that Iran and Iraq agreed to cooperate in terrorist operations against the West.

Over the past seven months, I reviewed all of Davis' documents, including the material she got from Bodansky. I also conducted my own follow-up interviews and found no holes in her investigation. As for Davis, she's tried twice to give her material to the FBI.

According to her attorney Tim McCoy, Department of Justice attorneys prosecuting Nichols rejected Davis' documents in 1997 because they didn't want more material to turn over to the defense. McCoy testified to this at a recent hearing in Nichols' state murder case.

In 1999, former FBI agent Dan Vogel accepted the material, but he said that higher-ups later rejected it because the agency questioned Davis' ownership rights.

I called the bureau but it declined to explain this strange turn of events. Perhaps if Vogel had been allowed to testify at a recent hearing in Nichols' Oklahoma murder trial, details would have been forthcoming. But the Justice Department refused to let him take the stand.

Is this a case of FBI incompetence, political interference or the Justice Department's desire not to complicate a seemingly open-and-shut case against McVeigh and Nichols? I don't know.

I do know that too many questions remain unanswered. And I wonder: If the FBI had followed through on these leads, might agents have turned up links to sleeper cells or the network that planned the Sept. 11 massacre?

---

Crogan is a free-lance writer and investigative reporter based in Los Angeles. His work has appeared in Newsweek , Time , the Los Angeles Times and other publications. His e-mail address is jc1invrep@worldnet.att.net

[honway]

From the article in #47

Over the past seven months, I reviewed all of Davis' documents, including the material she got from Bodansky. I also conducted my own follow-up interviews and found no holes in her investigation. As for Davis, she's tried twice to give her material to the FBI.

[honway]

Link

A Pentagon civilian official has provided a formal affidavit stating that the Pentagon official viewed a surveillance tape video showing a Ryder truck and its occupants moments before it was used to bomb the Murrah Federal Building in OKC on April 19, 1995. The official further states that the Pentagon official saw in the video a Middle Eastern man closely resembling the Iraqi and McVeigh accomplice, Al Hussaini, exiting the Ryder truck when it was parked in front of the Murrah Building.

A copy of the official's affidavit is in the possession of Chicago attorney David Schippers, the attorney for the House Managers during the Clinton impeachment proceedings

[honway]

McVeigh Trial Transcripts

Daina Bradley - Direct

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And so you looked out the window, and what did you see?

A. I seen the yellow Ryder truck drive up.

Q. And what did you think when you saw the Ryder truck pull up into the -- pull up?

A. That it was very unusual that -- downtown, they do not allow moving trucks as far as those kind of vehicles being parked down in that area.

Q. Okay. And did the -- what did the truck do when you saw it?

A. It -- they stopped.

Q. Did it park?

A. Yes. It parked.

Q. Okay. And did you see anything else at that time or did you continue your conversation with your mother?

A. I went back and I looked up and I started talking to my mother again and I looked back out. I seen two men get out of the truck.

[honway]

News paper article on PRIOR WARNING on March 22,1995

The New Jersey Star-Ledger Date: 1995/03/22 Wednesday Page: Section: NEWS Edition:

LAWMEN GET WARNING OF PLOT ON U.S. TARGETS

ROBERT RUDOLPH

U.S. law enforcement authorities have obtained information that Islamic terrorists may be planning suicide attacks against federal courthouses and government installations in the United States.

The attacks, it is feared, would be designed to attract worldwide press attention through the murder of innocent victims.

The Star-Ledger has learned that U.S. law enforcement officials have received a warning that a ''fatwa,'' a religious ruling similar to the death sentence targeting author Salman Rushdie, has been issued against federal authorities as a result of an incident during the trial last year of four persons in the bombing on the World Trade Center in New York.

The disclosure was made in a confidential memorandum issued by the U.S. Marshals Service in Washington calling for stepped-up security at federal facilities throughout the nation.

The ''fatwa'' was allegedly sanctioned by an unidentified Islamic Iman, or holy man, in retaliation for what was perceived as a religious ''insult'' against Islamic fundamentalists by federal law enforcement officers. According to the memo, the information about the threat was obtained from an unidentified ''informed source'' who said the death sentence was specifically directed against U.S. Marshals Service personnel.

The informant reported that the threat was issued because deputy U.S. Marshals allegedly ''insulted'' Islam ''by stepping on a copy of the Koran,'' the Islamic holy book, during a scuffle with several prisoners convicted in the World Trade Center bombing.

The Marshals Service memo said the agency believes that ''there is sufficient threat potential to request that a heightened level of security awareness and caution be implemented at all Marshals Service-protected facilities nationwide.''

Government sources say authorities in New Jersey are taking the danger seriously and have increased security at key federal facilities in the state, including all federal courthouses.

The memo, issued by Eduardo Gonzalez, director of the U.S. Marshals Service, warns that attacks may be designed to ''target as many victims as possible and draw as much media coverage as possible'' to the fundamentalist cause.

For educational and discussion purposes

[honway]

Link

"A scant two weeks after his arrival in the United States, Murad was listening to the radio when a news report came on the air announcing that the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been bombed. Lt. Philip Rojas, a prison guard, asked Murad what he thought and found his response so startling that he informed his superiors. They, in turn, called the FBI.

"Special Agents Francis J. Pellegrino and Brian G. Parr arrived later that morning, within hours after the Oklahoma City blast. 'Murad responded to the guard's question by stating that the Liberation Army was responsible for the bombing,' they reported in a witness report [No. 302]. 'A short time later, Murad passed a note to the guard, again claiming that the Liberation Army was responsible for the bombing in Oklahoma City.'"

[honway]

From a Jayna Davis interview 6-27-02 on the Jim Quinn show

From the interview, Jayna Davis:

"I had in my possession prior warning documents that I was given six years ago by the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare which validated all the witness testimony in Oklahoma City..."

"March Third, 1995 the Director of the Congressional Task Force, Mr. Yosseff Bodansky, issued an updated warning stating that the terrorists now plan to strike at, and I am quoting, "the heart of the U.S." Did that mean Oklahoma City? Yes it did. Twelve cities were on the target list because of the radical Islamic groups and terrorist networks operating in those cities. Oklahoma City was definately on the list."

"I am going to quote directly from an intelligence report issued by Yossef Bodansky.'This meant Oklahoma City would have been on the short list of objectives because of the known prominence of local Islamic networks operating within Oklahoma City'."

"Now, when Bodansky issued this prior warning, he didn't do this because he had a little bit of information over a few weeks. He did this after 18 months of intelligence gathering from numerous sources in numerous Middle Eastern countries and they were all coming back with the same information and there was corroborating information coming from terrorist conferences that took place in the Fall of '94 and the Spring of '95 in which Tehran, the captital of Iran, indicated an overriding desire to strike inside the borders of the great Satan..."

[FReepaholic]

>>...U.S. law enforcement authorities have obtained information that Islamic terrorists may be planning suicide attacks against federal courthouses and government installations in the United States...<<

I've often wondered if the US Government hasn't DELIBERATELY suppressed the Middle East connection in order to "take away their thunder" and not give them the satisfaction of public recognition of their act.

[honway]

I think that is definately one possible explanation.

[Shermy]

The mystery of John Doe No. 2

"June 9, 2001 | The main thing Joann Van Buren says she remembers about Timothy McVeigh is the $50 bill he wanted her to break. That, and the two men who accompanied him.

One day before he tore a hole in the nation's psyche with the bomb that destroyed Oklahoma City's Murrah Federal Building, McVeigh, Van Buren says, pulled up to the little Subway sandwich shop where she worked in Junction City, Kansas, driving the yellow Ryder truck that would contain the bomb.

Van Buren didn't pay any particular attention to them at first. Another clerk waited on the men, but when they tried to pay for their meal with a large bill, she took notice.

"As soon as the $50 bill came up, I had to go to the safe to get the change," says Van Buren today. "And when I gave them the change and they got their sandwiches, I remember them going back over to the corner, sitting down. And when they left, I remember three people getting into the truck. There were three people at the table."

The clerks she worked with later told FBI agents that two of the men matched the descriptions of McVeigh and his cohort, Terry Nichols. The third was a shorter, dark-haired and muscular man with an olive complexion: a perfect fit for the figure destined to be known as John Doe 2.

Luckily, the Subway shop actually had a video camera recording that day's events. When Van Buren contacted the FBI, agents interviewed everyone working in the shop on April 18. And when they were done, they confiscated the video recorded that day.

But if that tape showed a third co-conspirator with McVeigh and Nichols, no one outside the FBI can say. No one beyond the agency ever saw it. In the waning days of Nichols' trial, his defense attorneys discovered the details of Van Buren's story -- which had only been described in generic terms in the FBI's report, omitting her contention that two men accompanied McVeigh -- along with information contained in some 43,000 other "lead sheets" that the FBI until then had failed to turn over to them.

Michael Tigar, who led the Nichols defense, tried in 1999 to use the FBI's failures to produce all relevant documents to gain a new trial for his client. But U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch refused, saying the withheld material would not have altered the trial's outcome....."

_________

Did Ms. Davis ever interview Ms. Van Buren? And has anyone seen this tape by now, outside of the FBI?

[Shermy]

Ms. Van Buren in Junction City, Kansas:

The third was a shorter, dark-haired and muscular man with an olive complexion: a perfect fit for the figure destined to be known as John Doe 2.

And from your post # 47:

One resident at the complex told the FBI the driver was "clean-shaven, with an olive complexion, dark, wavy hair and broad shoulders," in his late 20s or early 30s and of Middle Eastern descent.

Quite a "coincidence."

[GirlShortstop]

FYI, Senator Specter said before leaving that a transcript of today's interview would be typed-up... I will keep an eye out for that information; hope all interested will as well.

[nini]

Please include me on that list to get the transcript.
thanks

[dixiechick2000]

"...do you remember who the FR poster was who so carefully followed the Jana Davis issue regarding sightings of middle eastern men..."

That would be OKCSubmariner. He's been banned...
and that's a dang shame.