Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Evidence Disproving Evolution
myself | 10/11/02 | gore3000

Posted on 10/11/2002 9:02:01 PM PDT by gore3000

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 981-984 next last
To: gore3000
Very well, then. Feel free to alter my original statement to read: "...genetic drift under natural selection pressures." I had assumed that I could leave the caveat unspoken, but I forgot in that moment that I'm debating with an obscurantist.
221 posted on 10/12/2002 4:59:37 PM PDT by AntiGuv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 210 | View Replies]

To: Agamemnon
Given the rate of solar burn currently observed, how far back can one go in time before the amount of fuel that the sun has to consume makes the sun so large that the earth itself is uninhabitable by even the heartiest of spore forming creatures? The most generous projections allow for no more than 100,000 years, and more likely 10,000 years.

So you creationists are so wedded to your Biblical literalism that now you reject all of astrononomy as well as one of the most obviously true tenets of biology? Your argument was made 300 years ago. At that time it was not asinine, as it was widely assumed the Sun burned like coal. Now we know of fusion.

And of course, the size of the Sun has not been been a topic with widely varying answers at least since shortly after it was accepted that the Earth went around it.

What's next in your fantasy universe, a flat Earth?

222 posted on 10/12/2002 5:03:35 PM PDT by DWPittelli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 209 | View Replies]

To: gore3000
If evolution is true, then life has no purpose. The lowest and basest instincts are therefore excusable.

Arguably, the absence of God makes morality obsolete, although plenty of atheist philosophers argue otherwise, and plenty of non-raping and non-killing atheists show otherwise in practise. Even if one accepts that we need God to define morality absolutely, that does not mean we need an ultra-meddling God who labored over the design of each species, and labored to create a false record of sedimentation, fossilization, etc.

223 posted on 10/12/2002 5:07:42 PM PDT by DWPittelli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: gore3000
If evolution is true, then life has no purpose... Even mass murder as a form of 'helping' natural selection becomes viable. One must doubt if any society can survive under such terms. One must doubt if any species can survive which acts in such a way. For the above is a prescription for destruction not for creation. What man needs is hope, not despair in order to better himself and evolution only provides despair.

Since you here present utilitarian grounds for traditional morality, you yourself show that even an atheistic utilitarian can accept that your morality is of benefit to society. (And individuals are always apt to see benefit in following the morality of any society with a system of justice, formal or informal.)

BTW, I don't know a lot of people who suffer from "despair," and I doubt very much that despair or major depression or any such thing correlates much one way or the other with belief in evolution.

224 posted on 10/12/2002 5:13:40 PM PDT by DWPittelli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: DWPittelli
What's next in your fantasy universe, a flat Earth?

Possible, but not likely. People like these are into control, so the world would made up of the "Believers" and the imprisoned.

The infidels in prison will be doomed to Perdition, while the Creationists will receive their reward in Paradise of 79 virgin monkeys.

225 posted on 10/12/2002 5:18:04 PM PDT by elbucko
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 222 | View Replies]

To: Agamemnon
Ask youself the probability that the essential oxygen transporting protein Cytochrome C (104 amino acid...) could spontaneously come into being. That figure is a chance of 1 in 20 to the 104th power. Now give it a reason to come into being in what evolutionists speculate earlier on was an anaerobic primordial soup.

There was no reason. And of course it didn't. If you set up your own straw man, in this case, an unreasonably unlikely evolutionary sequence, you will find it easy to knock down. Proving nothing.

226 posted on 10/12/2002 5:18:14 PM PDT by DWPittelli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 209 | View Replies]

To: Agamemnon
I can make the argument that the sun, earth, and the rest of the universe are themselves closed systems in that their supplies of energy are limited to the amount of fuel they have left to burn

Yes, but if you include the Sun, then order in the sytem is decreasing. While life on Earth may be morally of great significance, its physical significance in thermodynamic terms is pretty muich defined by its mass: much less than that consumed in the Sun.

227 posted on 10/12/2002 5:21:46 PM PDT by DWPittelli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 209 | View Replies]

To: nanrod
there is less genetic variation in the entire human race than in typical small groups of African monkeys. That says that modern humans are either all descendants of a handful of survivors of some catastrophe like the flood in the bible, or all descendants of some small group of people such as is described in the stories of Adam and Eve.

Yes, "Studies of [the variations in] human DNA from populations around the world suggests a common African ancestry living some 200,000 years ago."

So if you give the studies credence, you are implicitly accepting 200,000 years, not 6,000 years, as the date of the bottleneck.

Of course, if you accept these studies' validity, you must also accept, for exactly the same reason, that humans and chimps split off about 6 million years ago.

Also, if you accept these studies, it's clear that the bottleneck occurred in Africa -- not in the Holy Land.

Finally, there are non-miraculous, non-flood explanations for the bottleneck. Namely, that the modern humans that came out of Africa outcompeted the Neanderthals.

228 posted on 10/12/2002 5:32:26 PM PDT by DWPittelli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 203 | View Replies]

To: Thommas
if my aunt woulda had balls, perhaps she woulda been my uncle. I suppose you have faith that such a simpler organism existed in the past and was easier to spontaneously generate than a more complex one?

Let me get this straight. We all know that life originated on at least one occasion in the universe.

Evolutionists say that the likeliest explanation is that life originated based on the same laws of chemistry and physics that we see in everyday existence. But Evolutionists do not claim to know the exact structural-chemical pathway by which life originated.

Creationists say that the likeliest explanation is that God created the life through magical processes which have never been shown to exist -- a literal Deus ex Machina.. But they know based on their readings of ancient religious literature. Of course, most of them are not willing to stick to any falsifiable claims (like, that the Earth is 6,000 years old, or any particular age) even while they nit-pick the slightest variation in evolutionary theory.

And yet Creationists say that what Evolutionists are proposing is unlikely, and that Evolutionists have failed to show their process?

229 posted on 10/12/2002 5:43:21 PM PDT by DWPittelli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies]

To: FastCoyote
I think you were aiming somewhere else. I am a famous theistic evo (at least at home).
230 posted on 10/12/2002 6:04:59 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Eaker
No. I'm not actually angry at all. Although I'm still confused at why gore3000 is so anti-science. I've previously accused him of having a financial interest in fleecing gullible Christians, like medved did, but I didn't get an answer.

Like your icon.

231 posted on 10/12/2002 6:12:53 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: Ahban
Sorry I took so long. I went through the article in detail and I still have the same opinion.

The short version is that you can't make a scientific theory by postulating the Designer, and then filtering evidence, keeping what fits and throwing out what doesn't. In grade school this sometimes passes for science, but it's not working.

I think it makes perfectly fine theology. In fact, I like it as theology. I think God makes everything work anyway.

There were other examples in the article that I thought were bad science, but the "Designer postulate" crashes the whole theory as science. It needs a lot of work to make it science. I thought a little about an approach but couldn't make it work.

There's still an opportunity for someone. ;)

232 posted on 10/12/2002 6:18:41 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: <1/1,000,000th%; Junior; VadeRetro; betty boop
With all this anti-evolution chatter, I thought I'd present what seems to be an example of natural selection in action today. A whole bunch of newly-discovered frog species seem to be well-adapted to surving the environmental problems that are killing off their cousins.
The majority of these lay eggs that undergo what is known as terrestrial direct development. In this process, the eggs incubate on land before the frogs hatch as miniature adults, skipping the tadpole stage completely. Such growth could help explain why these animals have persisted, the scientists suggest, because many of the factors thought to be responsible for the decline of frog populations are particularly dangerous to water-based young.
Scientists Spy Dozens of New Frog Species in Sri Lanka.
No magic involved. Just mutation, environmental changes, and good old natural selection.
233 posted on 10/12/2002 6:30:18 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 231 | View Replies]

To: elbucko
I now understand the fear the Left has of conservatives. I felt a cold fear this AM as I contemplated the inquisitional zeal at which the Creationist pursued their ideology.

Oh, spare us, elbucko. The scientific basis of Darwinism is at issue, not Creationism. If you can't hold your own here, by all means bow out, but try to do so gracefully.

234 posted on 10/12/2002 6:34:49 PM PDT by Phaedrus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
Sri Lankan frogs have learned how to skip the tadpole stage and are thus adaptively radiating where other frog species were dying off a decade before. Hmmmmm.

But THAT DOESN'T MEAN ... blah blah blah! </creation_mode>

235 posted on 10/12/2002 6:36:42 PM PDT by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
Cool.
236 posted on 10/12/2002 6:38:23 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies]

To: Phaedrus
Oh, spare us, elbucko. The scientific basis of Darwinism is at issue, not Creationism. If you can't hold your own here, by all means bow out, but try to do so gracefully.

Not having a real horse to put in to make a race, Phaedrus noted that the evolution horse is "too musclebound."

237 posted on 10/12/2002 6:38:45 PM PDT by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 234 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
But THAT DOESN'T MEAN ... blah blah blah!

I guess a frog example is just too perfect a setup for being labeled slime.

238 posted on 10/12/2002 7:01:45 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 235 | View Replies]

To: betty boop
Darwin: brilliant scientist or crass eugenicist? One supposes his theory supports the notion of creating a master race. I gather Hitler thought so anyway.

Well, the evolutionists may laugh at the idea, but to me evil and the truth are not compatible. Man is better than that, he has the power to choose. He does not have to behave like a beast. If man chooses what is good, he will produce goodness, if he chooses to produce evil, he will produce destruction. It is in our hands what kind of world we will live in.

239 posted on 10/12/2002 7:07:10 PM PDT by gore3000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 216 | View Replies]

To: elbucko
The horrors of the 20th. Century have not been from evolution or religion. The horror was brought on by the morphing of a bogus system of economics, socialism into the state religions of Nazism and Communism.

Wrong, absolutely wrong. Evolution laid the philosophical foundations for both Nazism and Communism. It made scientific materialism respectable. It is the followers of Darwin who using his excuse of 'lower races', eugenics, and 'helping' natural selection, that killed more than 100 million totally innocent people.

240 posted on 10/12/2002 7:11:28 PM PDT by gore3000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 981-984 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson