NUTCASE OR TRAINED SNIPER?

Fiedor Report On the News #291 ^ | 10-13-02 | Doug Fiedor

[philetus]

"This guy (or guys) is no sniper."

I have to disagree. Maybe he is not a military trained sniper, but after his first kill,he was a sniper.

Shooting from 100 or 200 yards, with a scoped .223, a steady hand, and a good eye, is not hard.

Now, shooting from a vehicle, I`m finding hard to believe.
After 10 hits,I can't believe that not a single person has seen a rifle sticking out of a van window or out of the back, seen the puff of smoke from the shot.

The "white van" might be involved. Could be an accomplice
and the van may be a red herring to throw off the persuit.
If they stop the right white van, they won't find anything.

[toddst]

Accelerator rounds would be interesting. Not much they would find except the sabot. No marks on the bullet. What is the accuracy like with them? Seems I read it is pretty good.

I have worked with Accelerator rounds in .308 and their performance was quite good at 100, 200, 300 yards. My handloads using .223 ctgs. were no better.

For the most part Accelerator rounds are no longer available. Last time I checked only 30-30 ctgs. were still stocked. I was told that Remington was "encouraged" by the ATF to stop manufacture because the bullet comes out "clean" (no rifling marks.) Can't verify this, however.

[Lion Den Dan]

Accelerator rounds ****

Accuracy is hit and miss. Some rifles fair to good, some are very bad. They are not practical for this type of use and the sabot will be found and provide ample engraving.

[archy]

But even if I was a SEAL/DELTA/ etc.- What the hell would clue me in?

An individual that looks like another soldier/shooter/cop- a player- not necessarily a young man but probably so, or probably a young man with a young woman, with hard eyes and experience that shows in their faces. You remember those faces of the 09/11 hijackers, or the Palestinian suicide bombers, or of the LAX ElAl ticket counter shooter? They don't look like your typical librarian or school administrator, they're a hardier breed. So are ours, if you've ever been around young Marine officers or NCO, or tank sergeants...or other snipers. They can be very funny, happy, well-adjusted guys, but there is an undeniable seriousness of purpose about them that sometimes is on as bright as a light bulb- and just as obvious. If you're not close enough to spot the shooter, you may see a vehicle ease into a position that you'll klnow, because it's the one you'd use if YOU were going to take out a couple of grunts coming out of that nearby gas station or mall shop. If you were going to site one of your squad's crew-served weapons, you'd pick that spot for it- because it commands a target. A vehicle in such a location may be the sniper's mobile *hide*- or it may just be a motorist with vehicle trouble, or now, a cop with similar ideas. But you'd know.

And if it came to that, you might hear that pop of a 5,56 mm round fired from a distance, not at all loud unless it's quite close, or spot a component of the little black rifle you carried and know very personally from several years intimate personal familiarity with it. You might even be *lucky* and see a flash not unlike that of a flashbulb in the darkened interior of a nearby van or truck, and know instinctively what it is- and, a moment later, hear the flat snapping crack not of the rifle itself, but of a suoersonic bullet as it passes nearby objects...or over your head!... and leaves a sonic boom in its wake. You might even be good enough to count the *crack-thump* difference in time, as taught to artillery forward observers, snipers and certain other specialists. If you're that lucky, you'll have a pretty good idea of just how far away the shooter is, and in what direction,,,though you'll not likely be able to call in an airstrike or for mortar fire the way you used to deal with such things.

But in any event, you'll be hunting the sniper, whether you're armed with equal equipment, or lesser, or better or none at all. While invisible, you'll observe and destroy, and whether you fire a shot or not, the intelligence value of the information you collect, if acted upon by those who are supposed to, is what will really make things worse for that hostile trigger puller.

Best of all, you won't panic, and that seets an example. If he has managed to hit another victim, you'll have at kleast had the training to deal with such injuries if anything aty all can be done, and you may well have more experience at caring for those so injured than you ever really wanted to pick up. You may or may not be part of the *official team* dealing with the problem, but until they arrive and can offer better results than you can provide, it's your responsibility. And you have presumably dealt with responsibilities, large or small, before.

But whatever happened, scared though you may be [a Marine junior officer of my acquaintance calls it *concerned for his men*] you'll not panic or freeze doing nothing. You'll do something.

And General Patton once observed that a generally good if flawed plan executed immediately is better than a perfectly preparede one activated later. You'll take charge and move out, and suddenly, Mr Sniper is going to have some REAL problems, and is no longer in control of his surroundings and the situation. You may lean on your car horn, you may shoot a great many pistol-caliber holes in a white truck, or ram it with your own vehicle, if that's all ya' got. But you'll do something. And it will not be something the sniper wants to happen to him, though he may have planned for such a contingency. But once you do, he's going to be the one who's scared.

-archy-/-

[Squantos]

Mental note....ram known killers vehicle "first" then shoot driver full of holes if s/he resist's capture :o)

Stay Safe Archy.....good post . Thought provoking !

[archy]

Accellerator rounds would be interesting....what is the accuracy like with them?

I've shot saboted .224 bullets extensively in several of my .308 and .30-06 rifles; they're also available [or used to be] in the venerable .30-30 cartridge, though I have no experience with them in that round.

But they reach some 4000 feet per second, depending on barrel length [the .308/ 7,62 rifles I tried them in included a Remingtom M600 carbine with short barrel, a M98 Mauser rebarrelled by the Israelis to 7,62 NATO, a heavy-barrelled remington M700, and an L1A1 British FN-FAL semiauto...in which they worked just fine on semi. My .30-og rifles included an '03 Springfield, a Marlin 445 bolt action, and a National Match M1 Garand- in which they also worked fine on semi.

At the speeds they travel, the bullet virtually disintegrates upon hitting the slightest resistance- the back of a cardboard box hit by one resembles a shotgun pattern, with a neat .22 hole in front. The accuracy is quite good, with groups averaging around 4 inches from most of the weapons I tried them in, and around an inch and a half at 100 with the Garand, which is what I eventually picked to mostly run them in- the .308s became very difficult to find, and they're expensive, circa $25 per box of 20. I can get .308 ball and tracer much cheaper, and match ammo if the weapon is capable of delivering decent results with it.

Accellerators woulde not be my pick for such operations, and I don't think that's what he's using. But those holes in the window glass at his earliest attacks are quite similar to the results I had with the things in glass [among other things] from a fairly long-barrelled rifle: holes big enough to stick a thumb into, rather than the more usual pencil-sized .223 hole.

-archy-/-

[FITZ]

Even if you're packing a pistol, you're not going to be safe from this guy.

I think it would be safer if you have to be in an area away from witnesses to carry a camcorder and be obvious about it.

[Fred Mertz]

You got that right archy!

[archy]

Mental note: ram known killers vehicle "first"....

Good move, but if he/they are terrorists with Middle Easterm Moose-slum connections, I'd bet on a very loud noise and a big flash should anyone approach them in an effort to apprehend them. Mind you don't trigger such a surprise with a intended collision, and remember that it's quite possible that they could well be in the larger vehicle, likely larger than anything you may have available to ram them with.

Still, if they are carrying an explosive suicide device with them in the event of impending capture, it would be particularly neat if someone could put a Raufoos .50 into their demo package, whether carried in the truck or worn. There may not be much left of the perpetrators for interrogation or souvieners, however.

Don't forget your earmuffs! Could be noisy!

[Any bets that their death or capture will trigger the *next phase* of the attacks on the U.S.? How many shopping days 'till Christmas....]

-archy-/- -archy-/-

[Squantos]

IMO any pursuit by LEO FLEA or Leo Smith will as you state be interupted by some "lady" driving and getting "in the way" to allow the shooter to escape if this is an organized terrorist cell.

Possibility is high that the shooters E&E route has security on it to preclude such an attempt to capture. All what ifs aside I think it is goint to be futile to kill this guy as one more islamikazi will step up and take his place.

It is now an established fact that this method is NLT a car bomb in Israel for it's fear factor and disruption of day to day business as usual on the American Populace in the DC Metro Area........coming to a neighborhood near you soon no doubt......

Monkey See Monkey Do sort of thang !.

Ditto on the Raufaus HEI in the Barrett idea !!............:o) Stay Safe !

[Dan Day]

Even if you're packing a pistol, you're not going to be safe from this guy. One shot, one kill. You won't even know what hit you.

If you're his next "150 yard victim", you're probably right.

What you're missing, however, is that the chosen victim isn't the only person in the area -- the shooter chooses busy urban areas to do his sniping.

Sooner or later, an armed bystander is going to be close enough to where the perp lays in wait to pop him as he sets up for a shot, or just after he fires and calls attention to himself by the sound of the shot.

Then, an armed civilian could end his spree forever. As opposed to a disarmed civilian, who could at best stand there and look stupid while the shooter gets away (or notices the bystander and eliminates him as a witness).

Like a lot of "resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" people who like to talk down the usefulness of guns in the hands of civilians, you oversimplify and overlook many of the factors involved.

[CobaltBlue]

You could be right, maybe somebody who is carrying a weapon will see the perp and shoot him.

Nevertheless, most of the recent shootings have been in Virginia, which does have a very strong right to carry law.
Under Virginia law, the circuit court judge MUST issue a concealed carry permit.

[Trailerpark Badass]

But even so, I don't think it would protect me from this sniper.

Certainly, being armed with a handgun will do little good if you're the target of the sniper. However, a likely scenario would include a civilian coming into surprise contact at close range with the shooter, possibly during ingress/egress to the shooting area. In such a situation, I would rather have a pistol than not, given that the shooter is unlikely to surrender peacefully.

[tje]

I agree with you. I've punched a lot of paper and I've hunted. There is a big difference. Sure, people are a big target at 100-200 yards, but this guy is deadly. It seems to me these people are dying fast and that tells me he's putting the bullet where he wants it.

That takes more skill than just picking up a rifle and screwing on a scope. He's spent some time sighting it in, he's put some range time in somewhere.

[in the Arena]

The origination of a rifle shot can be masked by using objects along the bullets path. Lining up a shot by design or fortune so that it passes a tree or building will cause an echo of the sonic wave from the projectile. This in combination with the original shot location and other objects passed would confuse any person unfortunate enough to be in the area. In an urban environment full of vehicles, houses, stores etc. determining the exact origination of a shot would be difficult.