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FBI HAS ASKED PENTAGON TO SEARCH RECORDS FOR GIíS WHO HAD GONE THROUGH SNIPER SCHOOL
Drudge Report ^ | 10/13/02

Posted on 10/13/2002 9:17:06 AM PDT by Brian Mosely

FBI HAS ASKED PENTAGON TO SEARCH RECORDS FOR RECENTLY DISCHARGED GI’S WHO HAD GONE THROUGH SNIPER SCHOOL, FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS TELL TIME

Nearly 1,000 People Working On Sniper Case, Including ATF Units, U.S. Marshals, and State Police

FBI Creating Animated 3-D Computer-Graphic Displays to Reconstruct Crime Scene, In Hopes of Jogging Witnesses Memories

New York -- The FBI has asked the Pentagon to search its records for recently discharged GIs who had gone through sniper school, federal law enforcement sources tell TIME. The schools teach snipers to work in tandem—one as the spotter, the other as the shooter, TIME’s Amanda Ripley reports.

An estimated 1,000 people are working on the case, including Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms units, U.S. Marshals and state police. The FBI. is creating animated 3-D computer-graphic displays to reconstruct the crime scene and help calculate the sniper’s position, in hopes of jogging potential witnesses’ memories, TIME reports.

The Science of Catching a Killer If there’s any consolation for horrified Americans watching the drama of the sniper slayings unfold, it’s that now, more than ever in history, officials have the skills to catch so slippery a killer, TIME’s Jeffrey Kluger reports. Even as the shooter—or shooters—taunted investigators by picking off more victims last week, police unleashed an unprecedented arsenal of tools to crack the case: geographic-profiling computers to try to pinpoint the killer’s location, ballistics databases that might link his unique bullet markings to other crimes, and trace-substance technology to lift whatever clues (fingerprints, DNA) might adhere to a shell casing or a tarot card.

But investigators are less dependent than ever on chance, and what they’ve unveiled this week is only a sampling of what they have in their high-tech kits, TIME reports. Perhaps the most futuristic—and controversial—of the new crime-busting technologies is a procedure known as brain fingerprinting. The principle behind the technique is that when the brain processes an image it recognizes (as opposed to one it has never seen before), it emits distinct electrical impulses that are detectable by scalp sensors. A positive response to a photo of a crime scene may mean a suspect was there before; a negative response may help confirm an alibi.

TIME.com Person of the Week: Charles A. Moose For his role as the unofficial spokesman for the sniper investigation, Charles Moose is TIME’s person of the week. This strong-willed, inveterate leader wants to do it his way — a tall order when you consider the masses of media, federal police and FBI agents swarming around each new crime scene — and second-guessing every move that's made.



Developing...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: sniper
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1 posted on 10/13/2002 9:17:06 AM PDT by Brian Mosely
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To: Brian Mosely
I'll bet this nut or these nuts, never served in the US military.
2 posted on 10/13/2002 9:19:29 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: Brian Mosely
This should come as no surprise. No stone should be left unturned in seeking out who these snipers are; within legal standards of course.
3 posted on 10/13/2002 9:19:42 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Brian Mosely
If this person is a recently trained military sniper, then I doubt he will ever be caught. We are talking about a different league of skills here. At best, the police will be able to tell the direction(and maybe distance) of the shot, but only LONG after the shooter has been gone.

Also, it is almost certain that this killer is NOT driving a white truck, but only waiting for one to come near his chosen victim before taking the shot.

This is no amateur.

4 posted on 10/13/2002 9:24:05 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: Brian Mosely
I bet they are ex-military , but not US military, if you know what I mean.

BTW it does not take a trained sniper to do one-shot one-kill at the distances they are talking about.

5 posted on 10/13/2002 9:24:13 AM PDT by ikka
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To: Cuttnhorse
I agree with you. In fact freepers on the sniper thread last night came to a different conclusion. Based on our observations it very well might be a terrorist muslim cell, well organized.

However, kuddos to the FBI for wanting to leave no stone unturned, and I pray and hope they catch the guy/s soon. Many of us think it's more than one.
6 posted on 10/13/2002 9:24:57 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: Cuttnhorse
I don't think you need military training to do what this sniper has done. I listened to a former CIA/FBI/military-type say today that rifles of the type likely used by this sniper are so easy to use accurately that all it takes is some practice. All a sniper would need, it seems, is the appropriate rifle and perhaps a manual.
7 posted on 10/13/2002 9:25:13 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: Diogenesis
pinging you to the Sunday speculation thread.
8 posted on 10/13/2002 9:26:04 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: Brian Mosely
Too many after-action reports for my taste....

Let's not help the shooter.

9 posted on 10/13/2002 9:27:19 AM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: BuddhaBoy
If this person was a trained sniper he wouldn't be using .223/5.56.

Unless, of course, he's really a VPC operative giving anti-sniper weapon fodder to the gun grabbers. In that case, he can villianize .223 varmint rifles at the same time they villianize everything else.

10 posted on 10/13/2002 9:30:02 AM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: Clara Lou
Well, there is a lot more to this person's skill than simply sqeezing off a shot on target. The ingress and egress of the area, concealment, etc, tells me this is a highly trained individual. And a good shot, to boot.
11 posted on 10/13/2002 9:30:19 AM PDT by Trust but Verify
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To: Brian Mosely
The first shot, through the window of the Michaels store, which didn't hit anyone, indicates against a trained sniper.
12 posted on 10/13/2002 9:31:37 AM PDT by Lessismore
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To: Brian Mosely
Oh, God . . . The politically correct a-white-guy-did-it theory. Gotta feel sorry for any diligent agent who's on the right track and going against the grain in that agency. He'll be demoted to mail boy before this is over.
13 posted on 10/13/2002 9:33:31 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Eagle Eye
If this person was a trained sniper he wouldn't be using .223/5.56.

But a person who was a trained sniper would KNOW that .223 pointed away from a trained sniper. And would know that .223 was "good enough" for this purpose.

That said, I'm dubious this person is a professional sniper; certainly doesn't seem to be required by the evidence.

14 posted on 10/13/2002 9:34:36 AM PDT by John H K
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To: Eagle Eye
If this person was a trained sniper he wouldn't be using .223/5.56.

He would if he didnt want people to think he was a trained sniper. Why use the standard tools of the trade, and give himself away?

15 posted on 10/13/2002 9:35:04 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
An 80% kill ratio with a .223 seems pretty effective to me.
16 posted on 10/13/2002 9:36:00 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Based on our observations it very well might be a terrorist muslim cell, well organized.

The only thing that doesn't fit is that typically the goofy mooselims seem eager to take credit for this type of terror activity. So far, no one has claimed credit.
Just hope they catch whoever it is.

17 posted on 10/13/2002 9:36:26 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: Trust but Verify
That's why I mentioned the manual-- there have to be manuals on the theory of sniping. Some of the survivalist groups have to have them.

I haven't made up my mind on who this sniper is-- al Qaeda, a nut, two nuts, former military....

18 posted on 10/13/2002 9:36:34 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: Brian Mosely
I hope they're also including FBI/ATF/Other Federal Alphabet Agency/Local-State LEO sniper-trained individuals, too.
19 posted on 10/13/2002 9:36:58 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Eagle Eye
It seems that he has proven that he can kill people with this round. Perhaps he's using it to throw people like you off.
20 posted on 10/13/2002 9:36:59 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: LibWhacker
Last time I checked a lot of the US Military wasn't white.

21 posted on 10/13/2002 9:37:08 AM PDT by John H K
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To: Brian Mosely
Watch them use this to put the Civilian Marksmanship Program out of commission.
22 posted on 10/13/2002 9:37:32 AM PDT by struwwelpeter
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To: Clara Lou
You are correct about not needing military training for this. You can go to any shooting range in the US on a Saturday and see some pretty good shots from guys who never served in the military.
23 posted on 10/13/2002 9:39:35 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: Brian Mosely
They should at least be looking for Islamist GIs who went through sniper school. Or any other Islamist.
24 posted on 10/13/2002 9:40:08 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: ikka
BTW it does not take a trained sniper to do one-shot one-kill at the distances they are talking about.

Eggs-zackly. Inside 200 yd. range, stationary taget, flat trajectory round. All point to an amature with a serious attitude problem.

Case against ex-military sniper:
Brass being left behind.
High traffic areas.
All torso shots. No head shots
First attempt was a miss (through a window)
So far has violated first rule of sniping...one shot, one kill (2 victims survived), perp is using the civilian rule of one shot then skedaddle.

Makes the case for the amatuer with the Wal-Mart purchased Ruger and a chip on his shoulder for the cops (taunting).

25 posted on 10/13/2002 9:40:52 AM PDT by woofer
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To: Dog Gone
Hey, this person is good. Damn good. The people who survived did so by dumb luck, period. It appears he is shooting for hearts, from either front or back.

The police have more clues then they are letting on, which means that from the clues they have, they are afraid of this guy.

26 posted on 10/13/2002 9:41:23 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: Brian Mosely
Dont forget all the boy scouts who earned marksmanship merit badges
27 posted on 10/13/2002 9:42:14 AM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: Cuttnhorse
The shooter doesnt need the military for the shooting, true. However, the excape and evade procedures would come ONLY from the US or Isreal.

This guy is shooting at people literally over the heads of cops, and getting away clean. This aint no civilian.

28 posted on 10/13/2002 9:43:40 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: Clara Lou
I haven't made up my mind on who this sniper is-- al Qaeda, a nut, two nuts, former military

Or, as one ex-cop on FOX suggested, a couple of teenagers daring each other to do something more dangerous. The cop made a good case for a couple of kids in their late teens who possibly still are attending high school which fits with the timing of the shootings.
At this point, I guess everything is being considered, and my guess is some private citizen will come up with an observation that will be key to capture.

29 posted on 10/13/2002 9:45:10 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: Brian Mosely
In the past serial killers were mainly white male loners. But in the same vain that we fight a "new kind of war" with radical Islamic murderers, I say there is a great possibility this is a new kind of shooter. I would NOT rule out US Islamic terror cells.
30 posted on 10/13/2002 9:45:17 AM PDT by Libertina
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; Fred Mertz
I think they should be looking at Bosnian snipers who may be in this country. Sniper attacks on civilians were one of the big terror techniques used in that war.
31 posted on 10/13/2002 9:46:10 AM PDT by livius
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To: Brian Mosely
Maybe this guy is trying to prove to all the nay-sayers that a 5.56 mm round is deadlier than a 7.62 mm round. Chances are that some of the dead victims might be alive if he used a rifle chambered for 7.62 ammunition.
32 posted on 10/13/2002 9:47:58 AM PDT by connectthedots
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To: woofer
With the weapon being used, a head shot would be stupid. The goal here is Terror, not just killing. Best to increase odds of a hit, then just take someone down.

First attempt that missed could have been a range check on a sucky weapon. Brass left behind was meant to be seen.

Snipers dont talk to their enemy. This person wants to be known, and he is. If he did everything right from a sniper perspective, then everyone would be thinking terrorism and looking outside rather than in.

33 posted on 10/13/2002 9:48:03 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
However, the excape and evade procedures would come ONLY from the US or Isreal.

Maybe, but I would guess that anyone with a routine knowledge of local traffic patterns and the freeway system could do this.

34 posted on 10/13/2002 9:48:55 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: Brian Mosely
Ugh!...
You don't have to be an army trained sniper to pull this off. Duh!..
A good shot with a flare for sneaky'ness would do, even less.
35 posted on 10/13/2002 9:49:10 AM PDT by hosepipe
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: livius
The CIA is also training Palestinian Authority people in sniper tactics. There is an outside chance that this is one of their graduates.
37 posted on 10/13/2002 9:51:11 AM PDT by UbIwerks
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To: Eagle Eye
If this person was a trained sniper he wouldn't be using .223/5.56.

Be thankful he is not using a .50 cal...

38 posted on 10/13/2002 9:52:26 AM PDT by tubebender
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To: Cuttnhorse
Traffic Patterns?

One day's observance max. This guy is out of the area before his victims even die.

39 posted on 10/13/2002 9:53:44 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
"Hey, this person is good. Damn good."

Get real. Those 150 yard shots can be had by most people using iron sights. This guy isn't even shooting movers. A 400 yard shot on a guy in full jog might be a bit more on the damned good side, but shooting a stationary man from 100 yards is handgun territory, not sniper material.

What was the most difficult shot? A man mowing his lawn? Not a special shot by any means.

What we have got here is a wussy making sissified shots using a bad choice for a sniper weapon looking to kill people for some strange and stupid thrill. There are counter-snipers in the area, and I hope they pluck his butt from 600 yards while on the move. That'll be a damned good and pleasant shot.
40 posted on 10/13/2002 9:55:08 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
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To: John H K

First USMC Scout Sniper Instructor Class. Summer 1977
Weapons Training Battalion, Quantico, Virginia

Well, golly . . . Maybe they're trying to pin this on a black boy. Let's calculate the probabilities, shall we?

41 posted on 10/13/2002 9:57:34 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: PatrioticAmerican
How do YOU know he is shooting from 150? Because the Police say so? Please. He is playing with them.
42 posted on 10/13/2002 9:58:39 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
I think that they should check the records of who is sniper trained nationwide, and then cross-check that list with who has served some time in prison and converted to Islam. Home-grown recruits for Al Qeda are plentiful inside the walls - Patrice Ford kind of guy with some sniper training.

Or maybe it is just some @ssholes from The Brady Bunch (Sarah, et al.)

43 posted on 10/13/2002 9:58:54 AM PDT by 11B3
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To: LibWhacker
Hey, it could happen! LOL!
44 posted on 10/13/2002 9:59:32 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: Clara Lou
What theory, what manual? Half the freepers on these threads have thought up much more complicated scenarios.
45 posted on 10/13/2002 10:00:09 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: hosepipe
You don't have to be an army trained sniper to pull this off. Duh!.. A good shot with a flare for sneaky'ness would do, even less.

Go to any wooded paintball range if you want to see cunning and markmanship. Granted they are not using long guns but they are conditioned to trigger pull

46 posted on 10/13/2002 10:00:19 AM PDT by tubebender
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To: Brian Mosely
How many drive by shootings across the country go unsolved??

If a military conection exists (police have sniper schools also), I bet it's something like the recent reservist who joined to get training so he do do his thing for al-queda.

47 posted on 10/13/2002 10:03:04 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Brian Mosely
The FBI should assume that it might be the very same guy who sent the anthrax letters. That might cut down on the Bureau's manpower requirements and enable the few capable agents they have to solve the crime . . .
48 posted on 10/13/2002 10:03:05 AM PDT by Crowcreek
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To: Brian Mosely
Thanks for the post.

Perhaps the most futuristic—and controversial—of the new crime-busting technologies is a procedure known as brain fingerprinting. The principle behind the technique is that when the brain processes an image it recognizes (as opposed to one it has never seen before), it emits distinct electrical impulses that are detectable by scalp sensors. A positive response to a photo of a crime scene may mean a suspect was there before; a negative response may help confirm an alibi.

This ought to be controversial. Let's assume the FBI/ATF etc test anyone who has ever taken "sniper" training and come up with a "positive" response. Now what? They have someone to include in the "suspect pool?"

Now we're talking anyone with darn near any rifle training at targets other than paper. No thanks, folks. There are many training opportunities out there for civilians who shoot in competition or just simply want skills other than paper-punching.

My recommendation is to call your attorney and answer no questions if the alphabet agency boys show up and ask you to take this test.

49 posted on 10/13/2002 10:05:23 AM PDT by toddst
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To: LibWhacker
Oh, God . . . The politically correct a-white-guy-did-it theory. Gotta feel sorry for any diligent agent who's on the right track and going against the grain in that agency. He'll be demoted to mail boy before this is over.

Not necessarily a white guy. Let's not fall into the pre-9/11 trap of thinking that everyone in the military is necessarily a patriot. The American-born Portland al-Qaeda member who joined the reserves expressly to get training for jihad is just one example of how Islamists may have infiltrated our armed forces. I'm afraid that can or worms has yet to be fully opened.

50 posted on 10/13/2002 10:06:45 AM PDT by browardchad
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