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Beltway Sniper Shootings-FR Commentary-Tuesday, Oct. 15
Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences | October 15, 2002 | Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences

Posted on 10/15/2002 2:17:07 AM PDT by Peach

To avoid multiple vanity threads regarding any news from press conferences, let's keep a live commentary thread going again today.

Note: This is the graphics-free thread. Graphics can be found under the thread titled "Beltway Sniper Shootings-Graphics Only"


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist; dc; fallschurch; md; nonterroristattack; sevencorners; shootings; sniper; va
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To: Route66
Would it be too cruel to suggest Helen stop by Michaels for a couple of yards of bright red cordorouy?
1,051 posted on 10/15/2002 1:34:15 PM PDT by SternTrek
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To: Sacajaweau
Sac, I am not sure that it is only one weapon. I know "they" (Moose, et al) are talkin' 'bout ballistics and all that, but now need to parse every statement made to us.

Wonder how I ever got the idea I had to do that?

Anyway, I do not remember being told definitively that the shooter(s) are using the exact same weapon for every shot. Yet most seem to be taking this for granted. Could those of you who do, please explain to those of us who are "trust-defiicent"?
1,052 posted on 10/15/2002 1:34:32 PM PDT by jacquej
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To: Kip Lange
I'm waiting for Moose to announce the chief suspect as: "Some Puerto Rican Guy!"

Now I get it. Chief Moose is trying to protect Gerraldo from angry right wingers.
1,053 posted on 10/15/2002 1:34:33 PM PDT by dinasour
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To: aristeides
Just a thought but she might have been shot closer because it was harder to see in the parking lot than it was at the Gas Station because the lighting was dimmer. But that is just a guess.
1,054 posted on 10/15/2002 1:35:05 PM PDT by areafiftyone
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To: sissyjane
Didn'tmean to sound alarmist. I just thought the whole scene on the Beltway was wierd and I felt for those people that were stuck on the roads caught up in it. It's hard to beleive that the area around the capitol could be put in such a situation. Not a day goes by that I come in to the city that I don't think of those types of scenarios since 9/11, especially here in NYC and DC.
1,055 posted on 10/15/2002 1:35:58 PM PDT by freeperfromnj
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To: GeorgeandtheDralgore
This is way beyond kids...but it does not make video practice invalid.

Heck, all the 9-11 guys had plane simulator videos, GPS units..etc..

Sac

1,056 posted on 10/15/2002 1:36:01 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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Comment #1,057 Removed by Moderator

To: knak
So that we all know it is the same shooter. He wants all the credit. Same goes with using the Astro...It is a in-your-face challenge.
1,058 posted on 10/15/2002 1:36:17 PM PDT by berkeleybeej
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To: sissyjane
I heard that too (that she worked on hackers) listening to WMAL over lunchtime. Maybe it's true. But maybe it's either an untruth or (more likely) a partial truth meant to hide from the public a disturbing aspect of her murder.
1,059 posted on 10/15/2002 1:37:26 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: knak
I can't quite figure out the logic of using the same gun though. Any idea?

Hmmmm...to make everyone thing it was one person comes to mind.

1,060 posted on 10/15/2002 1:37:50 PM PDT by evad
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To: Sacajaweau
but it does not make video practice invalid.

True.

1,061 posted on 10/15/2002 1:38:55 PM PDT by Elenya
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To: SternTrek
it would only be too cruel to the shooter, having to see that in the cross hairs...might shatter the glass...

t
1,062 posted on 10/15/2002 1:40:19 PM PDT by P7M13
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To: Peach; John H K
What's the likelihood 2-4 teenagers are such good shots they have killed 9 of 11 targets? What's the likelihood kids don't have school or work or supervision during the day or night? What's the likelihood that 4 teenagers are all psychotic?

Hey John! With the recent reports of two cars and four people involved, what would you say are the odds of this being random psychos? Is terrorism looking more likely? Is there any other explanation that is more likely than terrorism?

1,063 posted on 10/15/2002 1:40:26 PM PDT by eno_
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To: Duke1983
On another note, why do you suppose the sniper didn't take out the LEO working the traffic accident last friday instead of the gas station patron? Respect for Law Enforcement?

If you let me put my tin-foil hat on for a moment: The reason LE hasn't been attacked yet is that they want/need to establish a pattern. Once the pattern is established to the point that LE and the public knows what to expect....boom.

See, now you have the locals, who are small potatoes to these folks; plus the FBI & ATF in play. Once you get to that point, it's an easy matter to take them all out at once with some particularly nasty WMD.

Notice that everyone offshore is particularly quiet regarding the sniper attacks. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

1,064 posted on 10/15/2002 1:40:39 PM PDT by mhking
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To: Duke1983
On another note, why do you suppose the sniper didn't take out the LEO working the traffic accident last friday instead of the gas station patron?

That patron was a black man. The state trooper was presumably white. The perps seem to be alternating black and white victims.

1,065 posted on 10/15/2002 1:40:52 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: aristeides
The point has come for me, Ari, that I do not automatically accept as "truth" everything I hear, read, or see stated by authorities and/or the newsmedia.

When these run out of credibility with a certain percentage of the populace, we got twubble.

I would guess that they are getting pretty close to that critical mass in DC and it's burbs about now.
1,066 posted on 10/15/2002 1:41:04 PM PDT by jacquej
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To: All

Here

1,067 posted on 10/15/2002 1:42:21 PM PDT by GirlNextDoor
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To: aristeides
I think that she was unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time.No way was singled out as FBI. If this pervert wanted to go after FBI he'd just hang out after a shooting and take his pick.
1,068 posted on 10/15/2002 1:43:45 PM PDT by sissyjane
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To: sissyjane
Did you happen to catch the special on MSNBC this weekend with Peter Bergen? How back in October they actually thought there may have been a nuclear device in NYC? Of course it turned out that there wasn't -- but everyone came to work every day and never knew anything about it.
1,069 posted on 10/15/2002 1:44:04 PM PDT by freeperfromnj
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To: Gritty
A "Bat Cave" need not necessarily be a storage unit or a Mosque. It could be an empty 40' container on an 18 wheeler parked nearby but out of sight. Just drive right in, close up, and then drive the big truck away. Gone, and the cops can search all day. This is a "Bat Cave" that could be mobile and used anyplace. The requirements are a good hiding (parking) place nearby and proper recon and practice of escape routes to the big truck.

Hmmm. Wasn't there concern a few months ago about Al Qaeda "chatter" related to getting trucking licenses? The concern then was that they might try to transport explosive fuels, or toxic waste, and use them in a terrorist incident. But what if part of the plan was just to provide some mobile "Bat Caves" for something like this? It would explain how the white Chevy Astrovan can just vanish the way that it does. It would mean they wouldn't have to drive far away - just to a secluded area. Heck, behind a strip mall is perfect. Just drive maybe a 1/4 mile or so, zoom into the back of the big rig trailer...and on to the next site.

Interesting speculation.

1,070 posted on 10/15/2002 1:44:05 PM PDT by dark_lord
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To: sissyjane
Was she wearing her ID badge? Probably not.
1,071 posted on 10/15/2002 1:45:18 PM PDT by BiffSchneider
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To: areafiftyone
no diaper service

No diaper service????? What are they supposed to put on their heads?
1,072 posted on 10/15/2002 1:45:49 PM PDT by johnb838
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To: BiffSchneider
Looks like she was off duty shopping with her husband I doubt she was wearing her badge. I think she was in the wrong place at the wrong time just like all the victims.
1,073 posted on 10/15/2002 1:46:36 PM PDT by areafiftyone
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To: BiffSchneider
So many people in that area work in/for the Gov. that this strikes me as probably purely random...hit as many people as this guy has in that area and you're bound to hit someone who looks like they might fit a pattern you don't actually have.
1,074 posted on 10/15/2002 1:47:32 PM PDT by Kip Lange
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To: BiffSchneider
"Police Release Sketches of Vehicles"
"The sketches show a Ford Econo van and a Chevy Astro van. Each is white and has a ladder rack on top."
http://www.wtop.com/index.php?sid=11979&nid=25

Also, according to http://www.wtop.com/index.php?sid=9957&nid=104 , "A law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said another witness gave a description of a dark-skinned, possibly Hispanic or Middle Eastern, man in a white van."
1,075 posted on 10/15/2002 1:47:45 PM PDT by BiffSchneider
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To: GirlNextDoor
That's a very interesting article you linked to. I notice it identifies victim Linda Franklin as "An FBI analyst who assessed terrorist threats ".

That Chinese restaurant that the Middle Easterner drove to would presumably be the Fortune Chinese Restaurant. Today's Washington Post has a plan of the shopping center.

1,076 posted on 10/15/2002 1:48:23 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: Peach
Peach, one thing occurs to me about the one gun: perhaps that is all they felt they needed, and they didn't want to spend extra money.

Remember, they only buy one-way tickets, they return things to get their deposits back, they wire money back overseas if they don't need it, etc.

It is a curious fact, but this is how they seem to be operating...like they are on a really tight expense account.

That is, IF they are terrorists.

1,077 posted on 10/15/2002 1:48:27 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Gritty
The requirements are a good hiding (parking) place nearby and proper recon and practice of escape routes to the big truck.

That would certainly fit with the notion of most of these events happening near shopping centers; it would be an easy matter to park a non-descript semi at or near a shopping center without arousing suspicion.

1,078 posted on 10/15/2002 1:48:50 PM PDT by mhking
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To: dark_lord
Assuming the Chevy AstroVan isn't just grasping at straws as well. Could be a one person saw it at one site, next guy around a shooting is more prone to notice something he heard mentioned on the news...prosecutors know the problems of eyewitnesses very well. ;-)
1,079 posted on 10/15/2002 1:49:25 PM PDT by Kip Lange
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To: BiffSchneider; All
As long as we are speculating on everything, why would these shooters have the ladder rack on the roof? Any theories you all would care to float?
1,080 posted on 10/15/2002 1:49:27 PM PDT by jacquej
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To: BiffSchneider
With her job, I suppose it's possible she was working on Columbus Day. I wonder if she was. If she was, it's possible she was wearing her badge.
1,081 posted on 10/15/2002 1:50:00 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: freeperfromnj
I think it's a muslim terrorist,but I still don't think the FBI employee was selected for her job. I did hear about the nuclear device.

Unfortunately the government is learning as they go along.We've not been in this position before.No wonder the President looks so hagard lately.I wouldn't want to have the weighty decisions he has.
1,082 posted on 10/15/2002 1:51:08 PM PDT by sissyjane
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To: Miss Marple
However, by that reasoning, you'd think that their MO for this would be: STEAL a *bunch* of white vans from, say, rental agencies, and then attack aggresively over about a week or so, no? Suicidally, even? Bali and the French tanker didn't have this much (the sniping's) finesse to them, not at all, and those are most definitely al Qaeda (IMHO).
1,083 posted on 10/15/2002 1:52:04 PM PDT by Kip Lange
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To: freeperfromnj
How back in October they actually thought there may have been a nuclear device in NYC?

Christopher Hitchens has written about how, back then, friends of his in the government tipped him off that they thought there was a nuclear device in D.C., and advised him to get out of town a certain weekend.

1,084 posted on 10/15/2002 1:52:26 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: Miss Marple
one thing occurs to me about the one gun

That's a good point. The Jihad traiing manual mentions that they are very strict about accounting for weapons and ammunition -- right down to the number of bullets they are permitted to use.

1,085 posted on 10/15/2002 1:53:32 PM PDT by freeperfromnj
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To: jacquej
As long as we are speculating on everything, why would these shooters have the ladder rack on the roof? Any theories you all would care to float?

First time I've seen anyone raise that, fascinating and salient point. Shooters? Any ideas? I don't know much about sniper spotting/shooting from a van, but there's gotta be someone around who does.

1,086 posted on 10/15/2002 1:53:42 PM PDT by Kip Lange
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To: sissyjane
No wonder the President looks so hagard lately

He wasn't in DC, was he? I wonder who else is out of town.

1,087 posted on 10/15/2002 1:53:59 PM PDT by dinasour
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To: sissyjane
I too doubt if she was singled out as FBI. But if she was working terrorist threats as an analyst, she might have been singled out because of knowledge that she had, or because of suggestions she was making on the job that the terrorists did not like.
1,088 posted on 10/15/2002 1:54:57 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: GirlNextDoor
Don't you know GirlNExtDoor, that you are engaging in gross speculation, and therefore John H K will have to descend from on high to deliver retribution in the form of a scathing critique of you and everyone who believes what you believe about anything related to "terrorism." I write it as such, because nothing that happens in America besides 9/11 is terrorism.

He represents the Truth here on FR, dontcha know?

</sarcasm>
1,089 posted on 10/15/2002 1:54:58 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: dark_lord
My original "Bat Cave" idea was stationary, but that could not explain how they could disappear in multiple locations. You may be onto something. When the cops are looking for white vans, no one said anything about checking in the back of big rigs. Very possible.
1,090 posted on 10/15/2002 1:55:08 PM PDT by Sender
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To: Kip Lange
Assuming the Chevy AstroVan isn't just grasping at straws as well.

A white Chevy Astro and a white Ford Econoline look an awful lot alike; are we truly sure that we should be focusing on the Astro?

1,091 posted on 10/15/2002 1:56:19 PM PDT by mhking
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To: aristeides
It's sad that our children and grandchildren have to grow up in such an atmosphere here in our own country.
1,092 posted on 10/15/2002 1:56:53 PM PDT by freeperfromnj
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To: mhking
A white Chevy Astro and a white Ford Econoline look an awful lot alike

YOU PROFILER YOU!!! ;-)

1,093 posted on 10/15/2002 1:57:23 PM PDT by areafiftyone
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To: Duke1983
Maybe the LEO was the wrong color.
1,094 posted on 10/15/2002 1:58:00 PM PDT by madison10
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To: mhking
I also heard they were pulling over another make of car aggresively that was neither white nor a van. I will not mention it for obvious reasons. But there IS other stuff the authorities are going on, which is hopeful.
1,095 posted on 10/15/2002 1:58:14 PM PDT by Kip Lange
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To: Skywalk
LOL!

K, thanks. I've been duly warned. ;-)
Line 'em up!

Darn it! Think he'll notice I only posted an excerpt and link?

1,096 posted on 10/15/2002 1:59:59 PM PDT by GirlNextDoor
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To: All
My dumb question for the day. Lets say that authorities are unable to capture the perp anytime soon and fatalities continue to occur at the rate we are seeing now. How difficult or even plausible would it be to erect barriers in front of high traffic storefronts or locations where people are vulnerable by having to spend at least some time outside of their car standing still? I'm not talking something to necessarily stop a bullet from penetrating, but rather something to take store patrons out of the line of sight.
1,097 posted on 10/15/2002 2:00:11 PM PDT by WillVoteForFood
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To: Duke1983
On another note, why do you suppose the sniper didn't take out the LEO working the traffic accident last friday instead of the gas station patron? Respect for Law Enforcement????? (Made it seem less like terrorism to me at the time)

Maybe the sniper would rather humiliate LE than kill them. I think he/she/it/they has succeeded at that thus far.

1,098 posted on 10/15/2002 2:00:50 PM PDT by browardchad
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To: freeperfromnj
It's sad that our children and grandchildren have to grow up in such an atmosphere here in our own country.

Speaking as 27-year-old who has to live through it -- thanks, and yeah, it's gonna be worse on the kids. :-(

1,099 posted on 10/15/2002 2:00:59 PM PDT by Kip Lange
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To: Miss Marple
Miss Marple - That's a very good thought about why the shooters are only using one gun. It's what seems to trip these murderers up every time - greed/money/deposit/one way tickets, etc. Let's hope it trips them up this time. It makes more sense to me that they use one gun because they don't have a big budget and it's all they have. More sense than they want the police to know the same shooter did it. If that was the case, they could leave a signature at each shoot. You missed your calling - you should have been a detective. Actually, you are a detective!
1,100 posted on 10/15/2002 2:03:13 PM PDT by Peach
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