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Mark Steyn: They want to kill us all
The Spectator (U.K.) ^ | 10/19/2002 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 10/17/2002 8:13:55 AM PDT by Pokey78

Forget the ‘root causes’, says Mark Steyn. The massacre in Bali was part of the continuing Islamofascist war against the West, and those who ignore it are sleepwalking to national suicide

New Hampshire

An appeaser, said Churchill, feeds the crocodile in the hope that it will eat him last. But sometimes the croc eats him first anyway. For months, the US, Britain and Canada had warned the Indonesian government about terrorists operating within its borders. So had Singapore and Malaysia. President Megawati’s administration responded by calling Washington anti-Muslim. The American ambassador was publicly denounced by her vice-president. Hassan Wirayuda, the foreign minister, said in February that the outside world’s fears of Islamic terrorism in Indonesia were overblown and that in Jakarta ‘we laugh at it’. Ha-ha. From government contacts to police indifference, the administration’s strategy was to deny the crocodile existed and then quietly slip him the à la carte menu.

Now, Indonesian stocks are down, the rupiah’s in the toilet, the national carrier’s flying empty, and the official tourism websites have switched to continuously updated info on dead tourists, safe in the knowledge that they’re unlikely to be getting any new bookings from live ones. ‘We’re finished,’ says the chairman of the Indonesian Chamber of Commerce. The members of the Maroubra Lions Rugby League Club, who visited Bali at this time every year, won’t be back. On Saturday night after dinner, the blokes agreed to babysit while the wives went out dancing. They didn’t return. On Monday, Craig Salvatori put his two young daughters back on the plane to Sydney and told reporters he had to stay to ‘look for mummy’. He found her in the morgue a couple of hours later, so badly burned she was identifiable only by her jewellery. But not to worry, Mr Wirayuda: if the Western partygoers are fleeing, the high-rolling Islamofascists are here to stay. On Monday, for the first time, Mrs Megawati’s government conceded that al-Qa’eda are operating inside the country.

The slaughter of hundreds is, relative to population, an Australian 9/11, with the same heart-rending details of people clawing desperately through the rubble in search of husbands, wives, children. When Osama’s boys hit the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the root-cause crowd, after some pro forma regret about the loss of life, could barely conceal their admiration for the exquisite symbolism of the targets, the glittering monuments to American militarism and capitalism. The New Statesman dismissed the victims as Wall Street types who made the mistake of voting for Bush rather than Ralph Nader.

If you had to pick anywhere on the planet where Bush voters are thin on the ground, Bali’s hard to beat. Lots of Aussie beach bums, Scandinavian backpackers, German stoners, braying English public-school types taking a year off to find themselves, but not many registered Republicans. This mass murder was clearly going to be harder to excuse, but the root-causers gamely rose to the occasion. The Sydney Morning Herald’s Margo Kingston fretted over ‘whether we’ve respected and nurtured the place we love to visit or colonised it with our wants.... Maybe part of it is the lack of services for locals. A completely inadequate hospital, for instance, so graphically exposed in the aftermath of the horror. Some people — foreigners like us, elite big-city Indonesians — make their fortunes. Have residents lost their place, their power to define it? Did the big money fail to give enough back to the people who belong there, whose home it is?’, etc., etc. Well, if the insensitivity of Western tourism is the root cause, Margo can relax: it’s not gonna be a problem any more. Whether or not, as Margo would say, poverty breeds terrorism, in Indonesia last weekend’s terrorism will certainly breed poverty.

While we’re singing the old favourites, here’s Bruce Haigh with a timeless classic. Mr Haigh was an Australian diplomat in Indonesia, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and he’s in no doubt as to why hundreds of his compatriots were blown up in Bali. As he told Australia’s Nine Network, ‘The root cause of this issue has been America’s backing of Israel on Palestine.’ You don’t say. It may well be true that, for certain Muslims ‘frustrated’ by Washington’s support for Israeli ‘intransigence’, blowing up Australians in Bali makes perfect sense. But, if even this most elastic of root causes can be stretched halfway around the globe to a place conspicuously lacking either Jews or Americans, then clearly it can apply to anyone or anything: my advice to Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness is to put down the Omagh bombing as an understandable reaction to decades of frustration at Washington’s indulgence of the Zionist oppression of the Palestinian people. As the likes of Mr Haigh demonstrate every day, the more you insist the Islamist psychosis is a rational phenomenon to be accommodated, the more you risk sounding just as nutty as the terrorists.

On which subject, the Independent’s Robert Fisk thinks the Aussies were targeted for a more specific reason — blowback for being too cosy with the Great Satan: ‘The French have already paid a price for their initial support for Mr Bush. The killing of 11 French submarine technicians in Karachi has been followed by the suicide attack on the French oil tanker Limburg off the coast of Yemen. Now, it seems, it is the turn of Australia....’ And don’t worry, there are plenty of others who’ll be getting theirs any day now. Just in case al-Qa’eda had missed one or two, Fisk helpfully provides a useful list of legitimate targets: ‘Belgium, which hosts Nato HQ; Canada, whose special forces have also been operating in Afghanistan; Ireland, which allows US military aircraft to refuel at Shannon...’. Blessings be upon you, Mister Robert, we had entirely forgot to add ‘Kill the Irish’ to our ‘To Do’ list.

I wonder if it was a cautious editor who added ‘initial’ to that French ‘support for Mr Bush’. The French were supportive for about ten minutes after 11 September, but for most of the last year have been famously and publicly non-supportive: throughout the spring, their foreign minister, M. Védrine, was deploring American ‘simplisme’ on a daily basis. The French veto is still Saddam’s best shot at torpedoing any meaningful UN action on Iraq. If you were to pick only one Western nation not to blow up the oil tankers of, the French would be it.

But they got blown up anyway. And afterwards a spokesman for the Islamic Army of Aden said, ‘We would have preferred to hit a US frigate, but no problem because they are all infidels.’

No problem. They are all infidels.

Unlike Mr Fisk, I don’t have decades of expertise in the finer points of Islamic culture, so when people make certain statements and their acts conform to those statements I tend to take them at their word. As Hussein Massawi, former leader of Hezbollah, neatly put it, ‘We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you.’ The first choice of Islamists is to kill Americans and Jews, or best of all an American Jew — like Daniel Pearl, the late Wall Street Journal reporter. Failing that, they’re happy to kill Australians, Britons, Canadians, Swedes, Germans, as they did in Bali. We are all infidels.

Back in February, Fisk wrote a column headlined ‘Please Release My Friend Daniel Pearl’. It followed a familiar line: please release Daniel, then you’ll be able to tell your story, get your message out. Taking him hostage is ‘an own goal of the worst kind’, as it ensures he won’t be able to get your message out, the message being — Fisky presumed — ‘the suffering of tens of thousands of Afghan refugees’, ‘the plight of Pakistan’s millions of poor’, etc. Somehow the apologists keep missing the point: the story did get out; Pearl’s severed head is the message. That’s why they filmed the decapitation, released it on video, circulated it through the bazaars and madrasas and distributed it worldwide via the Internet. The message got out very effectively.

It’s the same with Bali. As a way of making a point about Zionist occupation of the West Bank, it’s a little convoluted, to say the least. If it’s intended to warn America’s allies off supporting Bush, it seems perverse and self-defeating to kill and maim large numbers of citizens from countries who haven’t supported him. So, instead of trying to fit square pegs into Islamic crescents, why not take the event at face value? It’s a mound of dead Australians and Scandinavians and the non-Islamic Indonesians of Bali: no problem, they’re all infidels. A Bush-voting social conservative from Mississippi or a gay peacenik from Denmark, they’re happy to kill both. If, as some of us maintain, the real ‘root cause’ of Islamofascism is Islam’s difficulty coexisting with modernity, we shouldn’t be surprised that an infidel-friendly, pluralist enclave in the world’s largest Muslim country would be an abomination to the Islamists, and the perfect target.

In many ways, the sanest Muslims in the world today are those of South Asia. In the Middle East, they’re mired in their own long-standing and mostly self-inflicted psychosis. In Europe, they’ve stood traditional immigration patterns on their head: the Continent’s young Muslims are less assimilated than their parents and grandparents; instead of becoming more European, they’re becoming more Islamist. So the challenge now is for the Wahhabists to co-opt the Asian Muslims as they have the Arab and European. They’ve had some success. Lee Kuan Yew has spoken of the change in Singapore’s Muslims in recent decades: once relatively integrated, they now keep themselves to themselves, are stricter in their observances than they’ve ever been, and dress their womenfolk more severely. They’ve embarked on the same process observers have spotted from the Balkans to Pakistan: the radicalisation of traditional Muslim communities. If Islamofascists were to gain control of Indonesia, it wouldn’t be a parochial, self-absorbed dictatorship like Suharto’s, but a launch-pad for an Islamic superstate in the region.

The easiest way to understand is, again, to take them at their word. Bassam Tibi, a Muslim professor at Göttingen University in Germany, gave an interesting speech a few months after 11 September: ‘Both sides should acknowledge candidly that although they might use identical terms these mean different things to each of them,’ he said. ‘The word “peace”, for example, implies to a Muslim the extension of the Dar al-Islam — or “House of Islam” — to the entire world. This is completely different from the Enlightenment concept of eternal peace that dominates Western thought.’ Only when the entire world is a Dar al-Islam will it be a Dar a-Salam, or ‘House of Peace’. The objective isn’t a self-governing Palestine but the death of the West.

On the face of it, that sounds crazy. But look at the gains they’ve made in the last quarter-century, since they overthrew America’s closest ally in the Muslim world and established the first radical Islamic Republic in Iran. In the Middle East, Islamism has proved far more successful and exportable than Nasserite socialism ever was. It’s brilliantly opportunist, slyly spotting the openings in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Philippines, Chechnya, and now Indonesia. In the West, it’s been able to rely on cultural squeamishness to advance its presence, ever since British police stood idly by while Muslim groups marched through the streets inciting their followers to murder Salman Rushdie. With the benefit of hindsight, Rushdie’s boneheaded buddies in the literary world made a huge mistake in opposing the ‘fatwa’ on the grounds of the primacy of artistic freedom rather than as a defence of Western pluralism. Everyone was more naive back then.

But we shouldn’t be now. As I said a few weeks ago, it’s not a clash between civilisations but within them — in the Muslim world, between what’s left of moderate traditional Islam and an extreme strain of that faith that even many of their co-religionists have difficulty living with; and in the West between those who think this culture is worth defending and those who’d rather sleepwalk to national suicide while mumbling bromides about whether Western hedonism is to blame for ‘lack of services for locals’ in Bali. To read Robert Fisk and Margo Kingston is like watching a panto cast on drugs: No matter how often the baddies say, ‘I’m behind you!’, Robert and Margo reply, ‘Oh, no, you’re not!’

I began with a Churchill quote, so let me end with one: ‘Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.’ That’s what happened after 11 September: the brief glimpse of the reality of the Islamist scheme was too much, and so we dusted ourselves off and retreated back to all the illusions, like the Oslo ‘peace process’. That can’t save us, and it certainly can’t save Indonesia. And until we’re prepared to identify the enemy and confront him as such, there will be more nights like last Saturday night, and more little girls like the Salvatoris’, orphaned because their mum and her friends went dancing.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; apesandpigs; clashofcivilizatio; gwot; infidels; islam; islamakazis; islamicextremism; islamofascism; islamofascists; jihad; marksteynlist; muslims; nonmuslims; reminder; rop; steyn; terrorism; waronterror; wot; zarqawi
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Comment #201 Removed by Moderator

To: LibWhacker; Grig
<< Brilliant move on their part, really . . . Don't invade with an army, but with emigrants. >>

Had a look around YOUR local environment lately, have yah?+
202 posted on 10/17/2002 10:41:19 PM PDT by Brian Allen
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To: m1911
Excellent.

How do I get on the Steyn ping list?

203 posted on 10/17/2002 10:48:39 PM PDT by CapandBall
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To: Pokey78; Yehuda; StarFan; Dutchy; newwahoo; rmlew; nutmeg; evilC; firebrand
While we’re singing the old favourites, here’s Bruce Haigh with a timeless classic. Mr Haigh was an Australian diplomat in Indonesia, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and he’s in no doubt as to why hundreds of his compatriots were blown up in Bali. As he told Australia’s Nine Network, ‘The root cause of this issue has been America’s backing of Israel on Palestine.’

And not one word about the Muslims hating the Jews and Christians as beig a cause...

204 posted on 10/17/2002 10:58:12 PM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: CapandBall; Pokey78
Pokey78 keeps the Steyn ping list.
205 posted on 10/18/2002 8:05:37 AM PDT by m1911
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To: steve-b
I don't see lady lawyer making any apologies. In fact, she would probably agree with you that the only way to deal with the radicals out to kill us is to kill them first. What I think you are missing is the fact that when they (the radical Islamists)look at the moral degradation of this country, it helps them rally support. Period. We should clean up our act. Will it stop them? Probably not. But, at least we won't be providing fodder. And, wouldn't our society be better of with a little less perversion, abortion, immorality, etc., regardless of our Islamic enemies?
206 posted on 10/18/2002 8:47:38 AM PDT by luvtheconstitution
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To: luvtheconstitution
Nonsense. The terrorists do not hate our vices. They hate our virtues.
207 posted on 10/18/2002 8:49:57 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: steve-b
Might you concede that they hate both our virtues and vices?
208 posted on 10/18/2002 8:54:52 AM PDT by luvtheconstitution
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To: luvtheconstitution
Might you concede that they hate both our virtues and vices?

No, I might not. I don't make excuses for them, and don't have much patience for those who do.

209 posted on 10/18/2002 8:56:35 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: steve-b
Maybe you're not reading my posts thoroughly. I am not making ANY apologies for them.
210 posted on 10/18/2002 9:03:16 AM PDT by luvtheconstitution
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To: Pokey78
the more you insist the Islamist psychosis is a rational phenomenon to be accommodated, the more you risk sounding just as nutty as the terrorists

This is the bottom line.

These people are not bothered about Western "Zionism" or "Imperialism" (though they say so to obfuscate the issue and stroke useful idiots of the Left).

These people are not bothered about Western "Decadence" or "Perversion" (though they say so to obfuscate the issue and stroke useful idiots of the Right).

These people want to destroy the West because the contrast between our successful civilization and their failed one embarasses them and ignites their envy. Period.

211 posted on 10/18/2002 9:07:27 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: luvtheconstitution
I am not making ANY apologies for them.

I'm sorry, but in asserting that their anger is aroused by something the West has allegedly done wrong -- rather than the truth, which is that their anger is aroused by what the West has done right -- you are doing just that, whether you realize it or not.

212 posted on 10/18/2002 9:09:28 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: steve-b
You're very good at missing the point. You must be a Democrat.
213 posted on 10/18/2002 9:14:17 AM PDT by luvtheconstitution
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To: luvtheconstitution
On the contrary, the point is made quite clearly in Msg#211.

The only thing I "missed" earlier was the suggestion that we should "clean up our act" so that we would not "be providing fodder" for the savages. Don't forget your umbrella, Neville.

214 posted on 10/18/2002 9:41:53 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
PN: "Teacher! Mom!"...runs back to the safety of the crowd.

LOL !!

215 posted on 10/18/2002 10:08:17 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: Nogbad
You know, that's a very interesting way to look at it. Very interesting.
216 posted on 10/18/2002 10:20:17 AM PDT by lady lawyer
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To: Pokey78
BTTT
217 posted on 10/18/2002 11:15:47 AM PDT by hattend
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To: Pokey78
Thanks!
218 posted on 10/18/2002 11:42:27 AM PDT by mrustow
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To: nutmeg
Thanks for the ping. Steyn works his usual journalistic magic.
219 posted on 10/18/2002 12:56:31 PM PDT by Bigg Red
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To: Pokey78
Excellent read.....and Steyn knows me....A Bush-voting social conservative from Mississippi

I'm flattered.

220 posted on 10/18/2002 1:40:37 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: lady lawyer
But I often think of a woman I met in the Sudan, Leyla.

I knew of a young Sudanese woman. But she was a Christian, not a Muslim. When a Sudanese government patrol demanded that she convert to Islam and she refused, they gang-raped her, mutilated her body (cut off body parts: her breasts, etc), and left her to slowly bleed to death.

Sudan is a hell-hole, and the events like the one described above are not uncommon. The same government which gives the Muslim woman you describe a nice life is murdering millions (over 2 million dead so far) Christian Sudanese in the south, through systematic starvation (burning crops) and even through the use of chemical weapons (Sarin gas, which was used by Commander Taib Musba), not to mention by military atrocities (taking over a village, and murdering those who refuse to convert to Islam, one by one through means too graphic to describe here).

Of course, once all the non-Muslims are eliminated, I'm sure the Sudan will be a region of utopian peace and utopia just like all the other areas under Islamic rule...
221 posted on 10/18/2002 2:12:44 PM PDT by Technogeeb
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To: lady lawyer
Re your # 11But I am saying that the degeneration of Western culture is hurrying up the process of radicalizing Islam.

Oh calm down.

America and American culture is far better now than ever. There is a multitude of wonderful young families who are strong, dedicated to educating their children in traditional values, and who love and serve their country. Scum-bags and degenerates have always been around.....gaining and losing

Islam has been actively fighting western culture for over 700 years....showing no mercy and taking every advantge to kill, pillage, and destroy.....and they, with the singular exception of modern Turkey, have always lost....And they will again.

Islam is simply a political system that has been masking for centuries as a religion. This enables the few to gain power over the truly stupid using the laughable, ramblings of their prophet as their constitution.

Despair gains nothing. Support your Government and particularly the military....its war and we will win in the end.

222 posted on 10/18/2002 2:15:13 PM PDT by rmvh
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To: steve-b
You've almost got it. My assertion is that we provide fodder for their recruiting efforts, not fodder for the attacks. There is no rationalization or justification for the attacks. They are pure evil.
223 posted on 10/18/2002 3:54:58 PM PDT by luvtheconstitution
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To: sistergoldenhair
Ping ya again.
224 posted on 10/18/2002 9:33:32 PM PDT by facedown
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To: KC_Conspirator; jalisco555; Huck
Michael Savage claims he coined the term "islamofascist", but he claims alot of stuff. Anyway, I wonder who was the first to use it?

Savage claims a lot of stuff.

To my (admittedly amateur) knowledge, Christopher Hitchens was-in-fact the first to coin the term.

225 posted on 10/18/2002 10:07:26 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: Rummyfan
There another 200 posts after this one (#37) so its probably been explained - but in case not here's my take on his allusion.

I think he's saying there's a character stage front with the audience warning her that the villain is sneaking up from behind but the character refuses to heed the audience.

226 posted on 10/19/2002 12:51:18 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: Pokey78
Sometimes the only way I can even convince myself that I am still sane is to come to FR and read Steyn. Thank heaven above for this guy. Thank heaven also to Pokey for sending us his work wherever & whenever he puts it out.(Although my blood pressure shoots OUT OF THE ROOF when I think that derivatively sophmoric writers like Maureen Dowd have won the Pulitzer and this guy has gone unaknowledged by anyone.)
227 posted on 10/19/2002 3:52:41 PM PDT by leilani
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To: Pokey78
Many adherents of Islam are decidedly non-peaceful. Funny how Muslims in America routinely fail to condemn terrorist violence. Actually, they say, "Sure, we oppose teerorist violence, but on the other hand, you Westerners have to understand that its all your fault, and you deserve it, and we sympathize with the terrorists."
228 posted on 10/21/2002 9:41:17 AM PDT by Z in Oregon
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To: rmvh; lady lawyer
America and American culture is far better now than ever. There is a multitude of wonderful young families who are strong, dedicated to educating their children in traditional values, and who love and serve their country.

True. However, the immoral Left holds unprecedented power in 2002 America. They control the public schools, both K-12 and universities. And they control the courts. These things have worsened dramatically over the last 50 years.

229 posted on 10/21/2002 9:46:40 AM PDT by Z in Oregon
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To: Z in Oregon
However, the immoral Left holds unprecedented power in 2002 America. They control the public schools, both K-12 and universities. And they control the courts. These things have worsened dramatically over the last 50 years.

So true. Once America had the best educational system in the world for the general public...now it has deteriorated to being one of the worst....thanks to the teachers unions and the socialistic support they get from the Democrats in return for votes.

But....a vast army of middle income people have sacrificed vacations, new cars, second homes, advanced entertainment etc for the funds to pay for and extract their children from these destructive government schools and place them in various private institutions....It just takes real sacrifice.

There are three things missing in the majority of public schools....(1) real teachers well educated and truly capable in their field, (2) A solid and proven..if not traditional curriculum, and (3) dicipline in the classroom.

The teachers unions and their Democratic puppeteers have denied this to most children in America.

Pathetic.

230 posted on 10/21/2002 11:17:05 AM PDT by rmvh
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To: luvtheconstitution
Having trained with saudi's I find the tired mantra that "they hate our degenerate" ways a laugh as they were the most foul, degenerate, honourless, cowardly, and lazy individuals I have had to be around. By the way, those degenerate ways usually are called freedom, freedom to choose, right or wrong.
231 posted on 10/21/2002 11:37:09 AM PDT by flyer182
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To: rmvh
I'm not sure that all conservatives realize the critcality of instituting and enforcing standardized tests at state level; such tests are the only thing that can force schools to teach actual academics instead of a left-wing "social justice" agenda. The teachers unions know this, which is why they come up with all sort of looney reasons for opposing standardized tests. I also figure that even parents who have taken their kids out of public schools have a civic duty to turn the screws on their state legislators to get standardized tests instituted and enforced.
232 posted on 10/21/2002 12:48:58 PM PDT by Z in Oregon
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To: Pokey78
bttt
233 posted on 09/16/2003 10:27:21 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Pokey78
bttt
234 posted on 09/16/2003 10:27:31 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Pokey78
Ping for later read.
235 posted on 09/16/2003 10:29:32 PM PDT by carl in alaska (Throw deep........you're already in the third quarter.)
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To: Pokey78
Please put me on the Steyn ping list. Thanks.
236 posted on 09/16/2003 11:05:04 PM PDT by blam
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To: Swordmaker; HAL9000

from a Mac software company website:

Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
Some people's minds are like cement: all mixed up and permanently set...
http://www.ambrosiasw.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t38835.html

I guess Andy forgot that "mac users are all tingly about socialism". ;'D


237 posted on 01/22/2005 6:17:34 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: Berosus; Cincinatus' Wife; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; FairOpinion; ...

from 2002.


238 posted on 06/17/2006 12:15:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("A father is a man who expects his son to be as good a man as he meant to be." -- Frank A. Clark)
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To: SunkenCiv

Thanks for the reminder -- Mark Steyn is right.

People should not forget this.


239 posted on 06/17/2006 12:18:12 PM PDT by FairOpinion (Dem Foreign Policy: SURRENDER to our enemies. Real conservatives don't help Dems get elected.)
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To: SunkenCiv

"But look at the gains they’ve made in the last quarter-century, since they overthrew America’s closest ally in the Muslim world and established the first radical Islamic Republic in Iran"


And we can thank Jimmy Carter for that.


240 posted on 06/17/2006 12:19:23 PM PDT by FairOpinion (Dem Foreign Policy: SURRENDER to our enemies. Real conservatives don't help Dems get elected.)
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To: Pokey78

By God he’s got it!


241 posted on 10/23/2007 7:33:38 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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