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Evangelical Group Says Jews Need Conversion
Deseret News ^ | Oct 12, 2002 | AP

Posted on 10/17/2002 4:20:26 PM PDT by jstone78

Evangelical Group Says Jews Need Conversion

WHEATON, Ill. (AP) — The World Evangelical Alliance is taking issue with an August report from U.S. Roman Catholic bishops that opposes efforts to target Jews for conversion.

The evangelical organization, an alliance of 120 national and regional church fellowships and 75 non-denominational ministries, has reaffirmed and reissued a declaration defending Jewish evangelism that was written in 1989 by 16 theologians from nine nations.

One of those theologians, the Rev. J.I. Packer, an Anglican teaching at Regent College in Vancouver, British Columbia, endorsed the reaffirmation. "Sharing Jesus Christ with our Jewish friends is as important a task as ever it was," he said.

The 27-point statement decries anti-Semitism and confesses that Christian churches have "been much to blame for tolerating and encouraging it," but says this history doesn't remove the right to share Christianity with Jews.

The Catholic bishops said deepened appreciation of God's unbroken covenant with the Jewish people means "campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer acceptable in the Catholic Church."

But the evangelical paper defends such targeted evangelism and denies that Israel's covenant relationship by itself brings salvation or that "any person can enjoy God's favor apart from the mediation of Jesus Christ."

"Faith in Jesus Christ is humanity's only way to come to know the Creator," the paper asserts.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: christians; conversion; jews
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The group of American Catholic Bishops who made the claim that Jews are exempt from the message of the Gospel, went against the teachings of the Catholic Church, Catholic Catechism, and Catholic Canon Law. They made the statement in order to appear to be politically-correct. They do not speak either for the worldwide church, or for American Catholics on this issue.

The central message of Christianity over the last 2,000 years, about Jesus Christ being the one and ONLY path to salvation for ALL peoples, has not changed.

1 posted on 10/17/2002 4:20:27 PM PDT by jstone78
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To: jstone78
The central message of Christianity over the last 2,000 years, about Jesus Christ being the one and ONLY path to salvation for ALL peoples, has not changed.

I'm curious. What is your position on Moses? Is he rotting in Hell? Did he go to Heaven, or neither?

ML/NJ

2 posted on 10/17/2002 4:23:52 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: jstone78
I Corith. 23 .".but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

Attn. Bishops! Read your bibles!

3 posted on 10/17/2002 4:26:51 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: ml/nj
Gee, when was Moses alive during or after Christ's time?
4 posted on 10/17/2002 4:28:51 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: ml/nj
I won't tell you what I think... but will remind you what the Bible says.

In the Old Testament, God reckoned Abraham's belief and obedience, as Righteousness. One can assume God did the same for Moses and others who believed and obeyed God.

Though it was different in the Old Testament, there was a place for those who belived God and obeyed Him.... awaiting the fulfillment of God's promise, to send His Son.

After Jesus Christ went to the cross... the Bible says there is no other way but Jesus.

Read it for yourself. It's all there.
5 posted on 10/17/2002 4:30:07 PM PDT by frnewsjunkie
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To: jstone78
A "no one comes to the Father except throught me" bump.
6 posted on 10/17/2002 4:32:22 PM PDT by Restorer
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: jstone78
The Catholic bishops said deepened appreciation of God's unbroken covenant with the Jewish people means "campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer acceptable in the Catholic Church."

The apostle Paul, the New Testament's foremost theologian (other than Jesus) went around preaching to Jews and Gentiles. Jesus himself appeared to Paul and commissioned him to preach salvation to both the Greek (gentile) and the Jew. These bishops could not unlatch Paul's sandal buckle and yet they dare contradict what he taught?! It's almost funny.

8 posted on 10/17/2002 4:38:41 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: jstone78
This sort of "Log in the Eye" stuff always bothers me.
9 posted on 10/17/2002 4:40:26 PM PDT by elbucko
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To: jstone78
"Sharing Jesus Christ with our Jewish friends is as important a task as ever it was," he said.

THAT'S the main reason my Jewish friends vote Democrat. To be left alone.

10 posted on 10/17/2002 4:43:58 PM PDT by elbucko
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To: frnewsjunkie
So God created millions of people and then damned them straight to hell because they did not have the opportunity to know anything about Jesus? That is what you are claiming.

This would include almost all of sub-sahara Africa prior to 1800, most all of Asia prior to 1800AD, all of the new world prior to 1500AD. Much of Europe prior to 1000 AD. Much of the moslem world to this day.

That doesn't seem "all loving" to me, it seems rather sadistic. However I don't think the all loving God would do that, so I choose to believe that there are other paths to God for other peoples in other times.

Not even all Jews knew of Jesus at the time of his death. The Jews had already been spread wide, there was no CNN. Despite the best efforts of Peter, Paul and the rest many probably never heard of Jesus for generations after he lived. So by following the laws that God had handed down to them for 1500 years, just as their fathers had, to the best of their ability, these Jews were also condemmened to hell?

This is what chosen by God means?

And this is the compassionate God?
11 posted on 10/17/2002 4:44:11 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: ml/nj
Your question isn't exactly clear. I'm guessing you are wondering if, and how, Moses could be saved if he lived and died long before Christ died.

If you would read the old testament you would find that shortly after the fall of man the sacrificial system was instituted. The sacrifice of the lamb foreshadowed (was symbolic of) the sacrifice of Christ.

The whole issue of the sacrificial system is quite interesting, you may want to look into it.
12 posted on 10/17/2002 4:44:29 PM PDT by lews
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To: ml/nj
In the begining was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God
Jesus has been from the begining..with Shadrak & friends in the fiery furnace and with Daniel in the lions den..

He appeared to, walked with, and ate with Abraham....

Mark 9: 2 Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain apart, by themselves. And he was
transfigured before them,

3 and his clothes became dazzling white, such as no one on earth could bleach them

. 4 And there appeared to
them Elijah with Moses, who were talking with Jesus.

5 Then Peter said to Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; let us make three
dwellings, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah."

6 He did not know what to say, for they were terrified.

7 Then a cloud
overshadowed them, and from the cloud there came a voice, "This is my Son, the Beloved; listen to him!"

8 Suddenly when they looked around,
they saw no one with them any more, but only Jesus.

9 As they were coming down the mountain, he ordered them to tell no one about what
they had seen, until after the Son of Man had risen from the dead.
13 posted on 10/17/2002 4:46:56 PM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: jstone78
Earth to AP: DUH. Look up the word "evangelical." Evangelicals say everyone needs conversion. It's what they believe. This is NOT NEWS.

What's next: "Jewish Group Says Seder Important to Them"?

14 posted on 10/17/2002 4:47:43 PM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: elbucko
"Sharing Jesus Christ with our Jewish friends is as important a task as ever it was," he said.

THAT'S the main reason my Jewish friends vote Democrat. To be left alone.

Well it's a myth that the Republicans are a part of the World Evangelical Association, but one the Dem's do a lot to perpetuate. D vs. R has a lot to do with political realities but almost nothing to do with whether Jews are bothered by evangelicals, Johovah's Witnesses, Mormons or anyone else. Even the Dems have not proposed making prostelitizing illegal. Though, given time, they may. Likewise the R's have not made it manditory, or easier. In other words, I think if Jews really are doing that they are being totally irrational and basing their political decisions on absurdities.

15 posted on 10/17/2002 4:48:07 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: jstone78
Gee, maybe they can re-open the pogroms.
16 posted on 10/17/2002 4:52:38 PM PDT by Bella_Bru
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To: Jack Black
I think if Jews really are doing that they are being totally irrational and basing their political decisions on absurdities.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but religion and politics are not necessarily rational to the human mind. The Fundamental side of ANY religion does not help the cause of the political idea it is associated with.

17 posted on 10/17/2002 4:55:05 PM PDT by elbucko
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To: frnewsjunkie; ml/nj
One can assume God did the same for Moses and others who believed and obeyed God

Hebrews 11 states very specifically that He did just that.

18 posted on 10/17/2002 4:55:18 PM PDT by agrace
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To: jstone78
I think that if there's anything America should have learned after 9/11 it should have been 'Keep your totalitarian religious beliefs to yourself'.

If God wants to reach each one of us in His own way, He won't send fanatic hijackers crashing into the WTC, Catholics to convert the Jews through Inquisition, or glassy-eyed idiots holding comic books to knock on our front doors .

In short, keep your religion out of my face and you won't get hurt.

19 posted on 10/17/2002 4:57:09 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: The KG9 Kid
glassy-eyed idiots holding comic books to knock on our front doors .

The JWs are the most annoying, aren't they?

20 posted on 10/17/2002 4:59:10 PM PDT by Bella_Bru
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To: The KG9 Kid
In short, keep your religion out of my face and you won't get hurt.

SAY HALELUJAH!

21 posted on 10/17/2002 5:01:51 PM PDT by elbucko
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To: Jack Black
This is what chosen by God means?

The Jews will always be the Chosen People.

And this is the compassionate God?

Do not use comments on this thread as a gauge of the compassionate God.

"My ways are not your ways." It would be wise for us to stop making God in our own image.

22 posted on 10/17/2002 5:02:31 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: ml/nj
Ephesians 4:8
8. Therefore it says,
"WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH,
HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES,
AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."

1 Peter 3:18-20
18. For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19. in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
20. who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

These are the some of the scriptures that explain that when Jesus descended into hell, He preached the Gospel to the captives in "Abraham's bosom" (all those that died before Him) and when He ascended, He led those captives to Heaven.
According to Jesus, before He finished his sacrifice and resurrection on earth, Heaven was not a fit place for the Patriarchs or anyone.
But it is for all that belong to Him now.

Jesus Christ (meaning the Anointed One) or Yeshuah Messiah (also meaning the Anointed One in Hebrew) is THE way, THE truth and THE life. no one comes to the Father but by Him...to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.

23 posted on 10/17/2002 5:03:52 PM PDT by RadicalRik
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To: Bella_Bru
"... The JWs are the most annoying, aren't they?"

I'm sure that just about all of them that truly believe in what they're doing are probably the nicest people you could hope to meet.

I can't say that from personal experience though, since I kick the door shut on them.

24 posted on 10/17/2002 5:09:15 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: The KG9 Kid
-- In short, keep your religion out of my face and you won't get hurt. --

I find it quite ironic that you would seek out a thread regarding christian evangelism and then complain about christian (or non-christian) evangelists seeking you out. It seems to me that you are telling others to "keep your religion out of my face" when you yourself have put it there in the first place.

25 posted on 10/17/2002 5:14:08 PM PDT by lews
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To: jstone78
dittoes
26 posted on 10/17/2002 5:14:25 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: jstone78
Great Post! I've met Mr. Packer he's a great man indeed. Check out ReformationRevival Ministries.com. You will be pleasantly suprised.
27 posted on 10/17/2002 5:14:35 PM PDT by STD
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To: elbucko
That's not relavent in the scope of eternity! I don't care what the moral relativists say about God. Sin is still sin. You will be held accountable for any and all votes you cast.

Jews are accountable, just as I'm accountable.

28 posted on 10/17/2002 5:20:08 PM PDT by STD
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To: lews
"... I find it quite ironic that you would seek out a thread regarding christian evangelism and then complain about christian (or non-christian) evangelists seeking you out."

The KG9 Kid rates this troll thread:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
___________^

An '8'!

The KG9 Kid 'Troll-O-Meter'® is a licensed trademark of KG9, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

29 posted on 10/17/2002 5:20:24 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Jack Black
JB

You are not taking into account the Almighty. He in His power can do whatever He wishes. He's doesn't answer to you or I. Thank God!

30 posted on 10/17/2002 5:23:42 PM PDT by STD
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To: elbucko
THAT'S the main reason my Jewish friends vote Democrat. To be left alone.

No, the main reasons anyone votes Democrat are guilt and stupidity....

31 posted on 10/17/2002 5:23:46 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: jstone78
Whats the difference between christians saying accept jesus or go to hell, and muslims saying all non-muslims are infidels?

Being jewish I love it, we don't proselytize. When asked about jesus, I always ask why don't you go try to get the millions of christians who never go to church? Hey take care your own people then try to save others. If your own people aren't buying it, and I am happy with what I am doing, then don't bother me.

Sorry, I flame away.

32 posted on 10/17/2002 5:23:49 PM PDT by hoosierboy
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To: The KG9 Kid
In short, keep your religion out of my face and you won't get hurt.

Takes a big man to threaten an Evangelical Christian. I bet you are even more menacing to the Girl Scouts who come to your door selling cookies....

33 posted on 10/17/2002 5:27:31 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: hoosierboy
"...Whats the difference between christians saying accept jesus or go to hell, and muslims saying all non-muslims are infidels? "

The difference is Christians are right!

34 posted on 10/17/2002 5:27:33 PM PDT by lews
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To: lews; jstone78
Why not take it to the proper forum? --

Religion | latest posts
Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/browse
35 posted on 10/17/2002 5:29:15 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: freebilly
Must work for the Post Office....
36 posted on 10/17/2002 5:30:12 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: freebilly
"... Takes a big man to threaten an Evangelical Christian. I bet you are even more menacing to the Girl Scouts who come to your door selling cookies..."

Takes a big man who's an Evangelical Christian to threaten a Jewish Girl Scout with visions of Hell-fire and Brimstone.

37 posted on 10/17/2002 5:31:01 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: lews
I just stumbled on these idiotic threads. "My God's better than your god, my God's better than yours..." Same class as a dog food commercial. Betcha these folks actually believe the Landover Baptist Church exists. Check that website- Darn near as funny as these fundamentalist loonies!
39 posted on 10/17/2002 5:35:55 PM PDT by frodolives
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To: hoosierboy
Being jewish I love it, we don't proselytize. When asked about jesus, I always ask why don't you go try to get the millions of christians who never go to church? Hey take care your own people then try to save others. If your own people aren't buying it, and I am happy with what I am doing, then don't bother me.

The true Christian is obliged to share his faith. It's not a question of taking care of one group of people over another. It is our duty and privilege to share the message, to all, of salvation through Christ crucified.

That's our job, everyone's else's job is to choose to believe or not.

40 posted on 10/17/2002 5:38:29 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: jstone78
The World Evangelical Alliance is taking issue with an August report from U.S. Roman Catholic bishops that opposes efforts to target Jews for conversion.

It was pointless for the Catholic bishops to say that, since we Catholics shrink from evangilizing anyhow.

What does that say about our belief!

41 posted on 10/17/2002 5:40:31 PM PDT by fatguy
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To: Jack Black
I am not claiming anything. I just wrote what the Bible said. You can choose to believe what you want. If you haven't read the Bible from front to back.. then you are just believing what is convenient for you. Unless of course, you don't believe the Bible either.

Not an uncommon thing to do for those who think they know all about God, from their own human viewpoint. Make is convenient... don't bother with Bible details.
42 posted on 10/17/2002 5:50:25 PM PDT by frnewsjunkie
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To: frodolives
I just stumbled on these idiotic threads. "My God's better than your god, my God's better than yours..." Same class as a dog food commercial. Betcha these folks actually believe the Landover Baptist Church exists. Check that website- Darn near as funny as these fundamentalist loonies!

Tolkien, BTW, was a Christian, but of course you didn't know that, frodolives, before you started bashing "fundamentalist loonies"....

43 posted on 10/17/2002 5:53:40 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: The KG9 Kid
Takes a big man who's an Evangelical Christian to threaten a Jewish Girl Scout with visions of Hell-fire and Brimstone.

I'm a Christian, I've never been to a service where a Pastor spoke about Hell-fire and Brimstone.

Maybe you need to actually talk to a few Christians rather than rely on some jerkwater movie's characterization of them....

44 posted on 10/17/2002 5:57:37 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: freebilly
Don't try to tell me what my job is, and in return I'll let you be free to do yours.

Deal?

And do you 'get' the principle?

45 posted on 10/17/2002 5:58:43 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: HinduAmerican
there is no difference between al-qaida and this evangelical christen group. may they have not yet trained in afghanistan.

Oh, that's right! Worldwide Christians are crashing planes into buildings, planning suicide bombings, and prohibiting members of other religions from their religious practices under threat of death...

Lord, I'd call this man an idiot, but I know you wouldn't be pleased if I did....

46 posted on 10/17/2002 6:01:19 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: tpaine
tpaine, you've already made it quite clear you're an atheist. You've already made a choice. That was your job, and you performed it admirably....
47 posted on 10/17/2002 6:03:10 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: NBF40
"They are correct...last time I checked the small minority of Jews that actually practice their religion do not accept Christ as Savior."

You have forgotten the 50,000-100,000 Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

48 posted on 10/17/2002 6:06:22 PM PDT by cookcounty
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To: elbucko; OldFriend
THAT'S the main reason my Jewish friends vote Democrat. To be left alone.

The main reason MY Jewish friends vote Democratic is because they are Reform Jews, about as close to the real thing as I am (Presbyterian). They pretty much do as they wish as far as religion goes which fits the Democrats idea of do anything that makes you feel good.

The past President of my local Temple once told me that being a Reform Jew was like being a Democrat with religious holidays.

(OldFriend, Reform used in the correct manner, PING)

49 posted on 10/17/2002 6:08:18 PM PDT by HoustonCurmudgeon
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To: jstone78
Amen; what's so tough for all the religious 'Christians' to understand? Heaven only for certain people? Is that what the Word says? Did Christ die in vain? Praise God for a personal relationship with Christ, which persuades me as often as I need it that He died for EVERYONE to be brought into a personal relationship with the God who created us and loves us so very, very much.
50 posted on 10/17/2002 6:09:23 PM PDT by ApesForEvolution
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