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Evangelical Group Says Jews Need Conversion
Deseret News ^ | Oct 12, 2002 | AP

Posted on 10/17/2002 4:20:26 PM PDT by jstone78

Evangelical Group Says Jews Need Conversion

WHEATON, Ill. (AP) — The World Evangelical Alliance is taking issue with an August report from U.S. Roman Catholic bishops that opposes efforts to target Jews for conversion.

The evangelical organization, an alliance of 120 national and regional church fellowships and 75 non-denominational ministries, has reaffirmed and reissued a declaration defending Jewish evangelism that was written in 1989 by 16 theologians from nine nations.

One of those theologians, the Rev. J.I. Packer, an Anglican teaching at Regent College in Vancouver, British Columbia, endorsed the reaffirmation. "Sharing Jesus Christ with our Jewish friends is as important a task as ever it was," he said.

The 27-point statement decries anti-Semitism and confesses that Christian churches have "been much to blame for tolerating and encouraging it," but says this history doesn't remove the right to share Christianity with Jews.

The Catholic bishops said deepened appreciation of God's unbroken covenant with the Jewish people means "campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer acceptable in the Catholic Church."

But the evangelical paper defends such targeted evangelism and denies that Israel's covenant relationship by itself brings salvation or that "any person can enjoy God's favor apart from the mediation of Jesus Christ."

"Faith in Jesus Christ is humanity's only way to come to know the Creator," the paper asserts.

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: christians; conversion; jews
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon
Could just be that JWs in Cali have no manners either. They like to come around on Saturday mornings at 7am. It usually takes a little while to get rid of them. I understand their desire to evangelize, but I just wish they'd understand my desire to sleep and not hear their message.
81 posted on 10/17/2002 8:10:08 PM PDT by Bella_Bru
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To: LostTribe
Good point. I understand the distinction. That's why I said nonJewish instead of Gentile.
82 posted on 10/17/2002 8:13:39 PM PDT by ovrtaxt
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To: Bella_Bru
Since when are JWs Christians? They use a very different book. (And they only come to my house ONCE.)
83 posted on 10/17/2002 8:17:30 PM PDT by ovrtaxt
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To: Bella_Bru
I understand your problem and do not care for the JW group at all. Tell them you are a Roman Catholic and it will keep most of them and all the Mormans away. I would however point out that the 7am came from you and not the California/Marine who I called ill mannered.
84 posted on 10/17/2002 8:18:14 PM PDT by HoustonCurmudgeon
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Comment #85 Removed by Moderator

To: ml/nj
Moses put his faith in the Christ who would come and had been prophesied to do so clear back in Genesis. We look back to Christ who has come. Only a few lived during his actual earthly ministry.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

86 posted on 10/17/2002 8:26:29 PM PDT by razorbak
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

To: Betty4Bush
Where did you get your theology, a cereal box? Or a Bazooka Joe wrapper?

I don't even know what to say to that. PLEASE, if anyone reads that, that's NOT what the Bible says!
88 posted on 10/17/2002 8:27:55 PM PDT by ovrtaxt
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To: Betty4Bush
"Betty4Bush signed up 2002-10-17."

You need to be aware of something. There are pastors, teachers, theologians and people with something of an education on FR who are reading your posts. You will not be able to post that kind of ignorant stuff without being challenged on it, WITH SCRIPTURAL EXAMPLES BACKING US UP. Be careful, you will be corrected. In love, of course.

90 posted on 10/17/2002 8:35:25 PM PDT by ovrtaxt
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To: Betty4Bush
Save me from what? I'm sorry, but I don't like motivation by fear.
91 posted on 10/17/2002 8:37:30 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
>Thanks for your cordial response.

My pleasure.  It is a joy to visit with someone who's knowledge is honestly grounded and opinions are carefully considered.  Those opinions are always worth careful review and extended thought.

>OK, I must say I don't have any idea where this information you posted has it's source. You may be right...

I can only take responsibility for myself.  {ggg}.  It either works, or it doesn't.

>But I must add that as a seminary graduate and teacher,

Nice to meet another one!  I have numerous ex-College roomates who are mainline Seminary Teachers, Pastors, College Deans, etc.  My own formal Theological training is more humble, but still better than 99% of what you see on TV (for what very little that is worth!) and better by far than many who are pastoring parishes in America.  In addition, I did post-Doctoral work in Biblical Archeology at both Oxford University and University of Dublin (Trinity College), plus extensive global travel and museum hopping, including most of the worlds major Celtic sites.  But enough pedigree sniffing. {ggg}.

> I don't believe your understanding of Mathew 10:5... is correct.

Fair enough.

>Gentiles were non Jews and Samaritans were half Jews (origin: sometime after 722 BC when Assyria conquered the northern kingdom, it moved the conquered people of northern Mesopotamia into Israel where intermarriage took place.

Undoubtely some of that did take place.  At least that is the default position taken by historians who can never say "I really don't know" and have to some up with some sort of answer that is not easily challengable.  (It also fails to address the generic nature of the word GENTILE, bastardized over history with a specific meaning.  It is of the nature of the word holocaust, a generic word until given a specific context.)

But if there is serious evidence that the Assyrians moved 5 MILLION people back to Israel I have not seen it.  Indeed, the evidence indicates the Northern Kingdom joined with the Medes and Persians to overthrow the overextended Assyrians.  Since the Medes and Persians controlled all escape routes except to the north, that is where evidence indicates the Lost Tribes of Israel bailed out for the west and north.  (Josephus and others...)

>The kindom message of Christ was aimed at God's covenant peoples - the Jews - who were lost.

The problem with this position is that Jews are not EXCLUSIVELY Gods' covenant people.  Please carefully review my brief thesis to save the bandwidth here: 3-MINUTE HISTORY. We can then pursue this line of thought if you like.  

>Now, here's the great thing... I still wish you the best. In comparison with understanding our need of a Savior, this is a minor point of discussion.

Absolutely right!  That is truly the GOOD NEWS.  But I feel strongly that if we do not understand who the Lost Tribes of Israel really are, we miss a huge portion of God fulfillment of history.  Hosea 1:10-11 and many other verses can not be reconciled without it. (Beyond that, we make decisions on international politics which are based on terribly flawed premises.)

92 posted on 10/17/2002 8:42:16 PM PDT by LostTribe
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To: ovrtaxt
>There were NO nonJewish believers for about 14 years

Uhhhmm, I'm sorry, I think we are talking past each other? My point is ... there were no nonISRAELITE believers... Not the same as non JEWISH.

94 posted on 10/17/2002 8:46:06 PM PDT by LostTribe
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Comment #95 Removed by Moderator

To: Betty4Bush
"Moses is in Hell. The only way to Glory is by accepting Jesus Christ as your Personal Savior. "

Oh, Moses wasn't a believer in the Messiah? All that Tabernacle stuff was just because he was bored? All the sacrifices was just because he liked lamb dinners?

What do you think all that worship was about? It proclaimed the coming of Christ!

"The conerstone of our faith is that it is only through Jesus that you can be saved. Therefore, no matter now much you may love the Jewish God, if you do not accept Jesus as your Savior, you are damned. "

Um, Jesus IS the Jewish God. Ever hear of the Trinity?

"That means that all the people who lived before Jesus are in Hell. It means that all people who die before accepting Jesus, either because they are too young, don't have the mental capacity or any other reason, are in Hell. "

So aborted and stillborn babies go to hell? Sure, that's the God I know! Profoundly disabled people are going to hell because they can't understand the Gospel? Right.

"It may not seem fair, but it is not ours to question why."

I know of another institution where you're not supposed to question or think, just accept it blindly if you're truly reverent. Islam. (There are NO Islamic theologians.)

"If Moses can get into Glory without Jesus, then you are saying that Jesus died for nothing. And Jesus did not die for nothing. He died so that we may be saved and not perish like Moses and all the people of the Old Testament. "

Moses was a believer. He didn't get in without Jesus. So was David, Elijah, Enoch, Seth, Abraham, Joseph, Isaac, etc. You need to read your Bible. You're actually saying that God rejected every person who ever lived before Christ? That's the most ignorant thing Ive ever heard! God first preached the Gospel in Genesis 3:15. After that, and to this day, anybody who believes it is saved.

96 posted on 10/17/2002 8:57:35 PM PDT by ovrtaxt
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To: LostTribe
Oh, I see. Yes, I agree.
97 posted on 10/17/2002 8:58:31 PM PDT by ovrtaxt
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To: Betty4Bush
>The Jews were the Chosen People. The Lord gave them everything. Freed them from slavery... And what did they do? Spit in God's eye

Hi Betty. Both the Jewish (Southern Kindgom Jews to be 1,500 years later) and "non-Jewish" (Northern Kingdom Israelites) spit in Gods eye, and each Kingdom received as its punishment its own separate diaspora.

And you are right, the Northern Kingdom Celts/Europeans/Americans are today the backbone of global Christianity. Please check out the brief ISRAELITE HISTORY by clicking.

98 posted on 10/17/2002 8:58:36 PM PDT by LostTribe
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To: ovrtaxt
>Oh, I see. Yes, I agree.

Thanks! Had me confuzzzzed there for a second. {ggg}.

99 posted on 10/17/2002 9:00:05 PM PDT by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
Both the Jewish (Southern Kingdom Jews-to-be 1,500 ~500 years later)
100 posted on 10/17/2002 9:02:58 PM PDT by LostTribe
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