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To: RogerFGay
The men's right crowd here on FR steadfastly refuses to acknowledge the single biggest flaw in its approach. The inner workings of the family have traditionally been seen as outside the domain of the state. It is divorce more than anything else which invites the state to interfere in areas in which it has no business, and in which it more likely to do harm than good. Revising child custody laws will do absolutely nothing to correct the situation. In fact, I think such policies may have the effect of further devaluing the importance of motherhood to society.

You men want an easy way out. Work on your marriages more, and you won't have to deal with these problems in the first place.

17 posted on 10/20/2002 8:58:05 AM PDT by independentmind
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To: independentmind
I take it you're a divorced women with children, or are very close to someone who is.
19 posted on 10/20/2002 9:04:15 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: independentmind
You men want an easy way out. Work on your marriages more, and you won't have to deal with these problems in the first place.

Does that include the times that women in a marriage are impregnated by other men and then decide to get a divorce so they can go out at night and "party" even more?

23 posted on 10/20/2002 9:11:25 AM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: independentmind
You men want an easy way out. Work on your marriages more, and you won't have to deal with these problems in the first place.

Come back and talk to us when you have been there and done that...

24 posted on 10/20/2002 9:12:46 AM PDT by null and void
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To: independentmind
It is divorce more than anything else which invites the state to interfere in areas in which it has no business, and in which it more likely to do harm than good.

I actually agree with you, though you may not like the reasons why. I happen to think that because of the current legal conditions for men in this country, that they would be FOOLISH to consider marriage at all.

Marriage and children are largely a free pass for the State to remove a man's rights. A man unmarried and childless like myself, can only empathize with those men being taken to the cleaners by a spouse, and I advise every man I meet AGAINST marriage, until the laws change.

This will likely take a generation of women not finding husbands (and understanding why they cant) before something is done. The only things that can protect a man from a scornful woman these days is a vasectomy, and a refusal to consider marriage.

26 posted on 10/20/2002 9:16:35 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: independentmind
You men want an easy way out. Work on your marriages more, and you won't have to deal with these problems in the first place.

Pretty narrow-minded viewpoint, IMHO. Doesn't even begin to cover my particular case. I was married for 16 years, fathered 3 wonderful children, and my wife destroyed it all by cheating on me, all to feed her ego about having control over men. I treated her like a queen, was faithful to her, and never considered cheating on her, tried very hard to provide a loving and safe home for her and the kids. The fact that my kids have become such wonderful, loving adults, who would make any man burst with pride, is in no way a result of their mother's blatant disregard for our marrige vows, or the damage that was inflicted not only on me but on my kids when the marriage was ended. I paid out over $50,000 in child support, reduced my lifestyle to the minimum in order to pay it, and now, 11 years after the divorce, I'm still digging out from under the financial devastation I suffered. All together, my divorce cost me over $100,000. Don't talk to me about men taking their responsibilities seriously, because I DID!!! Women have just as much responsibility for making the marriage work as men do.

I would venture to say that the Feminist elements who have fed a load of crap to the women of this country share a large protion of the blame for the state of affairs we have now. It makes me sick, and I'm still single after 11 years because I can't seem to find a woman who has her head screwed on straight. This whole "liberation" movement has produced a generation of women (and men) with severely bruised spirits, and very irrational ideas about relationships, marriage, and responsibility. The damage will take several generations to undo, IF we start now. I don't see that happening.

33 posted on 10/20/2002 9:23:45 AM PDT by nobdysfool
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To: independentmind
Who takes the easy way out? 30 % of women seem to point the finger in the wrong direction. Mama's baby, Daddy's maybe....

http://www.paternityfraud.com/
50 posted on 10/20/2002 10:04:24 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: independentmind
It is divorce more than anything else which invites the state to interfere in areas in which it has no business... You men want an easy way out. Work on your marriages more, and you won't have to deal with these problems in the first place.

That's a bit self-righteous. No-fault divorces are easy to get and women are usually the ones who file. Considering how bitter feminism has made women, I often sympathize with men who married gals whose expectations were unrealistic and who rarely know themselves at all. Men are over a barrel lately. I'm actually glad to be female as we have the advantage right now and many of them use it rather ruthlessly.

64 posted on 10/20/2002 10:21:15 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: independentmind
Take your head out of the sand. Smell the coffee. Wake up to the fact that divorce is an industry that is founded in Court bias towards allowing mother's custody and child support in a great majority of cases, regardless of the woman's qualifications to be a good parent. Would'nt you pay an attorney a couple of thousand dollars for a guaranteed 18 year annunity that would pay out 25-50 times as much?

Take the lawyers out of divorce and divorce cases would decline rapidly, IMO.

128 posted on 10/20/2002 11:15:51 AM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: independentmind
You make an excellent point.
136 posted on 10/20/2002 11:18:37 AM PDT by cornelis
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To: independentmind
Whining over child support and its inequities (of which I'm sure are many) is one of the incessant background noises on FR. Wonder if they were whining while the kids were being made? My sympathies are rather mixed. It's not an eternal sentence, after all, eighteen years at most. Their kids must really enjoy listening to the b&tching...makes them feel truly loved! I know the women aren't to be depended on in the expenditure of their support...but we all have to live with our mistakes. Kids can't help their parents, but parents must help their kids. If money is all the help they get, so be it.
236 posted on 10/20/2002 2:49:11 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: independentmind
You men want an easy way out. Work on your marriages more, and you won't have to deal with these problems in the first place.

Are you kidding me? You would not believe how hard my cousins worked to keep their marriages going. The number one reason for divorce is $$$$ money $$$$, toots. Green. It was certainly the case regarding my two cousins. Working at a marriage would appear to be a big mistake. These husbands have to earn over 100 grand before the filing rate shifts from female to male. Time would be better spent being a workaholic mule for the wife. Time with 'the fam' is for suckers, statistically speaking.

Todays' wife is slowly beginning to become more of a prostitution racket for cash and less of a true, genuine, SACRED vow.

This is not meant to offend women who do not think that way. But women who collect child support... guess what? The leading reason [$$$$$$] is that a high percentage of them have the mindsets of whores.

Sorry, but that is how the stats add up.

247 posted on 10/20/2002 3:12:39 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: independentmind
You men want an easy way out. Work on your marriages more, and you won't have to deal with these problems in the first place.

The majority of divorces are initiated by women. It's the women who see divorce as the easy solution: get rid of the man, but keep hold of his money

If wife-initiated divorce meant that the man would walk away and not be required to pay one penny more than he felt like voluntarily paying, more wives would be motivated to "work on the marriage more"

249 posted on 10/20/2002 3:16:14 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: independentmind
Revising child custody laws will do absolutely nothing to correct the situation.

Incorrect. Institute laws mandating that, short of being proven criminally unfit, fathers have automatic custody of all their children, and everything improves markedly.

257 posted on 10/20/2002 4:15:54 PM PDT by Z in Oregon
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