'We do want to talk' (More than one Tarot card has been found)

Richmond Times Dispatch ^ | 10/21/02 | KIRAN KRISHNAMURTHY AND REX BOWMAN

[areafiftyone]

Police say they have a note and a phone number from whoever shot a man leaving an Ashland restaurant Saturday night.

"To the person who left us a message at the Ponderosa last night: You gave us a telephone number. We do want to talk with you. Call us at the number you provided," Montgomery County, Md., Chief Charles A. Moose said during an evening news conference.

[areafiftyone]

Looks like this is more and more turning out to be a psycho serial/sniper and not ME terrorists.

[theDentist]

Since no one really knows, it could be a terrorist who is not as fully resolved to his actions as his cohorts. Or just something to mislead Police into thinking it's only one, or a ploy used in case he's caught so he can claim mental deficiency.

[areafiftyone]

I don't think so. If you look at alot of serial killers they love to leave notes taunting police or the newspapers. This does not sound like terrorists. This person lives in virginia and has some agenda or is just psychotic and needs to kill.

[JameRetief]

It could still be ME terrorist related. We won't know until after a phone call to police to determine what the shooter actually wants to say.

If it is ME related, the phone call could be to relay that if the US attacks Iraq that shootings like this will start all over the US. Or it could be any other number of things that a terrorist would want to say to the US.

Or it could be just another nutcase. Either way, right now we just don't know.

[humblegunner]

"You gave us a telephone number. We do want to talk with you. Call us at the number you provided,"

Sooo.. how does that work, exactly?
How about they call him at the number he provided???

[wai-ming]

Police say they have a note and a phone number from whoever shot a man leaving an Ashland restaurant Saturday night.

"To the person who left us a message at the Ponderosa last night: You gave us a telephone number. We do want to talk with you. Call us at the number you provided,"

If the sniper gave them a telephone number, why don't they just call him/her?

[areafiftyone]

It is a bit confusing. If he left a number for them to call then I am sure they did. But Moose Man's message is a bit confusing. Looks like they are waiting for the sniper to call them. I think he is playing with them. I don't think they will get a call. He is real psychotic. Don't be surprised if he starts to send notes to the media (although I think this guy does NOT like the media like some other serial snipers who tend to use the media to get their message out).

[Dialup Llama]

>>"You gave us a telephone number. We do want to talk with you. Call us at the number you provided,"

>Sooo.. how does that work, exactly?

>How about they call him at the number he provided???

He would be calling on the world's most bugged phone number. If someone ever calls that number, it is not the sniper who will be answering it.

[areafiftyone]

If the sniper gave them a telephone number, why don't they just call him/her?

I think the number might be a phone booth or something like that. A public number so the police cannot trace him. I think he is just teasing. But the idea that he has left notes or tarot cards to the police lets you know that this person is psychotic and is in charge right now. He is going to play games until he gets caught.

[areafiftyone]

Fox News just said the gov. talked to the guys at Gitmo and nothing about ME snipers in the U.S. Looks like that guy in Belgium was doing his usual lying when he said there were plans for ME snipers in the U.S.

[JameRetief]

Come on people, the number that was left was an unrelated third party number (probably a pay phone) that the shooter would call to talk to the police. The phone company has "confiscated" the number and it now redirects to a dedicated police line. The shooter did this so that now the police know for certain that when he calls them on that line that it is indeed the shooter and not another nutcase claiming credit.

[johnny7]

Oh sure. The shooter puts his rifle into his backpack and steps over the victim to have a cheap meal at Ponderosa.

Makes perfect sense... maybe to chief Moose.

This is the prank of some sicko who was there after the cops arrived.

Possibly an employee who was cleaning up at 1:00 AM and doesn't like cops.

The “people” that are doing this are not mentally deranged. They are just doing their business... and getting away with it.

[doosee]

Police were also investigating the possibility the shooter may have used a bicycle and toted his weapon in a backpack to and from the scene, a law-enforcement official at the scene said on condition of anonymity.


My friend's daughter and another girl were jogging about 3 miles away from where the woman was shot at Home Depot in Fairfax. A bicycle rider with a rifle stock sticking out of his backpack passed them by. They stopped cold and stared at him. They called police and gave a full description. Shortly after the woman was shot. This could well be the guy and that means the police can create a full description.

[JameRetief]

Just because the detainees in Gitmo know nothing about sniper shootings doesn't mean they aren't ME related. This could be a new tact they have decided on within the US and something the Gitmo residents would know nothing about.

Until we have some hard evidence one way or the other, dismissing ME theories would be an unsound way to proceed.

[areafiftyone]

I agree about the pay phone. I think this is all a tease to the police. This guy will not be caught that way. He has to make a mistake and leave some REAL evidence or someone knows who he is and turns him in.

[copycat]

While it's easier not to be seen at night, if the killer had that as a top priority, he would attack in rural areas, said Burke. "I'm just hoping it's not a copycat," he said.

Or a different Al Queda cell...

[JameRetief]

Last I heard on FNC was that the message was left outside at the same place where the shooter fired from. I doubt someone trying to pull a prank would have known exactly where the shot was fired.

[Dialup Llama]

>"It sounded like a shotgun right up in your ear," said Wilks,

He must have been very close. I've heard enough rifle shots, and a rifle fired at typical 'range' distances is not very loud at all. It is more like a pop. Any comments?

[copycat]

The Portland Or Al Queda cell WAS practising marksmanship in a stone quarry when discovered. I have noticed a concerted effort to downplay the possibility that this sniper is ME ever since the time they "discredited" the AK-74 info. That effort probably extends to this website...

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Did this person have an "olive complexion"?

[areafiftyone]

Just a gut feeling about this guy. Besides he is only doing this in virginia which leads me to believe that he is a local who lives in Virgina. Those ME guys like to create havoc in other areas at the same time. I can see this guy having some sort of agenda but the random shooting kinda throws that out. I see him as some person who has something against law enforcement because of the taunting he is doing probably someone who hates the cops maybe has a father or close relative in jail or who is on death row etc. Or he could be just someone into wierd tarot cards or cults.

[Lion's Cub]

Thanks for posting this. I went to google to try to find it; but when I went to Richmond Times-Dispatch site from there, all I got was a subscription service.

Matt Wicks, 17, said he had pulled into the parking lot of the adjacent Wendy's restaurant and was talking with two friends when they heard the gunshot.
"It sounded like a shotgun right up in your ear," said Wilks

Gee, that's not what the NYP said:

His wife later told cops that at the time, she heard a noise like a branch snapping, leading police to believe the sound of the shot was altered by a muzzle flash suppresser

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/772890/posts

I think I believe the 17 year old...Although it's possible he was standing much closer to the shooter, I guess.

[doosee]

No, White guy from 40 to 50 ish. That is what made the sighting so unusual. An older guy biking in a yuppie haven. I wont be surprised if this was him.....

[Lion's Cub]

I hope you are right; but to protect your daughter, you might want the admin. to remove your post. These people seem very tech savy.

[areafiftyone]

LOL Serial Biker!!!

[piasa]

Maybe because the number was one belonging to the police or FBI?

[JameRetief]

"It sounded like a shotgun right up in your ear," said Wilks

she heard a noise like a branch snapping

Relative to where the shooter was, both could be right, especialy if Wilks was in a position to receive multiple echoes from close surrounding buildings.

[doosee]

I hope you are right; but to protect your daughter, you might want the admin. to remove your post. These people seem very tech savy.



She is my friend's daughter and unless, God forbid, a cop is in on this, she is pretty safe. She wasnt jogging right where she lives and cannot be traced. They took their names etc so my guess is the police are back already or will be now.

[copycat]

Those ME guys like to create havoc in other areas at the same time. I can see this guy having some sort of agenda but the random shooting kinda throws that out.

Actually, just the opposite. The random shooting shows ANYONE can get hit, and the spread out distance between scenes causes as wide an area as possible to cancel outdoor activities and be "terrorized."

Imagine if the Portland, OR Al Queda cell, which was practising sniping when caught, had begun to kill random victims as the same time as the DC sniper(s)

Everyone in the country would then seem st risk.

[Congressman Billybob]

Note the other story posted this morning that the French have a deserter from their military academy, St. Cyr (their West Point), who is known to have gone to Canada, and then disappeared. It is common among French speakers, to refer to "Monsieur le flic" which in English would be the stilted "Mister Policeman." The deserter had had sniper training.

As another poster pointed out, he might be a French man, rather than a Frenchman. The former includes Algerians. The other article claims that his classmates had "identified him from a composite sketch of the sniper." What "composite sketch"? Or, is there a sketch being circulated in military and intelligence circles, but not to the general public?

We may have a North African, well-trained, French frog shooting Americans for the benefit of assorted tin pot dictators. There might even be a Khadafi angle. (Remember him? He was in all the papers over the Lockerbie plane bombing. We tried to knock him off with a missile in his tent. Perhaps he still remembers that?) This is getting weirder and weirder by the day.

Congressman Billybob

This column is based on the fine work by FReepers in a thread on FR. Click for "Ballistics and Bullsh*t"

Click for "Til Death Do Us Part."

Click for "to Restore Trust in America"

[MomwithHope]

I agree with your point that the "text" could very well be a terrorist threat, either avout Iraq or Israel. I think it is ME terrorists and they have been testing this sniper operation for use in other cities simultaneously. God help us.

[E.Allen]

The sound of a rifle is very dependent upon WHICH CALIBER it is. Typically the small, high velocity rounds, like .223, give a really sharp crack. Larger, slower calibers tend to give more of a "boom" noise that sounds lower pitched.

Most people seem to think the sharp cracks are louder, some one firing a 22-250 or 220 Swift (both fire same slug from a little bigger brass shell at a little higher velocity than .223,) at a range is typically approached by other shooters to see what's making so much noise.

Another factor is barrel length, a shorter barrel than what the caliber is intended for can give a large muzzle blast,
i.e. rifle caliber ammunition in a pistol or short carbine.
This effect is due to substantial unburned powder being ejected out the muzzle that would have been consumed in a normal barrel length.

[CobaltBlue]

>> I have noticed a concerted effort to downplay the possibility that this sniper is ME ever since the time they "discredited" the AK-74 info.<<

That's because the husband saw the guy.

I think they should tell us the race, the approximate build, and the hair color. I think it would be very useful.

[knuthom]

Authorities declined to speculate why, if the shooter is the Washington-area sniper, the assailant struck nearly two hours south of the nation's capital.

Cook would not say whether the location might have been prompted by reports of Washington-area patrols by military surveillance planes able to detect muzzle blasts and help locate vehicles

Was the information about the surveillance plane released or leaked? Either way, someone ought to get in trouble for giving out that information.

[monocle]

I cannot recall any terrorist act in which the terrorist(s) left a note at the scene of the act. Some may have given prior notice or claimed credit afterwards, but I cannot recall any leaving a note at the scene.

[Dialup Llama]

>I agree with your point that the "text" could very well be a terrorist threat, either avout Iraq or Israel. I think it is ME terrorists and they have been testing this sniper operation for use in other cities simultaneously. God help us.

Then Chief Moose is wise to withhold the content of the text, denying the terrorists a forum and forestalling wider operations in other cities.

[rintense]

WOW! Did the police come talk to them?

[blackdog]

There is no evidence. The discussion of evidence is the only thing that Mooseman & Company can tell the public to make the impression that they know something, anything.

Remember all the outrage when a tarrot card was discussed and the chief was ssoooooooo upset about that? Now he is discussing supposed "You call me, I'll call you notes?" Sounds like high school kids working up the nerve to ask for a date! His control of information has certainly taken a marked change lately. What's next? A white/cream color van with a bicycle rack?

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Have you considered that the guy wants to talk and didn't know where to call to get WHOEVER is in charge. He provides an unused phone number (something random dialing would find in a few minutes) and provides that for the cops to activate. I have read a hundred posts saying how dumb the cops are for not calling the number, but how stupid would it be for the sniper to provide a number where he could be reached?

[blackdog]

The only way this guy will be caught is if he forgets to wear his bicycle helmet. We do have laws you know! Snipe all you want, but scoff at our bicycle helmet laws and you're in big trouble mister!

[Fred Mertz]

See unlucky #13.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Wicks said the shot sounded as if it came from near a light post at the edge of the woods

The WWI sniper Herbert McBride discovered that firing a supersonic bullet past a tree or wall produces a loud crack that can help hide the location of the shooter by making the shot seem it came from another place.

[mywholebodyisaweapon]

I know I sound like a nut (who cares?), but I still think it's likely an ex-cop who knows the area police and their habits extremely well. I have nothing against the police (coming from a law enforcement heritage), but when these guys go bad, they go REALLY bad.

[blackdog]

If they catch the person, they want it to be out of public view for reasons such as yours. If this is a cop/government worker, military person, or middle east terrorist, the whole gun control rallying cry as well as our war on terrorism goes right down the crapper. If a guy can roam DC for a whole month picking off the locals like fish in a barrel, just how safe are we from the same types running around with bio-weapons and nuclear material weapons? Guncontrol nuts will make the case FOR ARMING THE PUBLIC if this turns out to be anyone other than some guy named Daryl who married his sister and has his media issued right wing extremist membership card.

They are interviewing all the white trash they can find right now to obtain the perfect patsy. If the real suspect is ever caught they will keep him right next to the files on Vince Foster and you will never see either.

[dmcnash]

I have been thinking the same - like the white guy they passed over so they could insert Chief Moose.

[FITZ]

Looks like this is more and more turning out to be a psycho serial/sniper and not ME terrorists.

Why the plurals 'we' and 'us'?

[Quilla]

I think they should tell us the race, the approximate build, and the hair color. I think it would be very useful.

I agree. What possible harm could come from releasing a description of a, say, 40 year old white male? On the other hand, consider the ramifications (panic, speculation) of describing the killer as olive skinned or Mid-Eastern.

[blackdog]

I wonder if the phone number left by the sniper starts with 976, or if it is the number for STD treatment. Maybe it was meant for chief Moose and it is the phone number for an outplacement/carreer counseling agency. I'm sure the shooter will feel bad if he causes the moose to be cut loose.

[Corin Stormhands]

Local news radio:

Richmond/Henrico police and FBI have pulled over a white or gray colored van at the intersection of Parham and Broad in Richmond.

One arrest. "Very hot suspect."

[webstersII]

A friend of mine tells me that the Tarot Death card does not mean death, it means something like a death of a current circumstance and the birth of a new one. Or something like that. The Tarot card which means physical death is another one but I can't remember which one that was. I'm sure there is someone here on FR that is more knowledgeable about this than I am.

If the guy was really into the occult he would probably know the significance of the Tarot cards and use them appropriately. Of course, maybe that's what he is doing. . . .

Who knows? They don't have enough evidence right now to establish any basis for anything really. We can only hope that this guy screws up and gets caught soon.