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Teacher: African-Americans Most Poorly Behaved Students
NBC4.tv ^ | October 22, 2002

Posted on 10/22/2002 9:45:22 PM PDT by maxcygregg

LOS ANGELES -- A high school science teacher in Pasadena is on paid administrative leave for claiming in a letter to teachers that African-American students are the most poorly behaved at the school.

Scott Phelps has taught at John Muir High School for 12 years. He was put on leave Monday by the Pasadena Unified School District for what board member Ed Honowitz calls a "disturbing" letter placed in teachers' mailboxes on Friday.

Phelps denies he is racist, saying he was trying to make a point that standardized test scores will go down next year at Muir because ninth- and 11th-grade classes are primarily low socio-economic African-Americans lacking academic focus.

"If you look at their scores and track them over the years you will see that they're horrible,' Phelps said. "I'm not singling out a group. I'm not saying that low test scores are caused by low socio-economic students, I'm saying that low scores and low socio-economic students are directly related."

"There are cultural behaviors... but once you talk about it racist," said Phelps.

District spokesman Erik Nasarenko would only say there was an investigation into allegations of misconduct.

"People found the material within the email to be offensive. That is what is under investigation right now," said Nasarenko.

If misconduct is found, Phelps could be terminated.

Phelps wrote that "overwhelmingly, the students whose behavior makes the hallways deafening, who yell out for the teacher and demand immediate attention in class, who cannot seem to stop chatting and are fascinated by each other and relationships but not with academics ... are African-American."

"You can't classify whole groups of kids based on stereotypes," Horowitz said. "In addition, we need to do a good job educating every kid in this district no matter what background they come from."

The Muir student body is about 47 percent African-American and 42 percent Hispanic.


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Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: maxcygregg
How dare he say something that everybody who is offended realizes is true? Notice that apparently nobody is disputing his statement. I wonder what monitoring of security video would show?
2 posted on 10/22/2002 9:47:58 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: maxcygregg
As a former teacher, I can in all honesty say to the school administrators that will decide Phelps' punishment for his "offensive" remarks:

The truth hurts, don't it?
3 posted on 10/22/2002 9:48:38 PM PDT by egarvue
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To: egarvue
Oh be careful what you say. I was already called a racist by a fellow FReeper for stating that Chief Moose was put in on "Affirmative Action". There are always certain people who enjoy twisting words to make you look like an evil racist.
4 posted on 10/22/2002 9:51:21 PM PDT by Dengar01
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To: maxcygregg
If misconduct is found, Phelps could be terminated.

He should sue them and make the district prove him wrong. (and I hate law suits but this wouldn't be frivolus!)

5 posted on 10/22/2002 9:53:06 PM PDT by lonestar
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To: egarvue
.....I'm saying that low scores and low socio-economic students are directly related."

Hasn't there been a recent study (within the last two years) that proved this point the teacher is attempting to make? My senior brain seems to remember reading this somewhere.

The Tarheel

6 posted on 10/22/2002 9:54:32 PM PDT by Tarheel
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To: Dengar01
um,unless you know that to be a fact that was an unwarranted insult to a cop.
7 posted on 10/22/2002 9:54:54 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: maxcygregg
To prove he's not racist, he should take the extra step and say this only applies to African-Americans who are democrats. African-Americans who are Republicans are perfectly civilized.

Then, maybe he and everyone else would come to understand that he is not making a statement about African-Americans per-se, but about democrats. Democrats are our murderers, rapists, car-jackers, and thieves. And they fill our prisons.

8 posted on 10/22/2002 9:56:40 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Dengar01
Yes, I know. I've been called a racist before (even though my cousin is Nigerian, my first girlfriend was Chinese, and my best friends at work are Pakistani and Indian). But the simple truth is that in my experience in teaching in the schools, Black students were the most disruptive, most obnoxious, ill-disciplined, and poorly motivated students. Not racism - simple observation, measurable by even the most cursory review of discipline and academic records. My personal feeling is that the pervasive liberal welfare society has so destroyed the American Black family that it will take decades, perhaps over a hundred years, to repair it. That destruction is reflected in their kids performance at school. Simple truth.
10 posted on 10/22/2002 10:02:58 PM PDT by egarvue
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To: Dengar01
I was already called a racist by a fellow FReeper for stating that Chief Moose was put in on "Affirmative Action".

Whether or not you actually are a racist or bigot doesn't concern me. But what I want to know is do you have any evidence to support your claim about Moose? Maybe you do, but I'd surely like to see your claim substantiated with empirical evidence.

11 posted on 10/22/2002 10:04:48 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: maxcygregg
Should you decide to accept this mission, this mission will be disavowed.
12 posted on 10/22/2002 10:14:53 PM PDT by MistrX
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: maxcygregg
"The films "The Principal" & "The Substitute" are not approved by the N.E.A. Watching these types of films could lead to citizens believing they can affect the established order of things. Alert all travelers in your list."
What has happened with those sleepers?
14 posted on 10/22/2002 10:17:50 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: maxcygregg
I heard him today on the John and Ken show on KFI in Los Angeles. They are all over the story. Those big mouths (and I say that not as a bad thing) are going to give this story very powerful legs. Phelps appears to be a very dedicated teacher who actually cares about kids' learning.
17 posted on 10/22/2002 10:22:25 PM PDT by doug from upland
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To: maxcygregg
"People found the material within the email to be offensive. That is what is under investigation right now," said Nasarenko.

I don't know whether or not the statement is true, but it appears in any event that any truth to the statement is entirely and absolutely irrelevant.

In other words, if there exists a problem, and someone would be offended by a public statement of the existence of that problem, then our society should now prohibit acknowledging the problem.

In which case, all I can say is: I wish 'em a hell of a lot of luck in solving problems that no one can be permitted to admit even exists. They're going to need it.

Ah, the Democratic solution to our problems. Deny they exist. Pay people for being quiet about them, rather than grappling with the problems in any meaningful way. Persecute those who dare to openly observe them.

18 posted on 10/22/2002 10:22:27 PM PDT by john in missouri
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To: egarvue
Sun rises in East. Tape at 11.

When an otherwise dynamic society, en masse, refuses to believe an obvious fact, and goes on to refuse to believe a series of similarly obvious facts, it is doomed.

Shall I recite the roll? Greece, the decadent remnants of Rome, the Burgundians, Russia (several times), the later Khanate, Byzantium, the French monarchy... aw, who cares, no one reads history any more, nor learns from it.

19 posted on 10/22/2002 10:28:14 PM PDT by SAJ
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To: SAJ
Shall I recite the roll? Greece, the decadent remnants of Rome, the Burgundians, Russia (several times), the later Khanate, Byzantium, the French monarchy... aw, who cares, no one reads history any more, nor learns from it.

Rome? Isn't that somewhere in Georgia?

20 posted on 10/22/2002 10:32:25 PM PDT by john in missouri
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To: maxcygregg
It sounds like this teacher tried to state the truth as objectively and dispassionately as he could. It will be entertaining, to say the least, to watch school officials squirm their way out of this one.
21 posted on 10/22/2002 10:45:46 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie
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To: john in missouri
There are some truths that we are not allowed to express.
Here is one of my own pet peeves. One that would suggest I am a racist.

I observe that "Black voters in general are uninformed and easily led, showing no indication that they possess independent thought processes." I offer this little excerpt from the Mason Dixon poll

Results from Florida poll:

RACE BUSH MCBRIDE KUNST UNDECIDED
Whites 53% 40% 1% 6%
Blacks 5% 88% - 8%
Hispanics 63% 32% - 5%

There is no way a free thinking group or class of peoples in a free and open government, could think this lopsided. Unless of course, there was some kind of problem.

Black leaders have been trying to paint me as a racist all of my life. They are finally succeeding.

So...I will just continue to judge a man "On the content of his/her character" and suffer through the name calling.

22 posted on 10/22/2002 10:55:03 PM PDT by bluecollarman
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To: bluecollarman
I'm consistently disappointed to see close to 90% of blacks voting for whatever Democrapic candidate happens to be on the ballot.

It's not all due to groupthink, though I daresay a goodly portion of it is. But unfortunately, conservatives have rarely gotten out there and really fought for the black vote. We've just flat written it off and left it to the liberals.

And yes, part of the problem, unfortunately, is that white conservatives don't always care quite enough about black issues.

Of course, the white liberals don't give a damn about black issues -- else they would do something to actually help solve black problems instead of simply perpetuating them. But the liberals have no compunction about saying they care ("I feel your pain") -- in order to reel in extra votes.

That's my (admittedly non-expert) view, anyway.

23 posted on 10/22/2002 11:11:47 PM PDT by john in missouri
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To: maxcygregg
If misconduct is found, Phelps could be terminated.

...for extreme prejudice?
24 posted on 10/22/2002 11:17:58 PM PDT by SicTransitGloriaMundi
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To: maxcygregg
"You can't classify whole groups of kids based on stereotypes," Horowitz said.

How about classifying whole groups of kids based on observations?

25 posted on 10/22/2002 11:37:09 PM PDT by Moonman62
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To: john in missouri
"And yes, part of the problem, unfortunately, is that white conservatives don't always care quite enough about black issues."

Well, they are never allowed to care. They will be painted as insincere, uninformed and pandering the moment they try.

Democrats jealously guard the black vote, they have become the new slave masters.

Blacks leaders and liberals will also attack any black that expresses a conservative view. It is disheartening.

You are correct, liberals do not really care, they are just using them. But see...even that would be considered a racist statement. It is a no win. Only through integrated churches have I seen hope.



26 posted on 10/22/2002 11:37:49 PM PDT by bluecollarman
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To: SicTransitGloriaMundi
Clever. LOL!
27 posted on 10/22/2002 11:41:22 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: WOSG; egarvue; rdb3
I was already called a racist by a fellow FReeper for stating that Chief Moose was put in on "Affirmative Action".

Yeah, dat's a terrble thing ta paint a law emforcement officer wif.

28 posted on 10/22/2002 11:45:38 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: Moonman62
"You can't classify whole groups of kids based on stereotypes," Horowitz said.

(How about classifying whole groups of kids based on observations?)

LOL! My thoughts exactly.......

29 posted on 10/22/2002 11:48:29 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: LibWhacker
That is so funny and so true! :>
30 posted on 10/23/2002 3:38:03 AM PDT by beard
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To: Tarheel
All of the research from Thomas Sowell's "Ethnic America" backs up exactly what the teacher is saying. His assertion (meticulously documented) was that it is the minority culture of victim hood which is hurting Black people in America, and not racism. And that those minority groups who hold values like education and hard work as their core values (like the Japanese minority in California for example) continually out perform those that do not.

One particularly compelling example he sites is the example of the Japanese minority in California, and the Mexican minority in California. Both groups arrived in the States at approximately the same time, doing (for the most part) the same kind of work (agriculture) but now, the Japanese minority makes approximately 127% of the average annual income, and the Mexicans only 87%. It's very difficult to attribute this to racism.

I'd highly recommend the book.

31 posted on 10/23/2002 4:03:52 AM PDT by tcostell
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To: rdb3
Take a look at Chief Moose's Ph.D. in "Urban Studies" and listen to him speak. Ask yourself whether this is a man who holds a doctorate level education. Sometimes the bias of affirmative action is in the program the student goes through.

As a Ph.D. dropout (for now) I can confirm that most Ph.D.s are not earned in basket weaving. But some are. And the students receiving these lackadaisical Ph.D.s are more likely to be black students like Chief Moose. Harsh truth, but thruth nonetheless.

Congressman Billybob

This column is based on the fine work by FReepers in a thread on FR. Click for "Ballistics and Bullsh*t"

Click for "Til Death Do Us Part."

Click for "to Restore Trust in America"

32 posted on 10/23/2002 4:13:12 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: Dengar01
Same experience here. If my behavior is racist then it is. I am not interested in achieving consensus by denying empirical evidence.
33 posted on 10/23/2002 4:13:21 AM PDT by RWG
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To: maxcygregg
It's true. Black students, especially black boys are awful in the classrooms. They are the most violent and vicious.

Many black girls are also really awful.

It's the welfare culture that they buy into, the mothers (there's no fathers) with the chip on their shoulder, the "you owe me" attitude, the "it's all the school's fault that my boy is bad" attitude.

Get off welfare, get married to one person, stay married, stay working, and I think one would have a better life. Stop having children with different people, be responsible, be on time, be nice!

Many of these so-called black parents are lacking these social skills.
34 posted on 10/23/2002 4:39:05 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: maxcygregg
Here is a LINK to the L.A. Times version of the story.

--Boris

35 posted on 10/23/2002 6:28:26 AM PDT by boris
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To: rdb3; Khepera; elwoodp; MAKnight; condolinda; mafree; Trueblackman; FRlurker; Teacher317; ...
Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

36 posted on 10/23/2002 6:28:58 AM PDT by mhking
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To: LibWhacker
To prove he's not racist, he should take the extra step and say this only applies to African-Americans who are democrats. African-Americans who are Republicans are perfectly civilized.

Then, maybe he and everyone else would come to understand that he is not making a statement about African-Americans per-se, but about democrats. Democrats are our murderers, rapists, car-jackers, and thieves. And they fill our prisons.

Worth repeating....

37 posted on 10/23/2002 6:36:36 AM PDT by bankwalker
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To: maxcygregg
Don't remember the exact percentage, but as I recall, over two thirds of black children are born into single family homes, a polite way of sayng out of wedlock. Lacking direction and discipline at home will certainly go along way towards exhibiting the same traits in a classroom enviroment.
38 posted on 10/23/2002 6:41:42 AM PDT by BluH2o
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To: maxcygregg
Most good basketball players in the NBA, are black.

Ooops! Am I allowed to say that? I am? Whew!

This PC stuff gets confusing. Certain statements may be true, but not all true statements may be uttered. The sensitive, progressive guy needs to know which subset of true statements is currently permissible.

39 posted on 10/23/2002 7:45:31 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Congressman Billybob
I asked for empirical evidence, not a game of "connect the dots." Basically you are asking the readers to infer the affirmative action claim.

No dice.

40 posted on 10/23/2002 7:53:56 AM PDT by rdb3
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To: Jeff Chandler
Yeah, dat's a terrble thing ta paint a law emforcement officer wif.

And your use of broken English (read: Ebonics) is proof of what? Or, what is your point?

41 posted on 10/23/2002 7:55:57 AM PDT by rdb3
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To: bluecollarman
There is no way a free thinking group or class of peoples in a free and open government, could think this lopsided. Unless of course, there was some kind of problem.

Shh!!!! You can't say stuff like that anymore!! LOL. That is an extremely obvious point, though well spoken and seldom acknowledged.

42 posted on 10/23/2002 8:14:55 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: rdb3
What is your point?

Listen to the press conferences and you'll get my point. I don't give my supervisor's lack of eloquence a second thought, but if he were unable to pronounce simple articles, I would question his credentials.

43 posted on 10/23/2002 8:22:49 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: Dengar01
I don't think he was. I think the people in Montgomery County really wanted him.
44 posted on 10/23/2002 8:25:16 AM PDT by ladylib
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To: lonestar
What misconduct???? Putting a letter in teachers' mailboxes, is that the "misconduct"? What are mailboxes for anyway?

Or do they object to the message and want to shoot the messenger?

I guess this guy would know what it's like trying to teach these kids after all these years.

Put cameras in the classroom.
45 posted on 10/23/2002 8:32:11 AM PDT by ladylib
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To: maxcygregg
"overwhelmingly, the students whose behavior makes the hallways deafening, who yell out for the teacher and demand immediate attention in class, who cannot seem to stop chatting and are fascinated by each other and relationships but not with academics ... are African-American."

It seems he said the most poorly behaved students are African-American. Yet the first sentence the the article claims: "...African-American students are the most poorly behaved at the school" There is a huge difference between the two assertions. One is specific, the other a generalization. Just another slanted article using tricks to stir the pot.

46 posted on 10/23/2002 8:36:37 AM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: LibWhacker
To prove he's not racist, he should take the extra step and say this only applies to African-Americans who are democrats. African-Americans who are Republicans are perfectly civilized.

My nomination for post of the day!!!

47 posted on 10/23/2002 8:45:20 AM PDT by Freebird Forever
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To: bluecollarman
There is no way a free thinking group or class of peoples in a free and open government, could think this lopsided. Unless of course, there was some kind of problem.

Fact is, there is a problem.

It can be summed up like this:

Far too many black Americans, led down the primrose path by so-called "leaders" (I call 'em "bleaters") like Jackson, Sharpton, et al, have bought into a whole series of what are essentially liberal lies:

"You are not in control of your destiny. The white man is, and he will never let you succeed. It doesn't really matter what your character is, how hard you work, etc. You are at the bottom and are destined to stay there."

"Academic achievement is for whites. Black kids who achieve academically aren't really black. They aren't really being true to their race. They're traitors."

"The black path to success is through sports. If you can't be a sports superstar, well, you're out of luck."

"Never mind your behavior. Most of your problems are the white man's fault, and the fault of society."

"Anger is the proper response to being in an economically disadvantaged position."

"Crime is a more viable way for young black men to get something out of life."

"Government is your salvation."

"Black conservatives who succeed did so by becoming house slaves to Whitey."

"Black liberals who succeed did so by being courageous and standing up for blacks."

As long as these self-defeating paradigms permeate black society, it's no wonder blacks are restricted wholesale from making any progress.

Fact is, black Americans can succeed, and have done so from the beginning of our nation -- just not in the numbers one would hope for

So what's the answer? The only thing I can think of is for the light of truth to dawn, one mind at a time. The only way this can effectively happen is through those inside the black community who have awakened from the drugged stupor of liberalism. This places a large responsibility on the shoulders of black conservatives, but it can happen. Public speaking, and writing, are keys.

48 posted on 10/23/2002 8:51:42 AM PDT by john in missouri
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To: john in missouri
conservatives have rarely gotten out there and really fought for the black vote.

Wrong. Bush 2 has Rice and Powell to prove he is serious about courting at least moderate and conservative blacks. Most blacks don't think for themselves because they leave it to Jesse and Al to do it for them.


BUMP

49 posted on 10/23/2002 9:28:09 AM PDT by tm22721
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To: tm22721
I said "rarely," I specifically didn't say "never." To some extent, Bush is the exception that proves the rule.

Fact remains, the great majority of the time, conservative Republican candidates have simply written off the black vote. It's too hard to win it. It's too complicated. There's too much Jackson/Sharpton groupthink. It's too hard to swim upstream. The perceived gain, traditionally, hasn't been considered worth the cost of a major investment in effort.

50 posted on 10/23/2002 9:43:02 AM PDT by john in missouri
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