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FoxNews slams Military: Major Label of Sniper is "Army Vet" NOT "Islamic Sniper"
Fox News, 01:00 AM (NewsBreak)

Posted on 10/24/2002 10:18:49 PM PDT by xzins

This is outrageous!

The truth is that

1. Islamics blew up the World Trade Center
2. Islamics blew up a wing of the Pentagon in which many members of the ARMY died.
3. Islamics blew up the USS Cole in which US military died.
4. Islam is the issue with Al Quaeda and Bin Laden.

This man is JOHN MUHAMMED, an Islamic who was "sympathetic" to the 9/11 terrorists.

He's been out of the Army for years. He never received specialized training in sniping in the Army. He DIDN'T MAKE IT in the Army.

But the lead is: "Army Vet"

As a 20 year Army retiree, I deeply resent this, but I resent even more the politically correct culture that makes it impossible to call an islamic terrorist an islamic terrorist.


TOPICS: Breaking News
KEYWORDS: correctness; fox; islam; labels; military; political; sniper; terrorism
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To: sneakypete
John Wayne Gacey didn't claim to kill people for Jesus. In fact, if he had it would have been contrary to the teachings of Jesus, whereas verses in the Koran actually support and encourage this terrorist's behavior

Son of Sam didn't shoot young women for Jehovah. Neither Gacey or Sam were emulating role models from their local place of worship, or following instructions from a leader.


Different, obvously, different. Islamic Terrorist.
151 posted on 10/25/2002 6:21:03 AM PDT by Scarlet_Pimpernil
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Comment #152 Removed by Moderator

To: wirestripper
You are exactly right. I couldn't phrase what I was thinking until I read your post.
153 posted on 10/25/2002 6:24:25 AM PDT by bulldogs
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To: Travis McGee
It burns me every time they show this slime, and the next frame shows soldiers training, equating the two.

Last night, either Greta von Cistern or H&C showed a bunch of sniper trainees in ghillie suits shooting bolt action rifles, while talking about John Mohammad having qualified expert with the M-16. That doesn't exactly qualify as expert reporting on my range.

154 posted on 10/25/2002 6:29:01 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: rwfromkansas
If its not rocket science to say he is a muslim, why isn't anyone saying it?

How would like to be introduced as a cub scout? Perhaps you were in the cub scouts years ago, when a tike, before getting kicked out for being unable to cut it ...you might say but hey, I'm a successful journalist I did this and did that since then....well, well? (you were probably a great cub scout, just completing the analogy, no freeper cheap shot as is so common on this thread intended)
There are plenty of other ways to positively identify who he is that are better, they just go against the liberal ideology for the folks who are still disappointed that it didn't end up being Tim McVeigh's half brother
155 posted on 10/25/2002 6:29:47 AM PDT by Scarlet_Pimpernil
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To: schmidt
There is a difference between someone who has served the United States for 20 years or more and has retired, and there is a difference between a soldier that has actually been to the Gulf during Desert Storm vs. driving a Buffalo truck around in Germany, And there is definitely a difference in a solder that has been honorably discharged compared to a dipsh*t that was dis-honorably (or other than honorably) discharged. This is a slap in the face to every military (army) person by aligning this scumbag to then instead of more recent influences, say such as Farrakhan, or Islam.
156 posted on 10/25/2002 6:31:25 AM PDT by KineticKitty
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To: schmidt
He's a democrat.....why not "Democrat Sniper Murderer."

He's a follower of Farrakhan....why not "Nation of Islam Sniper Murderer."

He's a sympathizer with the murders of 9/11. "9/11 Sympathizer Sniper Murderer."

It's not the reporting....It's the LEAD LABEL thing that ticks me off.

Even "Dishonorably Discharged Vet Sniper Murderer."

157 posted on 10/25/2002 6:31:26 AM PDT by xzins
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To: ArrogantBustard
I agree. An obvious truth no one is saying (perhaps because it would scare people) is that with a fine weapon like he had, properly cleaned and sited in, on a tripod, in the prone position, firing only one shot at the perfect target of opportunity tha tis perfectly still......just about anybody who spent anytime at all firing the weapon could do it.
158 posted on 10/25/2002 6:33:33 AM PDT by Scarlet_Pimpernil
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To: Scarlet_Pimpernil
If its not rocket science to say he is a muslim, why isn't anyone saying it?

Maybe,......because nobody knows how many other 'muslims' are 'in' (throughout) the U.S. military,.....and don't want that question asked.

159 posted on 10/25/2002 6:34:22 AM PDT by maestro
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To: Dave S
It doesn't matter if he is Al qaeda or not. He is following their lead, which in my mind, makes him Al Queda. I think that all of Islam is Al Queda, it's just a question of degree.
160 posted on 10/25/2002 6:34:56 AM PDT by bulldogs
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To: xzins
Does Louis Farrakhan have any links to any terrorist org's in the MidEast? Didn't he visit some recently?

Went to Libya I think.. Then he came home and swapped spit on stage with Ed Rendell in PA.

161 posted on 10/25/2002 6:35:20 AM PDT by bankwalker
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To: Scarlet_Pimpernil
With a tripod and scope ANYONE with relatively decent eyesight could do it. Even without training it would take a few practice shots in a secluded area to figure it out.
162 posted on 10/25/2002 6:38:52 AM PDT by xzins
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To: eccl1212
THEY ARE ALL AL QUEDA. IT IS A MATTER OF DEGREE.
163 posted on 10/25/2002 6:41:46 AM PDT by bulldogs
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To: ALOHA RONNIE; scholar
"...How can this Sniper be called a 'Gulf War Vet' when all he did during that war was carry water in G-E-R-M-A-N-Y...???"

Yours is an excellent question to which there're a hundred more just like it waiting in the wings to be asked.
The fact the guy recieved a *DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE*, notwithstanding??

But if we were to sit down & wait for this story to be reported properly; that is, with the who, what, where, when & *whys* all answered & just as it really is?
We'd be long dead & buried, still waiting.

Sarge?
We've seen this *act* several times before, witnessed the smear of our military & the people serving.
It's the SOS perpetrated by the same old players.
America's Liberal-Socialist media at it, again.

Just a different name behind the slander, is all.
Nothing has changed in over 35 years.

Fox News: "We Report, YOU Decide."
HA!
Whatdda lousy joke.

...how stupid could we be?

164 posted on 10/25/2002 6:42:33 AM PDT by Landru
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To: sneakypete
Only in the same sense as Gacey and Berkowitz were Catholic and Jewish terrorists. There are no reports yet that he was a member of Al Queida or any other radical Muslim group that is at war with the US. Until and unless proof of this is given,he is just murdering criminal scum.

That's a heck of a high standard. You have the LAX shooter, the bus slasher, Padilla, and numerous reports of creepy towelheads surveilling sites in the U.S. Are they all super-tangos direct from Osama's cave? Probably not. They are however the reason we MUST deport all illegal Moslems in the U.S., and review the immigration status of all legal ones for ties to Wahhabi and other Jihadist organizations, and threat the radical Mosques like we treat skinhead Christian Identity neo-Nazi "churches." The sniper is one of the second and third tier of the terrorist hierarchy, and part of the water in which the terrorist fish swim. We need to drain that swamp.

165 posted on 10/25/2002 6:42:43 AM PDT by eno_
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To: xzins
a few practice shots in a secluded area

Or in your best bud's back yard ...

166 posted on 10/25/2002 6:43:36 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: TexVet
I wonder if he was a registered voter at one time? Maybe we could get the papers to proclaim a mad ex-voter started killing people? Maybe derranged ex-homeless man?

I'd like to know his political party affiliation. If he's a registered Democrat, we should be shouting this from the rooftops.

167 posted on 10/25/2002 6:51:54 AM PDT by Denver Ditdat
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To: xzins
PC will be our downfall.
And those that represent it will be the cause.
WE are at war with an enemy hiding behide a religion. They are aided in their efforts by those in gum't that turn the other way, and don't profile... (WONDER WHY MOOSEY HATES PROFILING?)
Calypso Louie is a hater. He disdains whites, and just as much despises the house N.......S (farakhan's words, not mine) he can't press into his organization.
These guys performed terrorism. They devastated the local economy. They killed wantonly.
They did this because they are muslim, taught to hate OTHERS, to give their own life for the cause of their god. They were TAUGHT to do this by some who will disenfranchise other for their own benefits. They ARE part of an organized movement, though maybe not directly controlled by it. Their actions represent that which the AQ hope for, an attack at our way of life.
The money may be a smokescreen, but we will NEVER know the truth about these guys!
It is not going away. This tactic was predicted, and may be seen all over the country before long...
this is just an opinion, not based on fact, just GUT!
168 posted on 10/25/2002 6:55:01 AM PDT by pageonetoo
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To: Reagan Man
Got news for you
- he is islamic
- he voiced sympathy for Atta and the other 9/11 murderers/terrorists/hijackers

Whether Bin Laden's chain of command told him to act or even trained him to act, irrelevant. Muhammad is an Islamic terrorist.

169 posted on 10/25/2002 7:00:24 AM PDT by Triple
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To: Travis McGee
"Sorry bud, you want to play sissy tiddlywinks, go to another forum. Say stupid crap that spits on the military, and I WILL jump on your $#!+."

>POW!<

Such determination might not be real *popular* 'round here with a certain ilk I'd call the, "Meals on Wheels Brigade," y'know.
Not that you should care, mind you.

Be that as it may I'd fight, & die, next to a man like yourself, anyday.

...btw; you realize you're an anachronism, right? ;^)

170 posted on 10/25/2002 7:11:14 AM PDT by Landru
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To: xzins
You obviously don't have a 20 year career in the Army and KNOW that the Army doesn't produce this kind of idiot.

Oh, please. The guy received his firearms training in the Army. If he didn't have the weapons familiarity he learned in the Army, this might not have happened. That's just reality. It's like you guys are arguing for some sort of gag order barring any mention of the fact that he is an army vet.

Most of us recall a famous former Marine who used his weapons training to kill. I'm a Marine, and don't take any offense at mentions of that because its just stating a fact. Nobody is saying that all army veterans are kooks or serial murderers. If you guys are perceiving it that way, then that's just your own paranoia. And if someone actually is saying that, then condemn them for the blanket statement. Don't condemn them for mentioning a detail that's relevant to painting an accurate overall picture of this guy. The truth is that neither the Army nor the Marines have any sort of immunity from producing a**holes.

As someone else pointed out early, the guy's name clearly identifies him as a moslem, so that's not exactly a secret. Its legitimate for people to wonder how he learned to shoot and, to that extent, his army experience is a relevant element of the story that should be reported. Lighten up. Heck, I'm a Gulf War vet, but I think its interesting that this guy was too. I don't take that as a slam or accusation against Gulf War vets in general. It's just reporting a story.

171 posted on 10/25/2002 7:26:34 AM PDT by XJarhead
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Comment #172 Removed by Moderator

To: Yehuda
Islam has shown to be a continual and current motivator of those who slaughter innocent civilians

Yes, and it is telling that this John Mohammad changed his name right after 9/11 as if he had found his purpose.

173 posted on 10/25/2002 7:35:38 AM PDT by Sender
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To: maestro
If its not rocket science to say he is a muslim, why isn't anyone saying it?

Because since his last name is being given as MUHAMMAD, it should be obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells that he's a moslem. For a headline, you try to avoid redundancies, and labeling a guy named MUHAMMAD a moslem is pretty damned redundant.

As for his discharge, etc.... Give it time. People are putting together more complete stories on this guy, and I'm sure there will be stuff discussing the details of his army career, his subsequent conversion to Islam, and whatever other things in his life may be relevant to how and why he did what he did.

But lots of people were wondering about this guy's training. Was he a true "sniper"? Was he someone trained in some terrorist training camp in Afghansitan? How did he get his weapons training? Those were all fair questions for people to ask, particularly civilians who might not have been able to evaluate for themselves how easy these shots were. For that reason, reporting that he's an Army vet with an Expert qual. is very relevant.

174 posted on 10/25/2002 7:36:41 AM PDT by XJarhead
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To: xzins
I can't take credit for that one, it's been all over Free Republic the past two days. Several other Freepers honed in on it immediately though!
175 posted on 10/25/2002 8:03:05 AM PDT by Caipirabob
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To: xzins
I have never read the Koran but my understanding is that Islam teaches that if the infidels don't convert to Islam, they must be put to death. Now if that is true, then how can it be said that it is peace?
176 posted on 10/25/2002 8:03:23 AM PDT by beachn4fun
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To: xzins
I agree. Thanks Snow Bunny!

God Bless America!
177 posted on 10/25/2002 8:05:47 AM PDT by Lilly
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To: KineticKitty
Funny how they make it sound like he received some specialized sniper training while in the military, just because he shot good

As I understand it, he had an expert marksmanship ribbon. Big deal. In regular, routine training with a firearm -- which everyone in the military receives, regardless if they are a cook or a mechanic -- he shot well enough to qualify "expert." So did I, as an intelligence officer in the USAF. And trust me, I just got lucky, having never fired a weapon before in my life. My commander (who didn't shoot "expert," by the way) had a field day calling me "Deadeye." What a crock.

178 posted on 10/25/2002 8:08:47 AM PDT by pettifogger
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To: xzins
I am not denigrating the army or anything. All I am saying is that his army period is the known time when he was involved with weapons. I am not saying the army caused him to do what he did. I also think it is his conversion to Islam. But, I do not think it is journalistically fair to speculate.
179 posted on 10/25/2002 8:09:13 AM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: xzins
But in Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon WHICH also TAKE Mastercard

Do you really think these people couldn't be "reached" in any of those places? Or even that the rulers/dictators in those places would allow them to keep the money? It doesn't do you any good to get all that money if you don't get to keep it or enjoy it.

It wouldn't take any time at all to make a credit transfer, would it....IF the account had that much credit available and blockage prevented by sniper/murder extortion.

Are you sure a bank would even accept a credit transfer like this,KNOWING that the transfer will be challenged in court as being made under stress? They would maybe end up being responsible for the whole 10 mil,and blocked from doing business with other banks if they tried to get out of it. I just flat don't believe any bank would accept that transfer,knowing where it came from.

180 posted on 10/25/2002 8:09:56 AM PDT by sneakypete
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To: LibWhacker
7) A democrat

do we know this for sure?
181 posted on 10/25/2002 8:11:01 AM PDT by Stone Mountain
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To: Reagan Man
Like many others, you seem to feel that since you personally hadn't seen or heard something then it didn't happen. So who's the jerk?
182 posted on 10/25/2002 8:12:31 AM PDT by OldFriend
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To: jacquej
Please enlighten me as to which sub-groups of Catholics and Jews call for sniping, bombing, flying airplanes into skyscrapers, etc.

Ever heard of the IRA or the Stern Gang? Those are just a couple of the most famous. There are other smaller and less well-known groups.

183 posted on 10/25/2002 8:13:23 AM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Scarlet_Pimpernil
John Wayne Gacey didn't claim to kill people for Jesus.

I'm not aware of either of these two claiming they were killing for Mohammed,either. They were definitely killing for profit,and quite likely for kicks.

Son of Sam didn't shoot young women for Jehovah.

See the above.

Neither Gacey or Sam were emulating role models from their local place of worship, or following instructions from a leader.

Neither were either of these two murderers. Don't let this get in the way of your much desired "Holy War",though. I just wish you and others would be more honest about it,and admit you just want a excuse to kill members of a competing religious cult.

Different, obvously, different. Islamic Terrorist.

Yeah,they talk and dress different than the Christian or Jewish terrorists,but the end result and goals are the same.

184 posted on 10/25/2002 8:22:13 AM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Stone Mountain
being originally from the south, this muhammed guy may have gone into the military ALREADING KNOWING how to point a rifle, and hit a target. Coming illegally from Jamaica, the young guy came here to steal from others, and yes, there are islamic REBELS in Jamaica, too!
The islamic movement proselytizes where it can, and forces you into the movement WHERE IT CAN.
the streets of Detroit, and other liberal black bastions, have many more islamists seeking the destruction of our country's way of life. Who is going to stop them? PC only stops us!
It may be nothing more than their jealousy that some have been able to do something with their lives, while others were dealing drugs, and cutting classes. It may be that these are just greedy, evil beings (not people).
A recent post on this site shows what happens when someone labels blacks in the schools as being the largest single source of disruption. He lost his job for telling truth, and not following the RAT PC!
Bigotry is also NOT allowing TRUTH!
page
185 posted on 10/25/2002 8:24:41 AM PDT by pageonetoo
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To: sneakypete
Are you sure a bank would even accept a credit transfer like this,KNOWING that the transfer will be challenged in court as being made under stress? They

the bank would have it assured by the government.

John Mu'Mad would keep shooting people until the transaction cleared. Who was he connected to who would send the message, "transaction cleared."

186 posted on 10/25/2002 8:26:28 AM PDT by xzins
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To: pageonetoo
My question was if you knew for sure that this guy was a democrat. Can I take it that you don't?
187 posted on 10/25/2002 8:28:58 AM PDT by Stone Mountain
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To: Stone Mountain
He's an African-American follower of Louis Farrakhan. If I were to use the voting stats from the last election, I'd be hard pressed NOT to bet that any random african american doesn't vote democratic....it was like 93% for the Dem's.
188 posted on 10/25/2002 8:29:04 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
Thanks for the ping...I agree with you wholeheartedly and when hubby got home from slaving away on recruiting duty last night I told him I was really irritated at the way this guy's vet status was being reported. The implication that his Army service was the reason behind his murdererous spree just burns me up to no end!!

Especially the fact that they keep saying over and over he was stationed at Ft. Lewis which is a "major sniper training center" even though this guy never received sniper training and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Army doesn't even have a sniper school at Lewis (I thought they were at Benning and Bragg). Then they're making a big deal over his expert marksman badge.

This guy has been out of the Army for 7-8 years!! Hubby is an expert marksman and was a sniper/AT section sgt in 3rd Ranger Batt and I don't see him running around killing people! This guy was a whacko Muslim with a grudge against his own country and evidence has been reported that he was not exactly a stellar soldier anyways. His service in the Army has nothing to do with his rampage anyways, IMO.

189 posted on 10/25/2002 8:30:03 AM PDT by rangerwife
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To: eno_
Are they all super-tangos direct from Osama's cave? Probably not.

What's with all this "tango" crap? I keep seeing it more and more. Can't you people speak English?

They are however the reason we MUST deport all illegal Moslems in the U.S.,

"Illegal" is the only reason we need to deport them,as well as the illegal alien Mexican Catholics,voo doo followers from Haiti,heathens from Holland,etc,etc,etc. I don't give a damn about their religion or lack of religion. If they are illegal aliens,they need to be deported,period!

and review the immigration status of all legal ones for ties to Wahhabi and other Jihadist organizations, and threat the radical Mosques like we treat skinhead Christian Identity neo-Nazi "churches."

I'm in total agreement with this,but unfortunately,the Christian Identity people seem to be all home-grown. We can' t deport them. Then again,there ain't billions of them running around,either. The fact remains we don't need any special justification to deport foreigners who are members of any organization whose goals are to overthrow the US Constitution and our Republican form of government. Their philoposy alone is all the justification we need. Good riddance to bad trash.

190 posted on 10/25/2002 8:30:39 AM PDT by sneakypete
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Comment #191 Removed by Moderator

To: rangerwife
Exactly....your family is another example of the awesome Americans who regularly defend this nation and regularly die for it.

This guy couldn't even make it....dishonorable discharge.

There are far, far more like your husband than like this dirtbag John Mu'Mad.

192 posted on 10/25/2002 8:34:41 AM PDT by xzins
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To: pageonetoo
And I am not trying to denigrate the black community as a whole, just stating the fact that the pervasive culture in the inner city is more towards self-indulgent excesses of drugs and rampant abusive sex.
The music spawned by this culture has pervaded the airwaves, and now our young children want to emulate these thugs, and self-proclaimed 'gangstas'.
Sorry, I was raised in a military household, on and around military bases, most of the time. I lived next door to all races in our enlisted community, and the blacks, whites, hispanics, filipinos, and others that were my friends and neighbors, had a similar mindset.
Respect for the other person has always been at the top of the list. But when a group is dominated by disrespect and animous toward me based on my race and religion, I can only respond to them with a kind word, and keep my guns warm!
Today, it seems that many, of the blacks (and other minorities) in power, do all they can to harm the country, and create more schisms in our homes and communities. I can only reach out to those around me, and pray with them that this will not be the way we end it!
I hope to be at the Washington Monument tomorrow, and hope there will be many of our "minority" represented. That includes WASP's!
Follow the money!
Money is power!
State truth, and don't back up!

193 posted on 10/25/2002 8:41:09 AM PDT by pageonetoo
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To: sneakypete
Don't let your desire for peace get in the way of reality. John Wayne Gacey didn't change his name to John Wayne Elijah or Jesus or have any other such epiphany. They also didn't train at a JudeoChristian terrorist training camp. They didn't claim to be sympathetic toward mass murders done in the name of faith...and sad to say, there were a quite a few judeochristian examples to point to before 911 back through history

The truth is, the investigators likely know why they did what they did, but we don't have all the facts. Still not time to start on your personal jihad against religions, and maybe hard realities in general.

Unless of course, you are ready to proclaim with the latest Islamic terrorist "I am God".
194 posted on 10/25/2002 8:46:51 AM PDT by Scarlet_Pimpernil
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To: xzins
the bank would have it assured by the government.

No they wouldn't. Any government that would agree to do something like this would be comitting political suicide. Since there is NOTHING any gooberment in the world lusts after more than their own survival,this wouldn't happen.

The international banking community isn't really all that big. These guys all know one another,and they all are in business with the various governments. There is no way they would allow themselves to be involved with something like this unless given private assurances behind the scenes. They don't approve of any fraud or extortion that doesn't benefit them.

195 posted on 10/25/2002 8:53:44 AM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Scarlet_Pimpernil
Unless of course, you are ready to proclaim with the latest Islamic terrorist "I am God".

Oh,yeah. I'm a Islamic fundie terrorist. You're just too clever for me. What gave me away?

196 posted on 10/25/2002 9:00:02 AM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Stone Mountain
do we know this for sure?

Yes, he could have been a member of the BMR!....( black muslim republicans):{sarcasm}

197 posted on 10/25/2002 9:02:36 AM PDT by Cold Heat
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Comment #198 Removed by Moderator

To: CatAtomic
>>>Must say I'm surprised at the negative posts you got.

I was surprised too.

There seems to be quite a few FReepers lately, who've allowed their emotions to get the better of them and confronting others is their outlet to vent.

199 posted on 10/25/2002 9:35:01 AM PDT by Reagan Man
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To: Huck
>>>I'm with you Reagan Man, but there's no point arguing about it. Let folks vent.

Exactly. Thanks Huck.

200 posted on 10/25/2002 9:36:52 AM PDT by Reagan Man
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