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Gun Control Group Warns of 'Sniper Subculture'
cns news ^ | 25 oct 02 | Robert B. Bluey

Posted on 10/25/2002 7:35:27 AM PDT by white trash redneck

An underground "sniper subculture" is brewing in the United States thanks to the aggressive marketing of so-called sniper rifles by gun manufacturers and lax gun-control regulations, according to a gun-control advocacy group.

The Violence Policy Center held a press briefing on the purported sniper subculture Thursday, only hours after police apprehended two suspects with alleged connections to the deaths of 10 people in the Washington, D.C., area. The group claims it warned of such an episode more than three years ago in its "One Shot, One Kill" report.

Tom Diaz, the group's senior policy analyst, warned that more incidents, similar to the shootings in the last three weeks, could happen unless federal and state lawmakers curb the sale of some long-guns and place new restrictions on shooting schools that teach individuals how to use firearms.

"From everything we see about the growth of books, the growth of websites, the apparent commercial success of these schools, we believe this subculture is growing," he said.

The resources available to gun owners, Diaz said, illustrate the ease with which anyone could carry out shootings similar to those in the Washington region.

"I don't know what their [snipers'] background or motivation are, but I know what they have been doing is exactly what you can learn from these books or at these schools," he said.

Police arrested John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo on federal firearms charges early Thursday morning. Authorities have not yet conclusively connected the pair to the shootings.

Joe Waldron, the executive director of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, said Diaz is using the shootings to advance his political agenda.

"This is another attempt by the Violence Policy Center to exploit tragedy and select buzz words that appeal to people's emotions," Waldron said. "In this case, they're saying it's the sniper subculture. Are there people who pay attention to those things? Yeah, but I don't believe it exists as an identifiable subculture."

But Diaz said one has to look no further than bookstores and the Internet to find evidence of the trend. While he does think it is appropriate to regulate schools that train gun owners, he shied away from any government interference with gun publications.

"I don't advocate for any restriction on the books and videos," Diaz said. "If people think it's morally a good thing to put these things out and if Amazon and Barnes & Noble are comfortable selling books that show how to shoot down helicopters and kill other human beings, then so be it."

He was not as lenient, though, when it came to what he termed "sniper schools," training centers that teach long-range shooting, located throughout the United States. While he said some limit training to police or military officers, others invite anyone seeking instruction to attend.

"Police and military snipers are well-screened," he said. "We have no bone to pick with them. They have an honorable and necessary profession, but we're concerned about the bleed-over into the civilian world."

Waldron said the facilities Diaz referred to have done a good job teaching people how to properly and appropriately use firearms. He added that training schools require background checks before any student is allowed to participate.

In addition, Diaz said the federal government should enact stricter gun-control measures. Tougher restrictions must be placed on so-called sniper rifles, such as the .50, .308, and .223 calibers, he said.

"The .50 caliber semi-automatic rifle, under federal law, is less regulated than a handgun," Diaz said. "That type of rifle ought to be brought under the National Firearms Act, a law that regulates machine guns."

Erich Pratt, spokesman for Gun Owners of America, said such a move would be unwarranted since those rifles are primarily used for hunting. He said the .50 caliber rifle is an "extremely big and bulky" firearm and he was unaware if one had ever been used to commit a crime.

According to a November 2001 Bureau of Justice Statistics report, rifles of all calibers were used in 1.3 percent of the crimes committed by felons currently serving sentences in state or federal prisons. The report did not specify the caliber of weapons used by the offenders.

Pratt echoed Waldron's concern that Diaz was merely using the recent spate of shootings to capitalize on efforts to impose greater restrictions on Second Amendment rights of citizens.

"They jump on every chance the can to demonize gun owners and firearms," Pratt said. "There have been 10 tragic murders in the last few weeks, but in that same time there have been thousands of self-defense cases [with firearms] that haven't grabbed the headlines."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; snipers; vpc
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It seems to me that there have been more military trained mass murder "snipers," like this creep Mohammed and Charles Starkweather in Austin, than there have been civilian trained members of the "sniper culture." In fact, I believe that there have been exactly zero civilian trained members of the "sniper culture" who have perpetrated atrocities like this.
1 posted on 10/25/2002 7:35:27 AM PDT by white trash redneck
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To: *bang_list

2 posted on 10/25/2002 7:38:19 AM PDT by Joe Brower
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To: white trash redneck
For some reason these anti-gun nuts seem to think that someone is going to come sniping for them personally. They're kooks!
3 posted on 10/25/2002 7:42:07 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: white trash redneck
They are shameless - Muhammad was not remotely part of any private sniper training group.
4 posted on 10/25/2002 7:43:03 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: white trash redneck
What about the Islamic jihadist subculture?
5 posted on 10/25/2002 7:46:08 AM PDT by valkyrieanne
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To: white trash redneck
Why all the concern about a "sniper subculture" and not a word about the "pop-a-cap-in-yo-ass" rap/hip-hop culture?
6 posted on 10/25/2002 7:48:12 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: white trash redneck
Tougher restrictions must be placed on so-called sniper rifles, such as the .50, .308, and .223 calibers, he said.

.50, .308, .223...How about the 223, the 50, and everything in between, just to make sure that we did not miss any other potential "sniper" rifle calibers. We already know handguns are evil. A large number of shotguns are used in crime, so we should go ahead and ban them too. Of course, this does not mean that anyone is against honest use of proper sporting guns. [sarcasm on]

7 posted on 10/25/2002 7:50:26 AM PDT by Stat-boy
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To: white trash redneck
...Charles Starkweather in Austin...

If you're referring to the "Texas Tower Sniper", it's Charles Whitman.

8 posted on 10/25/2002 7:53:39 AM PDT by DuncanWaring
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To: BenLurkin
It is just their fear, ignorance, and hoplophobia! I usually get them to burn by telling them, "On gun ownership, I'm 'pro-choice'." They practically have a seizure, right there on the spot!
9 posted on 10/25/2002 7:57:01 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: white trash redneck; dcwusmc
Wonder why VPC jumped past the 30.06??? My Garand is quite the gem at long range, and is well known to be extremely accurate out to 1000 yds with iron sight's. We all knew they would eventually come after the long gun's, as soon as they figured they couldn't demonize handgun's effectively any longer. The sniper wanna be was just the ticket for 'em. Isn't VPC run by that scumbag Morris Dee's?, or does he head up some other left/wacko group? Anyway, bttt...

dcw, you're a Garand kinda guy, thought you might want to see this.Blackbird.
10 posted on 10/25/2002 7:57:27 AM PDT by BlackbirdSST
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To: BenLurkin
For some reason these anti-gun nuts seem to think that someone is going to come sniping for them personally

I can't help wondering if this would be a bad thing or not. Gun control fanatics such as Diaz will never be satisfied as long as a single solitary ordinary citized has the slightest means of self-defense. So, if you follow gun control to its obvious conclusion there are only three end points.

  1. We are all totally disarmed and enslaved.
  2. We are all dead
  3. They are all dead
They work tirelessly to disarm and enslave us. Appeals to logic are useless, because it isn't a logical issue with them. It's an issue of dogma or doxology. The Bill of Rights means nothing to them. Our freedom is less than nothing to them, in fact our freedom is one of the things that they, being moral cowards, envy, hate and fear. Our safety is meaningless to them. They can only see in one dimension, they will never change, so if someone silenced a few of the more vocal ones would this necessarily be bad?
11 posted on 10/25/2002 7:58:20 AM PDT by from occupied ga
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To: white trash redneck
A bit of a stretch from the number-one antigun propaganda machine. They walk a fine line between being perceived as "experts" and looking extremely stupid when they try to shift perceptions by lumping dissimilar problems together to frighten people. Here they just look stupid.
12 posted on 10/25/2002 7:59:16 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Stat-boy
Dont forget black powder! Why that Sharps could kill at 1200 yards! Heck, even the old Kentucky long rifle could hold a 5" circle at 100 yards.
13 posted on 10/25/2002 7:59:53 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: white trash redneck
Remember, any and all rifles used for deer hunting are "high powered sniper rifles". That's the real motivaton behind the anti-gun-nazis.
14 posted on 10/25/2002 8:00:51 AM PDT by A. Patriot
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To: BenLurkin
1. There is a sniper sub-culture in America. They are called
Muslim terrorists.

2. About one more stupid gun law and they will be right.
There will be people coming after them.
15 posted on 10/25/2002 8:03:23 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: from occupied ga
Our freedom is less than nothing to them, in fact our freedom is one of the things that they, being moral cowards, envy, hate and fear.

Those who support gun control should be arrested and tried for sedition against the Bill of Rights.

16 posted on 10/25/2002 8:08:30 AM PDT by Mulder
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To: sheik yerbouty
It is just their fear, ignorance, and hoplophobia!

10-4 on hoplophobia. Obviously you've read Jeff Cooper's writings. As Col. Cooper points out these liberal anti-gunners don't understand weapons and don't want anyone having power they don't have and are afraid of.

Per gun schools, the good ones require background information and a sign-off from a responsible reference as part of the application process.

And what's wrong with "civilians" having "sniper" training anyway? A well-trained civilian can become a counter-sniper in situations like what happened in the DC area or elsewhere. Don't be telling me I can't get training that helps me survive in a dangerous situation or take the fight to the bad guys.

17 posted on 10/25/2002 8:10:44 AM PDT by toddst
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To: white trash redneck
One thing to notice is how quickly the leftists are trying to exploit the tragedy to push their misguided policies. Much as I hate the tactic, it's gotten to the point that it's necessary for the right to do the same thing. Let's use the tragedy to remind people that Jihad is going on within our borders. Until we eliminate it (with extreme prejudice if necessary) we can just look forward to more violence.
18 posted on 10/25/2002 8:11:29 AM PDT by Our man in washington
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To: white trash redneck
Lets close the shooting schools so that all future gun owners are not properly trained on how to use them and are not advised on the responsibilities that go along with gun ownership.
These people just keep getting stupider and stupider. Un-eff'ing believable!
19 posted on 10/25/2002 8:13:47 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS
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To: taxcontrol
Dont forget black powder! Why that Sharps could kill at 1200 yards! Heck, even the old Kentucky long rifle could hold a 5" circle at 100 yards.

LOL! You are absolutely correct. In addition, we need to take immediate actions to ban whatever gun it was that Tom Selleck used in Quigley Down Under.

20 posted on 10/25/2002 8:15:40 AM PDT by Stat-boy
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