Skip to comments.'Marksman' Or 'Expert' Rating No Big Deal In Army, Soldiers Point Out
Posted on 10/28/2002 12:38:49 PM PST by Stand Watch Listen
Qualifying as an "expert marksman" is no extraordinary achievement for soldiers in the Army.
In basic training and usually once a year, soldiers have to qualify with their service weapon. To earn their "expert" badge, they've got to hit 36 out of 40 targets from distances of 50 to 300 meters, officials said.
Soldiers and former soldiers said it's not a particularly tough test. And they said it shouldn't be read as any indication that D.C. sniper suspect John Muhammad achieved any unusual level of proficiency during his time in the Army.
"This expert badge this guy got is completely meaningless," said Gene Econ, a retired infantry major who trains soldiers in marksmanship. "The public needs to know that in the Army, that's pretty much meaningless."
Shooting a rifle, using camouflage and concealment are among the fundamental skills that all soldiers learn in their nine weeks of basic training, soldiers, veterans and Army officials said.
"You shoot from different positions at different targets," Spc. Vicente Hidalgo said Thursday after a haircut at Bell's Barber Shop II in Tillicum. "You learn aiming, breathing and holding the weapon steady."
He said 95 percent of soldiers pass the basic rifle marksmanship course. Others said about one in five qualify as expert.
"They train you on that a lot," said Hidalgo, who works in the pharmacy at Madigan Army Medical Center. "There are a few people who are too nervous to do it."
After the course, he said, anybody would be able to shoot a target 100 yards away - the range from which the D.C. sniper is reported to have shot his victims.
Don Kell, 63, an Army and Vietnam veteran from Tillicum, agreed, saying he can hit "a nickel or even a dime from 100 yards away."
While in the Army, Kell said, he qualified with several firearms including M-1 and M-16 rifles.
The Pentagon said Muhammad, a combat engineer, qualified expert on the M-16 and with hand grenades. He was last stationed at Fort Lewis in 1994.
Qualifying as an expert marksman and becoming a sniper are "apples and oranges," said Lt. Col. Stephen Barger, the Fort Lewis spokesman.
Sniper training involves a lot more than shooting, officials said. Candidates are put through a five-week course, screened for psychiatric and emotional problems, and must have advanced infantry skills.
Soldiers with disciplinary problems are kicked out of the program, officials said.
Muhammad did not receive sniper training in the Army, the Pentagon said in a news release.
"This guy's ability to point a rifle barrel, hit a 20-inch-by-30-inch target from 100 yards, firing with the barrel stabilized with a tripod ... there's no marksmanship ability involved in that at all," said Econ, who helps train snipers at Fort Lewis. "There is a sick, demented, murdering brain that will never be cured."
We don't know nothin' about no sunglasses...
We don't have any sunglasses...
WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' SUNGLASSES!
I qualified on a Navy Range north of the NCBC in Gulfport with the M-16 and .45 1911 pistol. I made the expert marksman grade. It was almost too easy. I was accused of being from some other branch of the service other than the USAF.
No problem - I swear by it!
Takes a bit of working with it to get it tuned well. I highly recommend having a gunsmith install it in the forestock.
Once installed be prepared to go through 500+ rounds firing from bench. Use your hunting ammo, not your practice ammo. Different ammo will make a difference. The down side for me is that my hunting ammo is match grade and costs nearly a buck per shot.
After tuning twice I would make the following recommendation. First screw the block in as far as it will travel (don't force) in one direction. Then screw it as far as it will go the other direction, counting the number of turns. Start a chart with the left hand side recording the block position by turn(s) and the right hand side recording the MOA (a good caliper helps). Each chart entry should be measured in whole turns.
Once you have the lowest MOA per whole turn, then try adjusting by 1/4 turns off from the full turn using another chart. This will help find the sweet spot as rapidly as possible - especial the second time you go to do this. This is something I did not do and wish I had.
If you hand load, get a consistant load worked up, work with it till you get the smallest group possible, and then make MINOR adjustments in your loads. You might even be able to get that .08 MOA.
Shoot, 20 years ago we had electronic pop-ups at 25,50,100, 200, and 400 mtrs. you had to get 36 out of 40 to score expert. The Drill Sgts. would tell you to fire
in front of the target to kick sand on the target to score
because they were so holey that even if you hit it, the
blasted thing wasn't likely to score a hit. Took his advice and scored 38 out of 40.
You are so correct.. When I did night fire in basic with tracers, the rounds spiraled out of my rifle.. It was about 4 inch diameter. I think that barrel was pretty much worn out. It wasn't until I got to my unit that I received a new weapon.. Still not MOA, but no spirals..
Wow! You've responded to a 3 year old post. Anyhow, it's good to meet you.
jeez, that was a little after 8 in the morning.. I'm sure I hadn't reached my recommended daily allowance of coffee...
anyway, nice to meet you too...