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Secret Russian gas identified
The Washington Times ^ | October 29, 2002 | Jack Wheeler

Posted on 10/29/2002 6:44:27 AM PST by Quilla

Edited on 07/12/2004 3:58:24 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Across the world, yesterday's newspapers carried front-page headlines similar to that of The Washington Times: "Russia Remains Silent on Deadly Knockout Gas." The mystery of the knockout gas's identity has been solved.

Last Wednesday, some 50 Muslim terrorists from the Russian province of Chechnya stormed a theater in Moscow and took as hostages about 800 people (mostly Russians) who were watching a play. The terrorists demanded that Russian troops depart Chechnya, or else they would murder the hostages in cold blood. His patience running out and afraid the terrorists would carry out their threat, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered a commando assault on the theater, led by crack Speznaz special operations teams.


(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: gas; russian; standoff; terrorist
Great footnote!
1 posted on 10/29/2002 6:44:27 AM PST by Quilla
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To: Quilla
Whatever the therapeutic ratio was, the exhausted hostages would have had a lower one.
That said, the Russian did very well in the Free World's first counterattack of this type.
The Islamic/Chechen/al Qaeda terrorists would have left ZERO alive. ZERO.


2 posted on 10/29/2002 6:53:02 AM PST by Diogenesis
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To: Quilla
You gotta love the good ole American chemical industry. This is the kind of stuff I WANT them to spend my tax dollars on.

Note, don't be so certain of the agent. Sufentanyl is also an extremely potent synthetic opiate. Used to be used in the OR, but was just to unforgiving in some situations. All the statements about reversing agents are on the money. This was a one shot deal for the Russkies. The next batch of terrorists will be forwarned. Actually, if one recruited hard core heroine addicts or slowly aclimated your terror cell to the effects of opiates; you could build an tolerance high enough to mute the effects and have plenty of time to react. Poor man's solution.
3 posted on 10/29/2002 6:56:55 AM PST by WilliamWallace1999
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To: Diogenesis
That said, the Russian did very well in the Free World's first counterattack of this type.

I agree. Yet the arguement that the antidote shouldn't be made public (to save lives in this case) so as to prevent future terrorists from carrying same, is lame.

4 posted on 10/29/2002 6:58:40 AM PST by Quilla
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To: Quilla
I would think that the Russians didn't want these terrorists to forget who they were and to start taking off their clothes - when they were rigged with explosives. Wouldn't it be likely that they would accidentally detonate themselves and blow everyone else up as well?
5 posted on 10/29/2002 6:59:13 AM PST by Guna
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To: Quilla
One wonders if there were 700 doses of Narcan in the whole country.
6 posted on 10/29/2002 7:00:29 AM PST by DainBramage
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To: Guna
Exactly my thoughts when I read that part of the article.
7 posted on 10/29/2002 7:01:18 AM PST by Quilla
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To: Quilla
Too much M99 causes respiratory paralysis. The muscles of your lungs and diaphragm can't move. Death from hypoxia — no air, no oxygen — comes quickly. And that's what happened to the hostages: They stopped breathing.

That hostages died is a tragedy, but at teh very least it was with far less pain than say getting BLOWN up by a stinking terrorist.

8 posted on 10/29/2002 7:01:32 AM PST by Centurion2000
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To: Guna
bttt
9 posted on 10/29/2002 7:09:04 AM PST by antidisestablishment
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To: Quilla
THIS one?
10 posted on 10/29/2002 7:10:28 AM PST by EggsAckley
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To: Quilla
Once this is disclosed, the anger of Russian doctors may explode — because the antidote for M99 overdose is well known and available. It is a drug called naloxone, which, when injected into the blood stream, immediately blocks the opiate receptors and thus M99's effects.

According to reports I read immediately after the raid, the military DID tell them to use naloxone, even if they kept secret about the specific opiate. Problem is that there wasn't enough to go around, and the victims got it too late.

11 posted on 10/29/2002 7:12:42 AM PST by Paradox
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To: Quilla
All these monday morning quarterback journalists have such easy lives, all they have to do is question decisions from the safety of their laptops. What would they have done in Putin's shoes, huh? Putin did the right thing, and he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize way more than Jimmy "the appeaser" Carter.
12 posted on 10/29/2002 7:13:18 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: WilliamWallace1999
Note, don't be so certain of the agent. Sufentanyl is also an extremely potent synthetic opiate. Used to be used in the OR, but was just to unforgiving in some situations. All the statements about reversing agents are on the money. This was a one shot deal for the Russkies. The next batch of terrorists will be forwarned. Actually, if one recruited hard core heroine addicts or slowly aclimated your terror cell to the effects of opiates; you could build an tolerance high enough to mute the effects and have plenty of time to react. Poor man's solution.

Even knowing that it was a gas will ensure that future terrorists will always have a few members with masks on all the time ready to set off explosives if the rest of the crowd starts dropping.

13 posted on 10/29/2002 7:14:43 AM PST by KarlInOhio
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To: Quilla
I almost think this is misinfo. Can etorphine be inhaled? Every ER doc in this country would automatically give a shot of narcan to any patient in coma especially if he didn't know why. The default isn't to stand around with your thumb up your tailpipe. 1 amp D50, 1 amp or two of Narcan. I would bet they DID try narcan, it would be the first thing an ER doc here would do. I still go with my guess yesterday, extremely nonpersistent nerve agent. The Ruskies are smart enuff to realize the loopy lefties in the West would have a stroke if the heard "nerve gas".
14 posted on 10/29/2002 7:14:45 AM PST by wastoute
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To: Quilla
Once this is disclosed, the anger of Russian doctors may explode — because the antidote for M99 overdose is well known and available. It is a drug called naloxone, which, when injected into the blood stream, immediately blocks the opiate receptors and thus M99's effects.

I wondered all along why they didn't use this. Even if they don't know what gas it was, naloxone would do very little harm.

15 posted on 10/29/2002 7:14:47 AM PST by muggs
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To: Quilla
I thought maybe this was something to do with Ted Kennedy and his dinner of Chili, baked beans and beer.
16 posted on 10/29/2002 7:40:17 AM PST by Johnny Gage
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To: Quilla
I asked myself when I saw the pictures, where are the EMTS?
If they had been on scene to inject the hostages the death count would have been much lower and there would be no need to broadcast the drug used. Planning is everything in these situations.

Just ask Janet Reno who will go down in history as having made the term Justice Department an oxymoron.
17 posted on 10/29/2002 7:41:39 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: dfwgator
You won't get any arguement out of me about Putin doing the right thing in this situation. His incredible stance on terror is even more enhanced by the order to shoot the incapacitated terrorists before they came to. That took guts.
18 posted on 10/29/2002 7:46:18 AM PST by Quilla
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To: Quilla; Thinkin' Gal
>Too much M99 causes respiratory paralysis.

Too little M99 and the Chechans blow up the theatre.  It seems the Russians are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

19 posted on 10/29/2002 7:50:39 AM PST by 2sheep
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To: 2sheep
I think the reason the Russians used an opiate derivitive is the speed of action. (They have the other stuff too).

If they had of used an agent that is slower the terrorists
would have realized what was happening and set off the charges, killing everyone.This was probably the only agent that would knock them out instantly and give the hostages a chance at survival as opposed to certain death.
20 posted on 10/29/2002 9:25:25 AM PST by cpdiii
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To: Quilla
so you think that the antidote should be made public so that the terrorists could arm carry it with them in the event that such a weapon is used against them again in the future? Why dont we just give all our enemies the antidotes to the chem. weps we have while were at it.
21 posted on 10/29/2002 10:08:04 AM PST by Enemy Of The State
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To: Diogenesis
The Islamic/Chechen/al Qaeda terrorists would have left ZERO alive. ZERO.

Agreed; the deaths which occurred are terribly sad and unfortunate, but those deaths were all due to the works of the TERRORISTS.

22 posted on 10/29/2002 10:16:37 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: 2sheep
The Chechen Terrorists have a hsitory of slaughtering all they can. What the Russian/Putin decision did do is SAVE THE BIGGER MAJORITY OF HOSTAGES THAT THE TERRORISTS INTENDED TO SLAUGHTER.
23 posted on 10/29/2002 10:23:46 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: Quilla
Something I haven't read anywhere... did any of the terrorists die from the gas? I read about the hostages. Could there have been any identity issues?

And the article goes far enough to report that the terrorists might circumvent such a countermeasure by taking xxx as an antidote. Have to wonder who's side they are on really.

24 posted on 10/29/2002 10:46:59 AM PST by weegee
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To: Enemy Of The State
No, the antidote should not be given to the general public. I may have misstated. I do believe though, that the antidote should have been 'made public' to the medical professionals who treated the hostages. It may have leaked out, who knows. But that's a moot point once the media gets a hold of the information.
25 posted on 10/29/2002 11:20:10 AM PST by Quilla
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To: weegee
weegee, it's my understanding that Russian forces stormed the theater and killed all but one of the terrorists. If they had better 'rations' during the ordeal and were consequently in better health, they may have been less affected by the gas. But, by killing them before they were able to come around and set off the explosives attached to their bodies, I suspect it would be difficult to determine if their gas exposure was lethal.
26 posted on 10/29/2002 11:29:26 AM PST by Quilla
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To: Quilla
The identity of the deadly mystery knockout gas is clear, however. It is a synthetic opiate called etorphine.

M99.

Doesn't this fall under the category of "loose lips sink ships"? (For Jack Wheeler, that is.) If M99 is indeed the substance, the reason the Russian government doesn't want anyone to know is so that the terrorists can't prepare for any future M99 gassings (antidotes, treatments, etc).

27 posted on 10/29/2002 12:38:41 PM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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