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Psychic Made Stunning Sniper Predictions
NewsMax.com ^ | 10/29/02 | Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff

Posted on 10/30/2002 2:19:55 AM PST by kattracks

NewsMax rarely discusses paranormal things, and we give short shrift to such out-of-this-world wisdom -- even if CNN’s Larry King has mainstreamed psychics.

True, most psychics are quacks or frauds who like to make big after-the-fact claims and cash in on their fame.

But one apparently isn’t.

Her name is Elizabeth Baron.

A self-described "spiritualist" from Charleston, S.C., Baron offered a series of stunning insights into the recent sniper attacks around Washington.

Some of them were recorded on radio before the snipers were captured, making her claims more than credible.

Soon after the spree killings began on Oct. 2, Baron claimed that there was indeed an Islamic connection to the killings.

She also said – contrary to the many "profilers" spouting off – that the killings were being conducted by more than one individual.

She stated that a group of as many as five individuals were involved, although all did not do the killings themselves.

Baron also insists that an unidentified woman is involved.

Interestingly, Baron may have had a premonition of the attacks in April of this year. At that time she faxed a letter to a friend close to the FBI, indicating that Maryland was in danger and needed to be protected.

Days before the shooting of the man at the Ponderosa steak house in Ashland, Va., Baron said she had received the message "They will surrender in Richmond."

Ashland is a suburb of Richmond. According to press reports police have said that they almost captured Muhammad and Malvo at a pay phone in Richmond soon after the Ashland shooting.

Baron believes that the shooting in the Richmond area gave the police the evidence and clues they needed to help solve the case.

On Oct. 21, Baron said she began intense prayer to help her define the killer. She penciled a sketch of a very young man she believed was black or Hispanic.

She received another message: The man is with another man and they are driving a blue car.

All of that sounds rather fantastic and fabricated.

It might have been dismissed as such had it not been recorded for posterity on a national radio program.

On Tuesday, Oct. 22, Baron was an early morning guest on Phil Paleologos’ morning talk radio show "American Breakfast," broadcast on Cable Radio Network.

Paleologos told NewsMax he remains in awe of Baron’s prediction and revelations two days before the arrest of Muhammad and Malvo, before anyone even knew who was doing these killings.

"She came on my show and said, 'The Feds are on a wild goose chase; there is no white van involved, there is a blue car,'" Paleologos recalled, adding that Baron also made clear the killings involved a group and not one person.

"But she was really emphatic about this blue vehicle," Paleologos said, who noted that the only talk at the time had been of a white van.

When news broke late Wednesday night into Thursday morning that Muhammad and Malvo were suspects and may be driving a blue Caprice -- one they were later captured in – Paleologos was stunned.

The next day, he called Baron and played her on-air interview from days before, and congratulated her.

Paleologos says in all of his years on radio, Baron is the only person he has interviewed who he believes has true spiritual, psychic abilities.

"She has a gift. It's a blessing to have this, to help solve these cases and right wrongs," Paleologos told NewsMax. He said she is different in many ways from other psychics, and that she is not motivated by fame or fortune.

Baron, the mother of seven children, is the widow of a former Chicago-area police chief.

Baron has been issuing warnings about Islamic terrorism for several years. Since 1996, she has been saying that several nations, including Iraq and Iran, were helping to plan a major terrorist attack in lower Manhattan, specifically noting the New York Stock Exchange and the World Trade Center as targets.

In recent months, Baron says she has received some warnings about President Bush and Vice President Cheney, which she has passed on to federal authorities. She wouldn’t disclose the full details of these revelations publicly.

On another matter, asked if Steve Hatfill had anything to do with the anthrax attacks, she said, "It’s an absolute lie." Still, she added, the FBI is trying to find something on him to justify its investigation and actions against him.


Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics:
Sniper Shootings



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Maybe the profilers should have consulted with Elizabeth Baron.
1 posted on 10/30/2002 2:19:55 AM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks
"In recent months, Baron says she has received some warnings about President Bush and Vice President Cheney."

They're going to try hard. I can only pray they fail.
2 posted on 10/30/2002 2:33:08 AM PST by DB
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To: kattracks
The last part gave me a jolt. For the last week I have been feeling that the NYSE is the next big target, a simultaneous bomb and cyber attack perhaps, and my husband thinks this will be coordinated with suicide bombers or snipers in shopping malls, perhaps The Mall of America.

I would pass this off if it weren't for the fact that we discussed in 1992 our belief that terrorists would attack New York and D.C. within the next decade. And my husband pinpointed The World Trade Center as the site they would want to bomb first.

3 posted on 10/30/2002 2:37:14 AM PST by patriciaruth
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To: kattracks
Psychic/smychic!
4 posted on 10/30/2002 2:51:57 AM PST by Lurking2Long
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To: kattracks
I don't find this hard to believe. This women is in league with and works for the same boss (Satan) as the snipers. So, of course she can get "inside" information.
5 posted on 10/30/2002 3:15:59 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: kattracks
IT'S 6 DAYS 'TIL THE ELECTION

GOOD INTENTIONS DON'T WIN ELECTIONS.

YOU CAN HELP, TODAY. GO TO:

TakeBackCongress.org

A resource for conservatives who want a Republican majority in the Senate

6 posted on 10/30/2002 3:16:12 AM PST by ffrancone
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To: Lurking2Long

7 posted on 10/30/2002 3:24:22 AM PST by Jaxter
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To: kattracks
"Psychic" quacks rely on all sorts of tricks. I see signs of several possibilities in this article:

1. People remember your "hits" and overlook your "misses". Note that the article admits several things this woman "predicted" which simply have not panned out (e.g. "five people" involved).

2. People who "want to believe" will give them the benefit of the doubt on things which fail to match, and/or "stretch to fit" ("aha, there *might* be five people involved, we just didn't catch them all!")

3. With dozens of "psychics" making "predictions" on any big public story, one or two are bound to have a few unusually lucky guesses. We never hear about the "psychics" which predicted yellow cars, red cars, orange cars... But the one that spun a tale about a "blue" car gets to make all the papers, and use it as "proof" that she's the real McCoy...

4. The really slick "psychics" will do a hell of a lot of research, so that their "predictions" will be better than wild guesses. They'll have spent years developing far-flung sources they can turn to for "inside" information. (One famous example hired private detectives to investigate her wealthy clients, so that she could "know" things about them that she "couldn't possibly have known unless she were truly psychic"). In this case, note that the blue car "prediction" was publicly announced TWO DAYS short of the snipers' capture. Rather than being "evidence" of her amazing abilities, it's more likely evidence that she had found an inside source in the investigation and pumped them for information -- the police had known about the involvement of Muhammad's blue Caprice for at least a week before the capture. Then the "psychic" arranges a big radio interview where she can "reveal" her "psychic insight" so that she can reap loads of free publicity when her "prediction" turns out to be "uncannily accurate". One more "miracle" for the ol' resume...

A good "psychic" knows every trick in the book to rope in new suckers.

8 posted on 10/30/2002 3:33:39 AM PST by Dan Day
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To: kattracks
It was suggested here on Oct 17. Read some of the responses.
9 posted on 10/30/2002 3:39:07 AM PST by Consort
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To: DB
I predict daylight will begin to fade on the entire East Coast in about 10 hours. The good news: it's only going to last for about 12 hours.
10 posted on 10/30/2002 3:50:47 AM PST by A Vast RightWing Conspirator
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To: kattracks
Always remember that the Bible warns us of psychics. Even if they are right on, it's not a wise use of one's resources monetarily or spiritually.
11 posted on 10/30/2002 4:01:30 AM PST by WellsFargo94
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To: AmericaUnited
Why do you believe that? She stated that she intensly prayed to receive information. How is this any different then saints and prophets. Perhaps she is another living saint. The bible is replete with holy people who see visions of the future.
12 posted on 10/30/2002 4:09:14 AM PST by StolarStorm
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To: kattracks
No offense, but several Freepers (including me) made similar on-target predictions about the sniper.
13 posted on 10/30/2002 4:19:15 AM PST by HitmanLV
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To: WellsFargo94
I concur with StolarStorm. Our prophets received the word of God, and many psychics today are devout christians that praise God for their gifts. I keep an open mind about things like this. Almost everyoned has seen or experience something strange or unexplainable. Don't confuse what I'm talking about with the $3.99 per minute phone wackos.

One of my favorite "psychics" to listen to is Sylvia Browne. She's a delightful woman who has many interesting things to say. Edgar Cayce (The Sleeping Prophet) was a devout Catholic I believe. He healed over 90% of the people who wrote him asking for help. The healings were usually in the form of a medical treatment that he would detail during trance that would be mailed back to the requestor. Better than 90% success rate and it's documented in detail.

I don't think it would be wise for us to question what gifts God may decide to bestow upon us.

14 posted on 10/30/2002 4:22:39 AM PST by jrhepfer
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To: kattracks
So many pundits so many speculations, someone had to get it close just on guesswork.
15 posted on 10/30/2002 4:42:37 AM PST by alisasny
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To: StolarStorm
She stated that she intensly prayed to receive information. How is this any different then saints and prophets. Perhaps she is another living saint. The bible is replete with holy people who see visions of the future.

Yes, the Bible also is replete with those who pray to demons. The Bible is replete with warnings to have NOTHING to do with sourcery and witchcraft. This women is a witch. Check out her web site. Astral travel??!! Trances??!! PURE, 100%, UNADULTERATED WITCHCRAFT@!

http://www.elizabethbaron.com/

16 posted on 10/30/2002 4:44:48 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: jrhepfer
Please, this is almost laughable. Genuine prophets of the Most High God do not sell "readings", trance services, books on atral travel, etc. THIS IS PURE WITHCRAFT!
17 posted on 10/30/2002 4:46:47 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: AmericaUnited
m
18 posted on 10/30/2002 4:48:52 AM PST by Nick Thimmesch
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To: kattracks; MadIvan
I had a psychic come into the advertising department of my newspaper one day when I was there.
She was looking for the small ads girl, to put in an advertisement about her clinics.

But the girl she was looking for was out of the office at the time.
I said: 'Hey, if you are such a good psychic, how come you didn't know she wasn't here before you came in?''

She didn't take an ad! *L*
19 posted on 10/30/2002 4:50:28 AM PST by Happygal
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To: kattracks
"Soon after the spree killings began on Oct. 2, Baron claimed that there was indeed an Islamic connection to the killings."

Big whoop! I was saying the same thing. Does that make me psychic? This fall under the category of educated guess.

20 posted on 10/30/2002 4:51:29 AM PST by Destructor
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To: AmericaUnited
This women is in league with and works for the same boss (Satan) as the snipers.

That's a pretty sick remark. If this woman HAD been in league with the devil, she would have tried to HELP the snipers and wouldn't have tried to warn us about them. I find that those who are quick to pass judgement on other people should think twice about throwing stones from glass houses..

21 posted on 10/30/2002 4:58:57 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
the Devil? No.

P.T. Barnum? Yes.

22 posted on 10/30/2002 5:02:06 AM PST by Wormwood
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To: Dan Day
A good "psychic" knows every trick in the book to rope in new suckers.

Although there ARE a multitude of frauds who claim to have psychic abilities, there ARE some who DO actually have that gift. There is much more to this Universe that we don't fully understand, and to dismiss that which we don't fully understand as impossible is counter productive to discovery.

23 posted on 10/30/2002 5:05:06 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: AmericaUnited
Yes, the Bible also is replete with those who pray to demons.

Cite me a verse if you can. BTW, do you think the Book of Revelations was written by someone who prayed to demons?

24 posted on 10/30/2002 5:07:05 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
There is much more to this Universe that we don't fully understand, and to dismiss that which we don't fully understand as impossible is counter productive to discovery.

I'm open to new ideas and discoveries. But how long should we wait for independently verifiable proof of psychic powers? Ten more years? A hundred?

25 posted on 10/30/2002 5:10:08 AM PST by Wormwood
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To: Lurking2Long
"Psychic/smychic!"

. . .sorry, if the 'facts fit'. . .they can speak for themselves.

. . .and we should at the least, give pause and consideration.

26 posted on 10/30/2002 5:18:07 AM PST by cricket
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To: kattracks
What the heck! Yesterday at 9:30 AM I predicted on FR that last night's memorial service for Wellstone would be either a Hollywood production or a recipe for disaster. The only thing I was wrong about was that it was both!

Reading my morning coffee grounds now, and I'll let you know later if Coleman will win.

Leni

27 posted on 10/30/2002 5:20:33 AM PST by MinuteGal
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To: Wormwood
But how long should we wait for independently verifiable proof of psychic powers? Ten more years? A hundred?

Perhaps there already is proof that we are simply not aware of. I can't answer the question as to when we'll all know for sure though. Only a true psychic could answer THAT.. :)

28 posted on 10/30/2002 5:27:29 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: Dan Day
"e.g. "five people" involved). "

We know Muhammed had a girl friend; the boy a Mother who has been newsworthy; and there was Malvo. . .and the five could just be; people in and out of 'this scene' without being directly involved in the murders per se.

You can go to great lengths to deny psychic abilities - mental gymnastics such as the 'Amazing Randy' performs; but it does not change the 'fact' that our senses define our reality; and some people have sharper senses than others.

. . .sort of like trying to read a message written in the sand; or even asking someone with glasses to help. . .

. . .and like the message in 'sand writing', the truth of the matter and it's possibilities, are constantly shifting and changing; being altered by winds of time. . .

. . .and some people never walk on the beach; and just won't go there. . .

29 posted on 10/30/2002 5:30:38 AM PST by cricket
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To: AmericaUnited
In league with Satan ??????????????

30 posted on 10/30/2002 5:46:16 AM PST by genefromjersey
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To: A Vast RightWing Conspirator
Hey, I'm just worried about Bush period. Terrorist worldwide dream of taking him out. Many are encouraging them on daily. After all he's the biggest threat to world peace they all say…
31 posted on 10/30/2002 5:57:12 AM PST by DB
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To: jrhepfer
On her website she sells a tape described as:

Karma and Reincarnation : With this tape you have the opportunity to benefit from the principles taught in the East. This insightful information will explain how future events have already been shaped by your past.

This stuff wasn't in my King James Version. She doesn't seem to adhere to Christian belief systems.
32 posted on 10/30/2002 6:07:11 AM PST by Untouchable
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To: FormerLurker
These are parlor tricks; this does not do much for the credibility of NewsMax...
33 posted on 10/30/2002 6:11:18 AM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Dan Day
have not panned out (e.g. "five people" involved

We don't know that yet.

34 posted on 10/30/2002 6:26:52 AM PST by arthurus
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To: arthurus
OK , Prove it

I want the numbers for next weeks SC Lottery

Freepmail me though, I'll be just between her 'n me, I'll check with ya'll later

35 posted on 10/30/2002 6:45:33 AM PST by Robe
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To: All
If anyone read the daily sniper threads on FR for the 2-3 weeks that they were here saw a lot of Freepers make better and more accurate predictions than this quack. Comeon, what did she get right, lets look

1. She said there was an Islamic connection.... and so did about 500 freepers on this site, big deal. For pete's sake, anytime there is some big violence story, there is a better than 50-50 chance that it is islamic connected.

2. She said that there was more than one conspirator involved, and possibly 5. Wow, only about 1000 people on FR made that same prediction.

3. She predicted that an unidentified woman was involved... Well, that has yet to prove true. No evidence points in that direction. But again, the odds of that are at worst, 50-50. So big deal. We will probably never know.

4. She claimed that they would surrender in Richmond Virigina. Wrong. They didn't surrender. She is trying to bootstrap herself by saying that they police narrowly missed catching them in Richmond at the phone booth fiasco. Well, she was wrong.

5. On October 21, she penciled a sketch of a very young hispanic or black man. Well, which was it.. hispanic or black. Remember, before Oct 21, there were reports that the suspect may be hispanic. In fact, reports were going around that there were two hispanic young men that were suspects. There were BOLOS out for two hispanic men after one of the shootings, before Oct 21. So, what did she get right here. This was no otherworldly message from someone on high. It came from FNC, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, etc. Wow.

6. In April, she predicted that Maryland was in danger and needed protection. Well, crap, everything around DC is in danger, and needs protection. What genius is needed to figure that out.

7. She predicted the suspects were driving a blue car. Well, remember, there was a report early on that a blue car was seen and was being looked for, but it got quickly overshadowed by the white van reports and was ignored completely by most LE and talking heads.

8. She has been issuing warnings about Islamic terrorism since 1996, and has mentioned attacks on lower Manhatten and the Financial District. Again, who with a right mind has not been predicting Islamic terrorism since at least 1996. In fact, many have been warning about and predicting that since at least 1993 after the first WTC attack, and the 1995 OKC bombing. Some even go back to the early to mid '80s. What devine prediction is that. We have heard those types of warnings and predictions for years from many quarters, and even here on FR. Are all those people devinely connected also.

9. She has predicted that President Bush and VP Cheney are in danger and may be targets... duhhhhhhhhhhh. Man, what insight she has. Wow. I would have never thought that our enemies would want to target our president and VP. That's insane to believe isn't it?

She did nothing more than what a lot of people here on FR did in the weeks of the sniper tragedy. She made guesses and predictions based on the information that was at hand and made educated guesses. Now, if she had given us the times and locations of the shootings before they occurred, and had given us the names of the suspects before the shootings, and had given us the car description and tag number before the shootings, or if she had given all that information before the shootings ever began so that the police could have arrested the suspects for other crimes that they had committed before the shootings began, or if she had given us the names of the victims so we could have told them to stay home....well then, I would be impressed. As it is, she is/was no more than any of us. She had an opinion based of facts known at the time, and based on educated guesses and experience. Big deal.

36 posted on 10/30/2002 7:44:04 AM PST by yukong
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To: kattracks
When she prays, which way does she face, heaven or hell?
37 posted on 10/30/2002 8:08:13 AM PST by A CA Guy
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To: genefromjersey
Very well could be!
38 posted on 10/30/2002 8:08:34 AM PST by A CA Guy
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To: A CA Guy
When she prays, which way does she face, heaven or hell?

In your opinion, which way IS Heaven and which way IS hell?

39 posted on 10/30/2002 9:10:02 AM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
Heaven is up. Hell would be down towards the firey core of the earth for this threads purposes.
People get their visions from Satan or God.

Which does this person serve?
If she did not praise God, she serves the other. IMO
40 posted on 10/30/2002 12:29:23 PM PST by A CA Guy
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To: FormerLurker
King Saul consulted a psychic. God removed His Spirit from him.
41 posted on 10/30/2002 1:38:47 PM PST by The Grim Freeper
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To: kattracks
And this my FRiends is wy Dante gave "psychics" special attention in hell. Observe:

Days before the shooting of the man at the Ponderosa steak house in Ashland, Va., Baron said she had received the message "They will surrender in Richmond."

This is the actual prediction. Notice the verb and the location. "Surrender", not "shoot someone", not "screw up", not "leave the important final clues"; "surrender". And "in Richmond", not "near Richmond", not "in a suburb of Richmond"; "in Richmond".

Ashland is a suburb of Richmond. According to press reports police have said that they almost captured Muhammad and Malvo at a pay phone in Richmond soon after the Ashland shooting.

Now here comes the fudge (wasn't that a sketch on Laugh-In?). The true believers are turning a direct and clearly constructed statement into vagueries right before your very eyes. "Surrender" has become "shoot somebody and almost get caught" and "in Richmond" has become "in and around Richmond including but not limited to the suburb of Ashland" (wonder if the citizens of Ashland consider themselves a suburb?).

Baron believes that the shooting in the Richmond area gave the police the evidence and clues they needed to help solve the case.

And the coupe de grace as the "predictor" finishes the fudge and explains why this unmistakable "miss" (as they say in the parlance) is actually a "hit"... if only you're willing to believe.

The article is filled with this dreck, vaguaries that could maybe sort of describe the situation if you're feeling generous being touted as brilliantly accurate predictions. Hooey. that's called playing the odds. I'm willing to give her credit for going the terrorist angle when most of the experts (including this layman) were still thinking normal serial killer. But there were plenty of people on FR going the same route, and they're not psychics (heck some of the people on that list think every stinky fart is a terrorist plot, good thing they don't hang out with me).

Remember kids, if they were a real psychic they wouldn't need your money, they'd make their living at the nearest Indian casino or OTB parlor. Heck, do you have any idea what a $2 bet in Vegas in March that the Angels would win the Series would have paid off? That's predicting the future.

42 posted on 10/30/2002 2:06:44 PM PST by discostu
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To: FormerLurker
Although there ARE a multitude of frauds who claim to have psychic abilities, there ARE some who DO actually have that gift.

Uh huh. Sure there are. Whatever you say.

Hey, wanna buy this neat bridge?

There is much more to this Universe that we don't fully understand, and to dismiss that which we don't fully understand as impossible is counter productive to discovery.

I don't "dismiss that which we don't fully understand". What I do dismiss are starry-eyed claims which have been proven, time and time and time again, to be the work of frauds or nutcases.

Not a single "psychic" has ever demonstrated any actual abilities under proper testing (where "proper" is defined as testing done carefully enough to exclude the possibility of fraud or wishful thinking on the part of the testers). Period.

43 posted on 10/30/2002 2:35:00 PM PST by Dan Day
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To: arthurus
"have not panned out (e.g. "five people" involved"

We don't know that yet.

Did you miss the significance of my very next point?

2. People who "want to believe" will give them the benefit of the doubt on things which fail to match, and/or "stretch to fit" ("aha, there *might* be five people involved, we just didn't catch them all!")

44 posted on 10/30/2002 2:41:40 PM PST by Dan Day
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To: kattracks
The only thing funnier on this thread than people believing she's a real psychic is people believing she's a witch.
45 posted on 10/30/2002 2:45:25 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: kattracks
If Nesmax is implying that everyone but Mrs Baron was saying it was a lone gunman, they're wrong. I heard many profilers ane other LE officials say that they couldn't rule out multiple shooters.

Maybe there's something to this, maybe not, but it looks like Newsmax is injecting a whole lot of hype into the story.
46 posted on 10/30/2002 2:54:03 PM PST by kms61
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To: kattracks
If Newsmax is implying that everyone but Mrs Baron was saying it was a lone gunman, they're wrong. I heard many profilers ane other LE officials say that they couldn't rule out multiple shooters.

Maybe there's something to this, maybe not, but it looks like Newsmax is injecting a whole lot of hype into the story.
47 posted on 10/30/2002 2:54:07 PM PST by kms61
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To: kattracks
If Newsmax is implying that everyone but Mrs Baron was saying it was a lone gunman, they're wrong. I heard many profilers ane other LE officials say that they couldn't rule out multiple shooters.

Maybe there's something to this, maybe not, but it looks like Newsmax is injecting a whole lot of hype into the story.
48 posted on 10/30/2002 2:54:21 PM PST by kms61
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To: FormerLurker
Yes, the Bible also is replete with those who pray to demons.

Cite me a verse if you can.

I can list hundreds of verses. It's clear you know little about this subject. All of those who pray to pagan gods are praying to "demonic" entities.

BTW, do you think the Book of Revelations was written by someone who prayed to demons?

No, but once again this question shows your basic confusion on these topic.

49 posted on 10/30/2002 2:54:54 PM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: kms61
Sorry for the inadvertent multiple posts
50 posted on 10/30/2002 2:56:39 PM PST by kms61
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