Skip to comments.HAITIANS AND THE FREE STATE PROJECT
Posted on 11/02/2002 9:11:20 AM PST by madfly
Let me explain. Before this comes back at me for some reason, I'd better first state that I do not speak for the Free State Project, I am giving my own opinion of the matter - and this whole mess. You'll see why I said that as you read this. Back to the Boat People. Last time I checked, we were at war. Part of that war means protection of our borders, among the most glaring issues this political season that few, if any, politicians on either side want to touch. For a review: People cross the border as if this nation doesn't really have one. Among them were a few Jihad freaks, they take a few flying lessons, steal a few planes, and conduct what historians may call one of the most successful military strikes in world history. Hence, on Sept. 12, 2001, issues such as immigration and border security became important, nonpartisan (priority) issues. Pretty good reason to rally around the ol' flag, huh? Then I remembered Florida - from hanging chads to a paramilitary siege of Miami for one poor kid whose mother died just to get him away from Cuba. One would assume that while one man is working to protect the nation's borders, his brother would follow his lead, or at least remind him over dinner, "hey, we gotta lot of border to protect here, too". And no, I'm not picking on the Bush family. And so, with all things these days being part of the "new normal" I, the common schlep, would assume 220 folks would not be able to simply dock their boat right off Hwy. 1 on Hobie Beach, then storm said beach asking for a ride to - who knows - the voter registration office? The images are still vivid in my mind. 220 ILLEGAL TRESPASSERS (not 'migrants', not 'immigrants') jumping out of a stuffed boat, swimming to shore, and STOPPING traffic on a major artery in Southern Florida. If this alone doesn't bother you, imagine these 220 folks having AK-47's shooting on their way in. The way our wonderful new attitude toward 'homeland security' is down there, we could safely assume they'd have taken Ft. Lauderdale by now. But here's what's worse: I decided to check to see if anyone just might be a little outraged about what happened. And yes, they were: About 200 protesters, most of them Haitian Americans, gathered outside the Liberty City Learning Center where Jeb Bush had a previously scheduled campaign appearance on Wednesday. The group, divided into partisan camps, clashed over what should be done with the new refugees (read: illegal trespassers). U.S. Rep Carrie Meek, D-Miami, called on the governor (Jeb) to lobby his brother (W) to issue an executive order to allow the new Haitians, as well as other migrants (read: illegal trespassers) who have been held at Krome for many months, to be released. On the other side: Bush partisans among the protesters blamed Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide and the island's political and economic turmoil for driving more than 200 Haitians to take an 8-day voyage aboard a rickety boat. Meanwhile, a Haitian government official blamed an aid freeze by foreign donor countries (read: U.S. welfare payments) for causing the poverty in his country that led more than 200 migrants to travel in an overcrowded freighter to the United States. Miami Herald - 10.30.02 Okay, call me crazy, but the last time I checked, we had troops in Haiti to deal with whatever the problem is there, including installing our own little 'puppet' (Aristide) to run this place. Here's a few more recent ILLEGAL ENCROACHMENTS: . In May 1998, about 150 Haitians hidden aboard a wooden freighter jumped ship at a Miami River pier in broad daylight, diving into the water, hopping into waiting cars or taking off on foot. About 75 Haitians, including women and children, were detained. . On New Year's Day 2000, a wooden boat treacherously overloaded with 406 Haitian, Dominican and Chinese trespassers were intercepted about eight miles off Key Biscayne. . On Dec. 3, 2001, in a rare move, the U.S. Coast Guard brought to shore 185 Haitian trespassers, including 14 children. They were found just south of Elliott Key in a dangerously overcrowded 31-foot sailboat that also was in danger of capsizing. Lovely. But of course, this is our fault that these folks are coming here, right? Answer: Correct - it is our fault, and here's why: (Just my humble opinion) When a county KNOWS people meaning to do harm are attempting to cross a sovereign border illegally, the correct approach to take is: 1. Have the Coast Guard notify the captain of the boat that they are approaching sovereign waters, and they must halt to be 2. If the vessel continues to approach, have one missile (fired by either ship or air) detonate about 50 yards in front of said vessel 3. If vessel persists, aim for the midsection of said vessel with similar missile, document results. 4. Send copies of documented results to local media and shipping docks in country where vessel is registered. Sound harsh? Illegal attempts to dock on U.S. soil would stop in short order. But alas, none of this happened - for a nation at war. So I woke up Wednesday morning, expecting to see the President announcing which Coast Guard officials were FIRED for allowing a boat to dock that close to a major metropolitan area. But no, let's hold them, feed them, protest about them, then interview them to see if they're being politically persecuted (in a country that we run), to see if they are worthy of staying - and maybe get flying lessons (after all, this is Florida) - or maybe just vanishing... Stupid Question: If they ARE subject to political persecution in a country that we run, would it not be safe to assume that they just 'may' be upset with US? Let me get to the point. We don't HAVE any homeland security, and our national security as a whole - sucks. While every other country seeks to protect their history, we seemed to be hell bent on forgetting who we are. We refuse to deal with a clear and present danger in favor of racially profiling white people when looking for a jihad sniper. We willfully send our manufacturing overseas, while doing everything in our power to kill our natural resource industry. We send federal agents into libraries to interrogate librarians about certain books - and the people who read them. We are losing the support and cooperation of more friendly nations each day, and, while those from every third world country try to encroach upon unprotected borders, good people are doing everything they can just to get away from all this madness. And frankly, I'd like to join them. Since a good portion of "we Americans" learned a hard lesson from the attempt to formally leave the union about 137 years ago, the best thing right-minded Americans can hope to do is work to form their own community elsewhere - somewhere. With all the flag waving, too few people see the obvious: This nation is sick, if not dying altogether. And I don't see any amount of patriotism, or voting democrat or republican solving this problem. I wish I could think more positively about it, but I can't. I see the fall of Modern Rome happening faster than the destruction of Social Security - about the only thing politicians seems interested in protecting. This nation - this place - has become a corporation whose only purpose is to keeping the ruling parties in power. Sorry - just calling it as I see it. Honestly, it has become increasing difficult to write about anything going on in this country anymore. What sense is there in talking about what's wrong when it will probably only get worse. Just when it seems things couldn't get worse, they devolve to a new epitome in less than a week. Even saying, "To heck with it, I'm leaving", can't stop the Internal Revenue Service from stealing nearly everything, even if you die. Wonderful. Maybe I'm just depressed. Maybe I'm tired of the complete futility of holding up this broken down system known as the United States of America. I know this: I want to go far away - check that - I want to go HOME. I want to be free. I want to live each day not having to look over my shoulder, wondering what Washington is going to throw at me next. It would be nice - it would be so nice, to have my personal liberty protected by another entity. Perhaps a state; where medical records remain private, where I can keep what I earn, defend myself against a threat - a STATE where I can live FREE. Am I asking for too much? Please do not accuse me of being an America hater, or unpatriotic. There are great things, and great people here. But most of these same great people all know what I know. Watching the media each day is merely more evidence that there we have some screws loose somewhere. And it is beyond time for the Real Americans of this nation to regroup (or in this case - group) ourselves together in a last ditch effort to rebuild a more perfect union.
It began Wednesday morning, when I found myself totally obsessed with the Free State Project. This is the proposal to move a large number of right-thinking people to one state, and influence the politics of an entire state. Sure, I had heard about it before, but it lead to me spending most of the day trying to figure out why my mind had made such a mental shift and focus so suddenly. Then it dawned on me: Haitian Refugees.
boarded or turn their vessel around immediately - outside the boundary (in this case - 12 miles from the coastline)
with the words "last warning" to follow.
Let me explain.
Back to the Boat People.
On the other side:
Miami Herald - 10.30.02
But of course, this is our fault that these folks are coming here, right?
Answer: Correct - it is our fault, and here's why:
3. If vessel persists, aim for the midsection of said vessel with similar missile, document results.
And frankly, I'd like to join them.
Sorry - just calling it as I see it.
Am I asking for too much?
3. If vessel persists, aim for the midsection of said vessel with similar missile, document results.
I mentioned this at work this week when we were discussing the illegal alien Haitians and what we should do to protect our borders. My suggestion didn't involve a missile, though. I suggested that the Coast Guard (or Navy) fire their 3-inch deck gun or deck mounted .50 cal. machine gun across the bow of the vessel. If this does not deter the captain of the vessel from entering our waters, use the deck gun or machine gun to rip a hole in the hull of their ship and sink it. Film the sinking of the ship and televise it and let it serve as a warning to others who may attempt such foolishness that we mean business and we WILL protect our borders. Everyone at the office agreed with me. No one disagreed. I doubt, however, that those in charge have the b@lls to do this. They would be too worried about what the rest of the world thinks. F--k the rest of the world, is what I say. Secure our borders now.
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
What you propose no doubt is harsh. However, we may very well see such a policy put in place. George W. and his advisors have their plate pretty full right now, as you know. However, after this election I believe we'll see the illegal immigration (invasion) issue dealt with.
I predict a bunch of illegals already here will be deported and entry made much tougher. Just my opinion.
Hopefully the way it's dealt with, if it is does not include any form of amnesty. If we keep rewarding these lawbreakers, they're going to keep coming.
I commend you for your optimism (hope you are right) but I doubt this will happen. My take on Bush is that he is FOR illegal immigration and thus will NEVER direct the necessary resources to stop the mass invasion of our southern borders or instruct the INS to enforce our nation's immigration laws.
In fact I predict that Bush will unload the 245(i) Amnesty for Illegal Aliens on America shortly after the election. Everything I've seen and heard out of this administration indicates that this is the likely case. In my opinion, the restoration of America's sovereignty will require another president that puts the interests of the American People and America ahead of foreign interests.
We'll know just where Bush wants to go with this when he names Ziglar's replacement. If it's another beltway "moderate" with no law enforcement experience than it's safe to say Tancredo will be picking up quite a bit more support in the next few years.
Yes, that is the real litmus test and "MOMENT OF TRUTH" that will signal if Bush is finally going to get serious about illegal immigration. And I'm not optimistic that the replacement will be anything but a warmed over version of James "Open Borders" Ziglar.
That's how I envision him dealing with illegal immigration based on what he's done, so far.
You mean a committee that will forever study the problem of illegal immigration, generate tons of position papers and do nothing constructive? I'd put my money on that. It would create the illusion that something is being done while the invasion continues unchecked. Really, I just can't imagine Bush installing a no nonsense experienced law enforcement guy that is committed to making fundamental positive changes in the INS and wants to enforce our immigration laws. Wouldn't be prudent.
Yes, we have to make sure the illegal aliens are properly represented and that they are getting their fair share of taxpayer financed services.
I'm going with the FSP
Who's coming with me?
Terrorism: Looks reasonable
Immigration: An immediate suspension of immigration for a period of thirty years.
Taxes: All taxes will sunset every four years and be re-voted on every four years during the presidential election. Each year as each person pays his/her taxes, they are issued a voting permit. Those without a permit will not be allowed to vote. (Four permits are required to vote in four year elections) Those who do not pay taxes (for what-ever-reason) will not be allowed to vote.
Government Service: Every American at reaching the age of eighteen must begin serving two years (minimum) duty in the military or other appropriate government service. (This two year service will fall under the code of UCMJ)
Well, the AG of the former administration had the b@lls to incinerate American men, women and children and didn't give a damn what anyone thought. Perhaps we should get J. R. to come back and handle the infiltrators.
I've been talking with my family about it. Watching what's happening to my country is becoming unsufferable.
I'll certainly commit when I get enough people on board. The more I think about this idea the more I absolutely love it. I'm going to have kids soon and I want some hope for them not to have to spend their lives in a socialist s***hole.
The Switzerland of the West! Besides, why not go for the good real estate? We've already got Hollywood on the run and San Francisco is geographically small enough we might just be able to tent it! A little methyl bromide and my summer home at Pacific and Divisadero would be fully fumigated!
It's not as hard as one might think to get rid of the freeloaders. Just start a Socialist State Project somewhere else and the bums will run to it like flies to feces! Might I suggest Oregon? They're already nine tenths of the way there and I am sure the voters are willing! It would make a nice contrast.
I can dream, can't I?
I realize it's somewhat hollow to say this; but, nevertheless, here it goes, anyway.
Would you find any consolation in knowing you're not alone in your sentiments?
Because you're certainly not.
"I'll certainly commit when I get enough people on board. The more I think about this idea the more I absolutely love it."
Back when the Berlin Wall came down?
I suggested to my wife that, given the desperate condition those new countries & the people living there were in?
Insofar as while they were desperately trying to be free (ie capitalist free-market economy, elected representatives et al)?
Those people didn't have a clue, did not know how to be free, either.
Suggested we just might find the *kind* of life we were promised & frankly are not getting (here);or, at least find the opportunity to build one & without the incredible bullshit-resistance we seem to be getting from our own countrymen.
She then mentioned the bitter irony of our returning to the eastern european countries our grandfather's origin; after, they risked life & limb to flee & for the exact same reason(s) we're now once again considering leaving.
More than a hundred years later; history repeats.
Needless to say, our's was only a dream; as, we're well aware of the corruption & madness which has overcome those newly created Republics.
Hell's Bells, even what's happening in the european WASP nations is a crying shame as well as a disgusting, pathetic Socialist mess.
As for inhabiting a >>state<< somewhere from among our existing states?
One populated "by" like-minded people of the "conservative" mindset?
On the face it sounds idealic.
Another -- wise -- poster has already mentioned what happened the last time such a thing was attempted.
Because seriously & as sure as God made little green apples?
If such a thing came to pass, penultimately Washington would interfere to the point the place we'd created, would be unbearable, unliveable, not what we'd wanted in any shape or form.
Then, ultimately, they'd send in their goons to destroy each & every individual who dared resist their meddling ways.
IF THIS WERE TO BE REALISTICALLY CARRIED OUT?
It'd have to be done as a mass-migration to a smaller, third-world nation; whereby, by virtue of our numbers & the resources we'd brought with, we'd simply take over.
I had neighbors whose daughter & son-in-law were going to -- of all places -- Belize with the idea of doing exactly what I suggested above.
I have absolutely no idea whatever became of those two, either; as, we've long since moved away from their parents.
...fwiw & fyi; both those people were stalwart Libertarians.
Return All Illegals To Their Country Of Origin !!
Up With The Right !!
Vote For Republicans !!
GWB Is The Man !!
Death To all Muslim Extremist's !!
The RATS Are In Disarray...Eradicate The Rodents !!
Fire Democrats, Hire Republicans !!
Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!
Let's Roll !!
Molon Labe !!
But the time to try it is now, while we still can. The window of opportunity will close soon.
You don't like my idea?
It'll require a governor and legislature willing to stand up to federal blackmail and extortion, and both voter blocs and an armed populace willing to resist attempts to flood the area with illegal voters, probably foreign.
If that's a REQUIREMENT, then it will never happen. Don't underestimate yourself, or the power of an effective bloc. So, isn't one out of three enough? If you want conservatives who can stand up to anything, come to California! We're tough. Just ask Carl Rove and Gray Davis. For every FReeper who moves here there'll be three Slave Party weenies who'll hightail it.
Think of the change in cash flow! :-P
At first I thought this was a pipe dream, but the more I look at it and the further it progresses, the more it seems not only workable, but a good idea.
This is not succession by any means, and they're not looking for separatists or violent types in any way. This is a legal and viable idea.
I'm in !!
Stay Safe !
Nearly everyone I've talked to about it seems interested, including my wife, mom and many others. I won't make a commitment until I'm sure I can do it. The more I think and talk and read about it the more it seems very realistic, workable and desirable.
I'm going to work towards it in a very real way.