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Evolutionary Logic
Design Inference ^ | William A. Dembski

Posted on 11/03/2002 6:20:35 PM PST by Heartlander

Since the neo-Darwinian synthesis of the 1930s, evolutionary biology has become a growth industry. This growth has resulted in the demand for more flexible methods of establishing evolutionary biology's grandiose claims than the laborious, difficult, pedantic, and "rigorous" methods favored throughout the rest of the sciences. This demand has been met by what is now a well-developed branch of evolutionary biology known as evolutionary logic.

I can't here develop the theory of evolutionary logic in detail, but I will introduce some necessary terminology. In ordinary logic, which is used throughout the rest of the sciences, one is justified asserting that a claim is true provided one can formulate a coherent and rigorous argument that supports it. In evolutionary logic we relax both these restrictions: an evolutionary claim is true provided there is an evolutionary argument that supports it. This definition is sufficiently clear as not to require elaboration. Further, we stipulate that any circularity in this definition is virtuous rather than vicious.

The benefits and practical applications of evolutionary logic will be obvious. Professional authors of evolutionary tracts depend on it for their livelihood. Instructors in evolutionary biology find that evolutionary logic enables them to make complex ideas readily accessible to students regardless of their preparation or background (indeed, proficiency in evolutionary logic has been shown to be positively correlated with high self-esteem). Research workers in a hurry to claim priority for a new result or who lack the time and inclination to be pedantic find evolutionary logic useful for expeditiously writing up their results. In this respect evolutionary logic has a further advantage, namely, the results are not required to be true, thus eliminating a tiresome (and now superfluous) restriction on the growth of evolutionary knowledge.

I want next to consider some of the actual techniques for establishing evolutionary claims that evolutionary logic makes available. I will be concerned mainly with ways in which these techniques can be applied in lecture courses -- they require only trivial modification to be used in textbooks, research papers, formal debates, and Internet discussions.

In evolutionary biology, organisms transform by an evolutionary process into other organisms. This means that evolutionary biologists are often called on to establish lineal relationships. There is a whole class of methods that can be applied when an instructor can't quite bridge an evolutionary gap. Suppose an instructor can get from organism A to organism B and from organism C to organism D by an evolutionary process but cannot bridge the gap between B and C. A number of techniques are available to the aggressive instructor in this emergency. The instructor can write down B and then, without any hesitation, put "therefore C." If the class is bored or the organisms in question are not terribly interesting, it is unlikely that anyone will question the "therefore." This is the method of argument by omission and it is remarkably easy to get away with (sorry, "remarkably easy to apply with success").

Alternatively, there is the argument by fiat, where one simply posits an intermediary between B and C -- call it Z -- that shares characteristics of both. The evolutionary transitions from B to Z and then from Z to C are now obvious. The argument by fiat is a special case of the argument by misdirection, where in place of a difficult problem that was supposed to be solved, one solves an easier problem that is superficially similar to the original problem.

Argument by definition can be extremely effective. Here the instructor defines a set S to be whatever biological systems satisfy some property. For instance, S might consist of all irreducibly complex molecular machines that are the result of Darwinian evolution. The lecturer then announces that in the future only members of S will be the focus of discussion. Even honors students will take this at face value, not questioning whether the set S might in fact be empty.

Argument by assertion is unanswerable. If, for instance, some vague waffle about an evolutionary transition does not satisfy a recalcitrant student, the instructor simply says, "This point should be intuitively obvious. I've explained it as clearly as I can. If you still cannot see it, you will just have to think very carefully about it yourself, and then you will see how trivial and obvious it is." The instructor at this point might also want to add, "What are you, a creationist?" or "Are you one of those Christian fundamentalists?" Arguments by demonization like this are particularly effective when one or a few students get unruly but the majority sides with the instructor.

Yet when the majority of the class becomes unruly, nothing beats an argument by obscure reference. This will silence all but the most determined troublemaker. Few students take the time or want to take the time to hunt down an obscure reference in the evolutionary literature. And even if students locate the reference (which is becoming easier with the Internet), if the reference is sufficiently technical and difficult to understand, it is an easy matter for the instructor to inform the student that he or she simply doesn't comprehend the relevant passage.

In this case, if the instructor is kind, he or she may simply offer an argument from removable ignorance -- "Just keep studying evolutionary theory, and eventually it will all make sense." If that doesn't work, the instructor may wish to try an argument from stupidity -- "How can you be so stupid?" But if the student is otherwise at the top of the class, this approach may backfire. In that case, either the argument from wickedness ("You are just being perverse") or the argument from insanity ("What are you, nuts?") should do the trick. And always keep the argument by demonization in your front pocket.

A variant of the argument by obscure reference is the argument by irrelevant reference. This works in a pinch when you can be reasonably sure that the student won't track down the reference (perhaps because of time constraints). But be careful -- if the irrelevance is palpable (say you are discussing the evolution of vertebrates and the article you cite is on the evolution of organisms in a completely different phylum or even kingdom), then you may be in trouble if the irrelevancy is pointed out. Make sure the irrelevance is hard to fathom. And then there's the argument by nonexistent reference -- this works best in public debates.

Because the public debate over evolution tends to pit academic high culture against the moronic masses, it is helpful to have a technique specifically for keeping the masses in check and for keeping the academic elite from being seduced by populist sentiments. The argument from aesthetics is the technique of choice here. "This theory is just too beautiful to be false." Evolutionary biologists regularly use this technique to establish the validity of their theories when the evidence for them otherwise is extremely slender.

By now it will be apparent what riches derive from the study of evolutionary logic. I therefore appeal to evolutionary biologists everywhere to institute formal courses in this discipline. This should preferably be done at the undergraduate level so that those who go teaching with only a bachelor's degree will be familiar with the subject. But high school students too should be exposed to the rudiments of evolutionary logic. It is certain that in the future no one will be able to claim a biological education without a firm grounding in the practical applications of evolutionary logic.

This article adapts and extends Paul Dunmore's "The Uses of Fallacy,"
New Zealand Mathematics Magazine, vol. 7, 1970.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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1 posted on 11/03/2002 6:20:35 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
Rotfl. I've seen his more serious work, but I must have missed this bit of jeu d'esprit.
2 posted on 11/03/2002 6:32:52 PM PST by Cicero
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To: Heartlander
Don't forget the evolution alter

the evolution pulpit

the evolution kneeling pads

the evolution holy robes

the evolution catecism of evolution indoctrination

...etc...

Hey! This most popular religion needs some hymns too!

Surely all the evolution seminaries (universities) are working double-time on this
and other pressing needs for their popular faith.

3 posted on 11/03/2002 6:37:36 PM PST by Taiwan Bocks
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To: Heartlander
Just read an article about the human birth process from Time.com http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101021111/story.html and it just reinforces the fact that the more we discover of life, the more complex and amazing it becomes. To paraphrase Dawkins, you would have to be ignorant or evil to hold onto the belief that life (and the universe) was not designed.
4 posted on 11/03/2002 6:42:35 PM PST by adakotab
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To: Heartlander
WIN ONE FOR THE GIPPER

Vote on Tuesday.

Do the right thing.


5 posted on 11/03/2002 6:45:49 PM PST by ChadGore
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To: Cicero
A sense of humor keeps us all sane.

Unfortunately, the scientific biological Darwinian door is marked ‘sane’ for those who go ‘in’…

6 posted on 11/03/2002 6:47:20 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
In case you wondering --

<> Evolutionary Logic. This bit of frivolity adapts and extends Paul Dunmore's "The Uses of Fallacy," New Zealand
Mathematics Magazine, vol. 7, 1970.

   And just so you know --

 The Logical Underpinnings of Intelligent Design. Dr. Dembski's contribution to Debating Design...

7 posted on 11/03/2002 6:52:56 PM PST by gcruse
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To: adakotab
Excellent article – thanks!
8 posted on 11/03/2002 6:53:37 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
print
9 posted on 11/03/2002 6:54:35 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: Heartlander
Dembski has taken to writing fiction. These "arguments" that he supposes are used by academic evolutionary biologists are mere figments of his overactive imagination -- they simply do not occur.
10 posted on 11/03/2002 6:55:01 PM PST by Vercingetorix
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To: Heartlander
From one of Mr. Dembski's articles:

The central issue, therefore, is not the relatedness of all organisms, or what typically is called common descent. Indeed, intelligent design is perfectly compatible with common descent.

Well, I'm glad at least one important issue has been settled - that Genesis is only a metaphor, not a complete description of the mechanics of creation. So, I really don't see the point in continuing this argument. You "anti-evolutionists" can rant and rave all you want about an "intelligence", but it's really a moot point; you accept that science, not the Bible, is the proper method of investigating creation. Some may say this is irrelevant, that the argument is still important, but come on, who are we kidding?
11 posted on 11/03/2002 6:55:38 PM PST by billybudd
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To: Heartlander
Actually, let me address the "intelligent design" argument on its own merits, not just within the Creationism vs. Evolution context. Dembski makes a distinction between what he calls "material mechanisms" and "intelligence", which Darwinism and intelligent design advocate as the process of creation, respectively. The problem is that he never backs up this distinction, he simply assumes it. After all, intelligence is a material mechanism - in the form of neuron action potentials in our brain. It is a physical process subject to physical laws - albeit a complex process which we cannot fully understand. If Dembski refers to some other kind of intelligence, which is not subject to physical constraints, he certainly doesn't define it.
But all of this is moot. Evolutionary theory does not exclude the possibility of intelligent design! I'm amazed as to why people constantly choose to ignore this. The entire intelligent design theory is based on a semantic misunderstanding of the word "random". The intelligent design proponents (actually former Creationists who lost their debate) take the word "random" to make a statement about cause. It doesn't! "Random" simply means we cannot find a predictable pattern for a particular set of phenomena, e.g., random mutations. I really would like to hear somebody's answer to this.
12 posted on 11/03/2002 7:08:16 PM PST by billybudd
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To: billybudd
Well, it comes down to this:
Intelligent Design vs stupid design
13 posted on 11/03/2002 7:12:37 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
Ah yes, insults and sarcasm - truly the Creationist arguments of first resort.
14 posted on 11/03/2002 7:20:02 PM PST by billybudd
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To: billybudd
Ah yes, labeling someone a Creationist… truly Arguments by demonization.
(see above)
15 posted on 11/03/2002 7:27:17 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander; billybudd
I'm curious why creationism/evolution are having trouble with each other.

Is it still over the 10,000 year-old-earth figure? Or has something bigger come up?

16 posted on 11/03/2002 7:35:58 PM PST by txflake
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To: txflake
Evolution: A pruned tree…
Evolution doesn’t bother me but naturalism posing as science does…
17 posted on 11/03/2002 7:44:00 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander; donh; Alamo-Girl; PatrickHenry; longfellow
Gee, so much logic here. don't you know logic is passe'?

The problem with evolution is that there was no one there to observe it. The problem with creationism is there was no one there to observe it. The problem with anything is that everyone can't be there to observe it.

Are there laws that are universal and pervade every corner of the universe? How do you know unless you visit every corner of the universe?

Can't prove evolution, can't prove creationism. What is left to prove?

Kinda scary isn't it?

18 posted on 11/03/2002 7:57:04 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
Can natural causes and empirical data explain all?
Let me answer with no!
19 posted on 11/03/2002 8:05:02 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
Can natural causes and empirical data explain all? Let me answer with no!

Dead link, my friend. no realplayer file found.

But you cannot explain anything separate from natural causes and empirical data. Unless you are a mystic who can make the deity appear at your command.

20 posted on 11/03/2002 8:17:25 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: Heartlander
In all seriousness, there does seem to be a lower standard of proof for evolution. For anything else, they must demonstrate it repeatedly in the lab or the field.

For evolution, if they can descibe a way that it could be CONCEIVED to have happened, then I must accept that it DID happen, or be insulted and accused of 'refusing to see'.
21 posted on 11/03/2002 8:22:39 PM PST by Ahban
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To: LogicWings
Thank you for your post!

You might find the Meditations by Rene Descartes useful to your inquiry. From the synopsis:

1. IN THE First Meditation I expound the grounds on which we may doubt in general of all things, and especially of material objects, so long at least, as we have no other foundations for the sciences than those we have hitherto possessed. Now, although the utility of a doubt so general may not be manifest at first sight, it is nevertheless of the greatest, since it delivers us from all prejudice, and affords the easiest pathway by which the mind may withdraw itself from the senses; and finally makes it impossible for us to doubt wherever we afterward discover truth.[L][F]

22 posted on 11/03/2002 8:32:18 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Heartlander
In evolutionary logic we relax both these restrictions: an evolutionary claim is true provided there is an evolutionary argument that supports it.

It is even worse than that. An evolutionary claim is true even if the evolutionary argument that supports it is false.

Sciam:15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense

As long as the forces of selection stay constant, natural selection can push evolution in one direction and produce sophisticated structures in surprisingly short times. As an analogy, consider the 13-letter sequence "TOBEORNOTTOBE." Those hypothetical million monkeys, each pecking out one phrase a second, could take as long as 78,800 years to find it among the 2613 sequences of that length. But in the 1980s Richard Hardison of Glendale College wrote a computer program that generated phrases randomly while preserving the positions of individual letters that happened to be correctly placed (in effect, selecting for phrases more like Hamlet's). On average, the program re-created the phrase in just 336 iterations, less than 90 seconds. Even more amazing, it could reconstruct Shakespeare's entire play in just four and a half days.

NOTE THE PROGRAM IS EDITED TO DISPLAY THE FALSE ARGUMENT. THE COMPLETE AND UNEDITED PROGRAM CAN BE VIEWED BY FOLLOWING THE LINK.


THE COMPUTER PROGRAM IN APPENDIX E IN "UPON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS" BY 
RICHARD HARDISON

10 REM 1984 R. HARDISON
11 PRINT "RANDOMIZING ALPHABET"
12 PRINT "WRITE HAMLET, KEEPING"
13 PRINT "SUCCESSES."
14 PRINT :; REM N-COUNTER: # OF TRIALS
15 REM T=COUNTER:REUSE "TO BE"
16 PRINT "SUBROUTINE TO
17 PRINT "RANDOMIZE AND SELECT"
18 PRINT "LETTER"
18 PRINT "LETTER"
100 IF X = 20 THEN PRINT "T": IF X = 20 THEN GOTO 120
140 IF X = 15 THEN PRINT "O": IF X = 15 THEN PRINT : IF X = 15 THEN GOTO 160
180 IF X = 2  THEN PRINT "B": IF X = 2 THEN GOTO 200
220 IF X = 5  THEN PRINT "E": IF X = 5 THEN PRINT : IF X = 5 THEN GOTO 240
280 IF X = 15 THEN PRINT "O": IF X = 15 THEN GOTO 300
320 IF X = 18 THEN PRINT "R": IF X = 18 THEN GOTO 340
360 IF X = 14 THEN PRINT "N": IF X = 14 THEN GOTO 380
400 IF X = 15 THEN PRINT "O": IF X = 15 THEN GOTO 420
440 IF X = 20 THEN PRINT "T": IF X = 20 THEN PRINT : IF X = 20 THEN GOTO 60
450 GOTO 420
460 PRINT "N=";N;" KEYS PRESSED TO WRITE 'TO BE OR NOT TO BE'"
470 PRINT "FOR";G;" RUN(S) OF PROGRAM"
480 PRINT
490 NEXT G
500 END
510 REM  IF THE PROGRAM WERE
511 REM  WRITTEN TO INCLUDE
512 REM  PUNCTUATION MARKS ETC.
513 REM  THE PROGRAM WOULD
514 REM  TAKE LONGER, BUT WOULD
515 REM  STILL NOT BE PROHIBI-
516 REM  TIVE
517 PRINT
518 PRINT  "WITH 3000 RUNS, THE MEAN"
519 PRINT  "# of trials=333"
520 PRINT  "THE MEAN TIME REQUIRED"
521 PRINT  "WAS .14 MINUTES TO PRINT"
522 PRINT  "TOBEORNOTTOBE"



23 posted on 11/03/2002 8:32:58 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: Alamo-Girl
no. I want your opinions or forget it.

I am not interested in finding errors in the musings of ancient philosophers. I am not talking to them and you are not a professor lecturing me on what I need to study.

I been there.

Explain your point or bye.

24 posted on 11/03/2002 8:42:15 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: *crevo_list; Heartlander
Index ping.

While the article doesn'tdevelop the theory of evolutionary logic in detail, it sure hits some of the invalid arguments we see in print and here on FR. Great article.

25 posted on 11/03/2002 8:50:13 PM PST by scripter
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To: LogicWings
Thank you for your post!

The problem with creationism is there was no one there to observe it.

God observed creation and He testified to it in the Word. He continues being, so you can ask Him directly if you wish.

26 posted on 11/03/2002 8:58:47 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Vercingetorix
These "arguments" that he supposes are used by academic evolutionary biologists are mere figments of his overactive imagination -- they simply do not occur.

Of course they do. In fact it started with Darwin's 'proofs'. Here is a great example:

He who will go thus far, if he find on finishing this treatise that large bodies of facts, otherwise inexplicable, can be explained by the theory of descent, ought not to hesitate to go further, and to admit that a structure even as perfect as the eye of an eagle might be formed by natural selection, although in this case he does not know any of the transitional grades. His reason ought to conquer his imagination; though I have felt the difficulty far too keenly to be surprised at any degree of hesitation in extending the principle of natural selection to such startling lengths.
From: Origin of the Species, Chapter 6

In other words, because we have bothered to read through a few hundred pages of his nonsense we need to jump to the conclusion that the eye was built gradually. Some proof! Some nonsense, and exactly what Dembski is talking about.

27 posted on 11/03/2002 8:59:05 PM PST by gore3000
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To: LogicWings
The problem with creationism is there was no one there to observe it.

I would not say that. Everyday we see humans born from humans, dogs born from dogs, cats born from cats yet no one has ever seen anything evolve. Seems the proof, the overwhelming proof is on the anti-evolutionist side.

28 posted on 11/03/2002 9:02:39 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Alamo-Girl
God observed creation and He testified to it in the Word. He continues being, so you can ask Him directly if you wish.

I'm sorry I brought it up. Most of these words are undefined. These sentences have no meaning. Please have God show up at the UN and explain.

29 posted on 11/03/2002 9:04:29 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: gore3000
I would not say that. Everyday we see humans born from humans, dogs born from dogs, cats born from cats yet no one has ever seen anything evolve. Seems the proof, the overwhelming proof is on the anti-evolutionist side.

C'mon Gore. You see humans born from humans, not humans born from nothing. Not species created by fiat from nothing.

There is no 'proof' on either side. That is why it is just a theory. (and don't give me that, 'they teach it as fact stuff.' *I* don't say it is a fact, just a theory.) But there is no evidence of the central premise of creationism. There is no central premise for evolution, other than the existence of the world as we know it now.

30 posted on 11/03/2002 9:10:55 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: Alamo-Girl
You are wasting your bandwidth. As you probably notice he redefines words to his liking, (IIRC) even so far as to contradict himself.
31 posted on 11/03/2002 9:11:41 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: LogicWings
I agree, theory. We have head-spinning adaptation of viruses on one hand, and crocodiles who refuse to budge an inch over 100 million years on the other.
32 posted on 11/03/2002 9:18:33 PM PST by txflake
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To: LogicWings
Thanks for your post!

Please have God show up at the UN and explain.

Christ will show up, but not at the UN - at Mount Zion, as promised in the Word; and no explanation will be given.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. - Isaiah 45:23

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. - Revelation 19:11 and continuing through 16

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; - Philippians 2:10


33 posted on 11/03/2002 9:20:46 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: AndrewC
You are wasting your bandwidth. As you probably notice he redefines words to his liking, (IIRC) even so far as to contradict himself.

where did I contradict myself?

34 posted on 11/03/2002 9:23:42 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: AndrewC
Thank you so much for your post!

LogicWings and I have ended two conversations for failure to communicate and this will likely end the same way. But I always pray before posting on these types of threads; and tonight I felt compelled to make a few observations.

35 posted on 11/03/2002 9:24:43 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Christ will show up, but not at the UN - at Mount Zion, as promised in the Word; and no explanation will be given.

and how long will it take before you all realize that 'this generation' has long since passed away, and it ain't gonna happen?

36 posted on 11/03/2002 9:25:21 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
Thank you again for your post!

I assure you, based on personal spiritual knowledge (I Corinthians 2) - that Christ came as the suffering lamb (Isaiah 53 and Psalms 22) but that He will return as the conquering lion, so long expected by the Jews and prophesied by the Word.

We have again broached the failure to communicate because, in this case, I am using a "foreign language." In the previous two discussions, I couldn't relate to your language (LOL!)

It's been nice discussing with you, LogicWings!

37 posted on 11/03/2002 9:44:49 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
We have again broached the failure to communicate because, in this case, I am using a "foreign language." In the previous two discussions, I couldn't relate to your language (LOL!)

Ohh, I understand the language just fine. I know more than you give me credit for.

By the way, is there such a thing as 'impersonal spiritual knowledge' as opposed to 'personal spiritual knowledge?'

38 posted on 11/03/2002 10:05:04 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
By the way, is there such a thing as 'impersonal spiritual knowledge' as opposed to 'personal spiritual knowledge?'

I would call conscience an 'impersonal spiritual knowledge.'

Thanks for your post!

39 posted on 11/03/2002 10:12:16 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
I would call conscience an 'impersonal spiritual knowledge.'

How is it spiritual and how is it impersonal?

40 posted on 11/03/2002 10:24:49 PM PST by LogicWings
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: txflake
I agree, theory. We have head-spinning adaptation of viruses on one hand, and crocodiles who refuse to budge an inch over 100 million years on the other.

yeah, think about what you said here. and who is it that wants to define exactly what is happening here, based upon what evidence?

How do you know that crocodiles haven't budged an inch in over 100 million years? Is this accurate information? Based on what? How do you know what a crocodile looked like 100 million years ago? How do you know the earth has existed for 100 million years, as opposed to 6000?

I'm sorry. I'm tired.

42 posted on 11/03/2002 10:42:04 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
How is it spiritual and how is it impersonal?

IMHO, conscience is impersonal because it doesn't require one to commune with God - and it is spiritual because it is exists, but not as a part, or result, of that which is material.

43 posted on 11/03/2002 10:47:31 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: Heartlander
You know what gets me about this subject?

Why is it important? What difference does it make? Do any of you really think this subject makes any difference whether you eat tomorrow, whether you get that job tomorrow, whether your kid passes math tomorrow?

Does it really matter to God whether you believe that life began in the ocean or was created by fiat if you give the beggar a crust of bread? Whose better, the atheist who gives the beggar a crust of bread or the Christian who doesn't? What does any of this really matter to an Infinite Being?

The idea is absurd. Is God so blind that HE would cast a kind heart into everlasting torment because of the failure to believe an arbitrary notion as opposed to cruel rapist catholic priest because he believed the correct thing?

This is all children playing in the sand.

45 posted on 11/03/2002 10:50:45 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: Heartlander
I'm not "demonizing" you. I'm simply pointing out that "intelligent design" proponents are usually closet Creationists and they usually have to resort to insults to cover for their lack of argumentation. I have offered my arguments for why "intelligent design" theory is bunk. You have not contested anything I've said, just made insults.
46 posted on 11/03/2002 11:02:33 PM PST by billybudd
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To: billybudd
To: Dimensio

As I see it, evolution is an ideological(RELIGION)* doctrine(DOGMA)*.

If it were only a "scientific theory", it would have died a natural death 50 - 70 years ago; the evidence against it is too overwhelming and has been all along. The people defending it are doing so because they do not like the alternatives to an atheistic basis for science and do not like the logical implications of abandoning their atheistic paradigm and, in conducting themselves that way, they have achieved a degree of immunity to what most people call logic.

488 posted on 7/29/02 5:18 AM Pacific by medved

Great quote. Thanks for posting it.


294 posted on 10/18/02 11:59 AM Pacific by AnnaZ


*...my addition!

47 posted on 11/03/2002 11:34:03 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
Wow. You didn't even respond to anything I said.
48 posted on 11/03/2002 11:46:00 PM PST by billybudd
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To: billybudd
To: BMCDA

Ohhhh! I see, you just have to have faith. And if you have faith it's automatically true. Nice trick ;-D

Atheism requires an active belief system. Since no absolute evidence refutes God’s existence, one is required to reject (and reject and reject). A belief without absolute facts requires faith. Does your faith and belief make it true?


351 posted on 8/28/02 5:08 PM Pacific by Heartlander



49 posted on 11/03/2002 11:48:54 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: All
"The root of the problem is that "science" has two distinct definitions in our culture. On the one hand, science refers to a method of investigation involving things like careful measurements, repeatable experiments, and especially a skeptical, open-minded attitude that insists that all claims be carefully tested. Science also has become identified with a philosophy known as materialism or scientific naturalism. This philosophy insists that nature is all there is, or at least the only thing about which we can have any knowledge. It follows that nature had to do its own creating, and that the means of creation must not have included any role for God. Students are not supposed to approach this philosophy with open-minded skepticism, but to believe it on faith."

"The reason the theory of evolution is so controversial is that it is the...main scientific prop(link next post)---for scientific naturalism. Students first learn that "evolution is a fact," and then they gradually learn more and more about what that "fact" means. It means that all living things are the product of mindless material forces such as chemical laws, natural selection, and random variation. So God is totally out of the picture, and humans (like everything else) are the accidental product of a purposeless universe. Do you wonder why a lot of people suspect that these claims go far beyond the available evidence?"


50 posted on 11/03/2002 11:57:33 PM PST by f.Christian
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