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Defense Rests in Florida Gun Trial (Gun Lawsuit goes to Jury!)
Palm Beach Post, Austin American Statesman, AP ^ | Friday, November 8, 2002 | Bill Douthat

Posted on 11/08/2002 3:54:54 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy

Defense Rests in Florida Gun Trial

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP)--A lawsuit against the distributor of a handgun known as the ``Saturday Night Special''--filed by the widow of a slain middle school teacher--is heading to the jury.

Defense attorneys for Valor Corp. rested their case Thursday, after insisting the Raven handgun used to kill teacher Barry Grunow is not a defective product. The jury is expected to begin deliberations next week.

Grunow's widow, Pam Grunow, is seeking $75 million in damages because she alleges the gun, known as a ``Saturday Night Special'' because of its small size and low cost, is unreasonably dangerous and should have safety devices that would prevent its use by minors.

``Nothing went wrong with this Raven,'' said Valor attorney Jeff Cohen. ``Unfortunately, it worked exactly as designed.''

Nathaniel Brazill was 13 when he fatally shot Barry Grunow in a school hallway in May 2000. Brazill, now 16, was convicted last year of second-degree murder and is serving a 28-year prison term.

The case has drawn national attention because it is the first to address both the absence of a gun lock and the flaws associated with a cheap, easily concealable weapon that looks like a toy.

AP-NY-11-08-02 0526EST

----------------------------------

(2nd Story Below)

Defense rests in gun liability lawsuit

By Bill Douthat, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer Friday, November 8, 2002

WEST PALM BEACH -- The defense rested Thursday in the product liability lawsuit against gun distributor Valor Corp., allowing the case to go to the jury next week.

Valor is being sued for $75 million by Pam Grunow for selling the gun used by a student to kill her teacher husband, Barry Grunow.

Circuit Judge Jorge Labarga said he probably would allow the jury decide whether the student, Nathaniel Brazill, shot Grunow intentionally or accidentally.

If jurors find it was an accidental shooting, as Brazill has claimed, the jury could assign part of the negligence to Brazill and reduce the amount Valor would pay.

Bob Montgomery, Pam Grunow's attorney, said he is confident the jury will decide the shooting was intentional, removing Brazill as a potential negligent party.

Still, Labarga could decide to add the gun's owner, Elmore McCray, and the Palm Beach County School District to the verdict form. Brazill took the gun from an unlocked drawer in McCray's home.

Valor attorneys say the school district should be held partly responsible for Grunow's death because Brazill was able to return to the Lake Worth Middle School campus after he was sent home for throwing water balloons.

Over Valor's objections, the judge will instruct jurors that the.25-caliber Raven handgun used in the murder has been considered among the small, cheap guns known as Saturday night specials.

Valor's attorneys say the term is prejudicial to their defense. The Sunrise-based gun distributor claims the Raven handgun is not a defective product.

"Nothing went wrong with this Raven," said Valor attorney Jeff Cohen. "Unfortunately, it worked exactly as designed."

bill_douthat@pbpost.com


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; gunconfiscation; guncontrol; gunlawsuit

1 posted on 11/08/2002 3:54:54 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: Truth Telling Guy
They are trying to sneak in all their gun control crap right after the election. The judge probably held back sending this case to jury case until after the elections.
2 posted on 11/08/2002 3:59:49 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: feinswinesuksass
See this also:

Fort Myers police chief targets guns (Why Not Go After Criminals & Leave Citizens Alone?)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/784001/posts
3 posted on 11/08/2002 4:04:09 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: Truth Telling Guy
Just more proof there are morans out there that think a gun can walk, talk, and shoot on it's own.
4 posted on 11/08/2002 4:06:33 AM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: waterstraat; Woahhs; Travis McGee; SrBahamonde; PatrioticAmerican; FreeTally; ArrogantBustard; ...
This is the gun gabbers dream.
5 posted on 11/08/2002 4:14:55 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: OXENinFLA
Court says Chicago can try linking Crime, Gun Industry

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/783923/posts
6 posted on 11/08/2002 4:15:32 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: Truth Telling Guy
I'm so sick of these whiners trying to blame objects to get money or more laws.
Where is their common sense? People KILL..whether it's a knife, anthrax, an SUV or a gun.
7 posted on 11/08/2002 4:45:36 AM PST by Sungirl
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To: Truth Telling Guy
So what is the 'Saturday Night Special' thing all about? You will always hear the same old line, "cheap, easily concealable, easily available handguns". We can dispose of 'easily available' right off the bat. That's an obvious lie, because all handguns are available under exactly the same laws, so these guns are no more or less available than any other. 'Easily concealable' is also BS, as we gun owners know that making a full-size .45 Government model disappear into your clothing isn't much of a problem. Also, with so many states allowing CCW permits, 'concealable' is perfectly legal and legitimate. So we finally get down to the truth - 'cheap'.

You see, the liberals hold this racist, classist stereotype where it's merely uncomfortable for them to have rich Joe Yuppie to carrying his $500 Glock around, but it's absolutely terrrifiying for them to have poor black Leroy Washington or poor brown Jose Jimenez packing their $50 Raven .25 auto. I mean, surely this ghetto trash will down a few '40s' of malt liquor or a few shots of cheap tequilia on Saturday night, and end up killing a few people in a barfight over some hoar, or robbing & shooting some innocent person in a alcohol- and/or drug-induced haze. This bigotted, offensive view of the poor is where the term 'Saturday Night Special' comes from.

So next time you hear a liberal using the term 'Saturady Night Special', get outraged and indignantly call them on their racism. I've done this several times, and left the liberal idiots sputtering in embarassment. I just love using their own political correctness against them. ;^)

8 posted on 11/08/2002 4:56:32 AM PST by Vigilant1
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To: Vigilant1
Great post.

For info on the historical, and bigoted, origin of the term 'Saturday Night Special' see Bill Levinson's The Stentorian.

Could have been overheard at a Klan meeting

"Hey there, Billy Jeff! How is the gun control legislation going?"

"Pretty good, Fleagle the Kleagle. We're passing laws to restrict or ban inexpensive handguns that are often purchased by the 'wrong' elements of society, if you get my meaning."

"Sure do, Billy Jefferson. It would be pretty bad if, the next time we decided to lynch a [Black] or maybe hitch him to the back of a pickup truck and give him a nice ride the way they did in Jasper, Texas, he was to pull one of them 'Saturday Night Specials' and shoot hisself some of the good old boys!"

"You mean 'N****rtown Saturday Night Specials,' don't you, Fleagle the Kleagle? That's what we called them back in the 19th century."

"'N****rtown Saturday Night Specials' is right, Billy Jeff. Them 'liberals' think us good old boys is ignorant white trash, but they don't even know the racist origin of one of their favorite buzzwords! Sounds like they're the ignorant ones."


9 posted on 11/08/2002 5:10:22 AM PST by Fixit
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To: Sungirl; *bang_list
Sungirl,

The creatures pressing these absurd allegations know full well the truth of the matter. Their agenda is to disarm the law-abiding civilian populace, leaving government and it's agents with a monopoly on lethal force. Any angle, any opportunity will suffice.

Once you understand this agenda, their actions become very clear, and quite predictable.


10 posted on 11/08/2002 5:16:36 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: Joe Brower
Correct and don't assume they are above creating opportunities ...
11 posted on 11/08/2002 5:22:41 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: Joe Brower
You mean they don't really care about the deaths of the innocent children?? :)

I wouldn't think that Pam Grunow would care about the ultimate agenda though...so she just must be an (ignorant/greedy/revengeful) pawn.

12 posted on 11/08/2002 5:40:12 AM PST by Sungirl
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To: Truth Telling Guy
Unfortunately, the commie lib sheeple in West Palm Beach will blame the gun. It's typical liberalism: people aren't responsible for their actions, but inanimate objects are.
13 posted on 11/08/2002 5:45:30 AM PST by Thane_Banquo
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To: Truth Telling Guy
Any idea how long the jury is likely to deliberate?
14 posted on 11/08/2002 5:50:21 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants
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To: Sungirl
A pawn -- yes, exactly. Who stands to get rich at the expense of the freedoms of millions.

No better than a worm.


15 posted on 11/08/2002 5:58:26 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: Truth Telling Guy
don't assume they are above creating opportunities

By no means. It is quite clear that the radical leftists will utilize any and every opportunity presented them, as well as lie, cheat, steal, even kill to further their statist agenda. Anything they can get away with.


16 posted on 11/08/2002 6:00:05 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: Blood of Tyrants
I'm sure the crooked judge and prosecutor have try their best to stock the jury with very easy to manipulate people they can uninform and connive into ruling against the gun maker.
17 posted on 11/08/2002 6:13:25 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: Blood of Tyrants
I'm sure the crooked judge and prosecutor have try their best to stock the jury with very easy to manipulate people they can uninform and connive into ruling against the gun maker.
18 posted on 11/08/2002 6:13:32 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: Joe Brower
...as well as lie, cheat, steal, even kill to further their statist agenda. Anything they can get away with.

Exactly!

19 posted on 11/08/2002 6:14:58 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: dd5339; cavtrooper21
ping
20 posted on 11/08/2002 6:15:34 AM PST by Vic3O3
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To: Truth Telling Guy
Fortunately, the defence lawyer gets the same chance to select a jury.
21 posted on 11/08/2002 6:37:14 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants
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To: Blood of Tyrants
But he ain't the judge.
22 posted on 11/08/2002 6:45:11 AM PST by Truth Telling Guy
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To: Blood of Tyrants
"Fortunately, the defence lawyer gets the same chance to select a jury."

Within very sharply-defined limits, yes.
But the defense does not get to "Instruct" the jury.

23 posted on 11/08/2002 7:06:32 AM PST by Redbob
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To: Vigilant1
I liked your post. Gun control is a racist plot to control the minorities in this country.
24 posted on 11/08/2002 7:10:01 AM PST by Rebelbase
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To: Truth Telling Guy
I don't think the plantif will prevail here, and even if she does, I look for this to be overturned.
25 posted on 11/08/2002 7:37:21 AM PST by FreeTally
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To: Truth Telling Guy
Court says Chicago can try linking Crime, Gun Industry

I'm orginaly from Kankakee 60 Miles south of Chicago. I know how wacky the gun laws are in IL, Home of F.O.I.D. Drove me nuts. Thats one reason I live in FL now

26 posted on 11/08/2002 7:38:02 AM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: Truth Telling Guy
If jurors find it was an accidental shooting, as Brazill has claimed, the jury could assign part of the negligence to Brazill and reduce the amount Valor would pay.

Bob Montgomery, Pam Grunow's attorney, said he is confident the jury will decide the shooting was intentional, removing Brazill as a potential negligent party.

Ok, all together now ... 1, 2, 3 ... roll your eyes.

27 posted on 11/08/2002 7:58:09 AM PST by Database
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To: Database
Aint it grand how an attorney will say that the person who intentionaly commited an act isn't the negligent one?

That's why I say this would be overturned on appeal if the plantif prevails. The facts of the case do not, under any circumstance, show that Raven was negligent. For a judgement to stand, the facts have to at least show something. The plantif admits that the perp committed an intentional act. There is no concept of law that lets someone collect damages under "negligence" from a third party where there was an intentional act. The case shouldn't have even been allowed in the first place.

28 posted on 11/08/2002 8:02:39 AM PST by FreeTally
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To: Truth Telling Guy
The big cities are becoming the Nation of the Enslaved. The more rural areas remain the Land of the Free. Two nations in one body. "Multiple Ideaology Disorder"?
29 posted on 11/08/2002 8:07:13 AM PST by pabianice
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To: Truth Telling Guy
I guess the kid was not adept enough to build his own firearm in metal shop...Still the student is a real Jackass, but the widow seems to be taking on the wrong issue here...it was after all the student that pulled the trigger, not the manufacturer.
30 posted on 11/08/2002 8:30:19 AM PST by MD_Willington_1976
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To: MD_Willington_1976
I guess the kid was not adept enough to build his own firearm in metal shop...

Many years ago I knew a guy that made one-shot .22s the size of a ball point pen to be carried in the shirt pocket. I'll bet a little research would reveal the plans.

31 posted on 11/08/2002 8:38:28 AM PST by bankwalker
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To: MD_Willington_1976
yes it was the kid that pulled the trigger but it is the gun company that has the money.

Btw I've shot a Raven before. cute little gun. I did not see any defective mechanisms. it was steady and reliable.
32 posted on 11/08/2002 8:41:29 AM PST by Bane
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To: bankwalker
A .22 zip gun is too simple...heck we made a single shot 12 guage shotgun with an evil pistol grip out of a hexagonal steel rod in high school...never did anything with it though, handed it in for grading to the teacher and then destroyed it, it can be done easy enough.
33 posted on 11/08/2002 8:45:15 AM PST by MD_Willington_1976
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To: Truth Telling Guy
You can go here for more info, including a picture.

From the above:
"Since Raven Arms has long been out of business, Grunow is now going after Valor Corp., a Sunrise-based distributor of firearms. Valor sold the Raven .25 used in Grunow’s death to Hypoluxo Pawn Shop, which sold it to Elmore McCray, Brazill’s surrogate grandfather.

Having already settled with Hypoluxo and McCray, Grunow now wants Valor to be punished, claiming the company sold an inherently unsafe and defective product. In Florida, a distributor or dealer can be held as liable as a manufacturer, so the lawsuit is plausible."

34 posted on 11/08/2002 9:04:56 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: FreeTally
"That's why I say this would be overturned on appeal if the plantif prevails."

That - and because Florida statewide is a conservative state, with likely-conservative appellate courts. This case doesn't even meet the "but for" essential element of proximate cause; there's no proof that the absence of a cheap .25 would have kept this twerp from either finding a better gun to shoot that teacher with - or that he wouldn't have stabbed that teacher to death.

There is such a long line of appellate cases holding that gunmakers aren't liable to crime victims that federal judges actually read it into the record when dismissing such cases.

Scandals of antigun politicians - from Kalifornia to Manhattan!

35 posted on 11/08/2002 9:33:43 AM PST by glc1173@aol.com
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To: Vigilant1
Yes, this is what has happened in England. Only the rich can afford to pay the exhorbitant fees the government imposes. So you get what you have there: a city like London where violent crime with handguns (which are completely illegal there) is sky rocketing. Stupid limeys. We should have let the Germans flatten them when we had the chance.
36 posted on 11/08/2002 10:03:42 AM PST by zingzang
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To: Truth Telling Guy
Doesn't the GOP have a majority in the the Florida legislature? If so, why haven't they blocked these frivolous suits like other states have?
37 posted on 11/08/2002 10:04:52 AM PST by Tree of Liberty
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To: Truth Telling Guy
So the perp was innocent after all. The gun did it.
38 posted on 11/08/2002 12:15:06 PM PST by FR_addict
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To: Truth Telling Guy

Bob Montgomery, Pam Grunow's attorney, said he is confident the jury will decide the shooting was intentional, removing Brazill as a potential negligent party.

Witness the intentional inversion of justice. Bob Montgomery can kiss his career good-bye.

39 posted on 11/08/2002 1:02:35 PM PST by Zon
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To: Truth Telling Guy
The gun manufacturers should DEFY the stupid courts and refuse to pay."ANOTHER BLACK ROBED THIEF ALERT"!
40 posted on 11/08/2002 2:39:26 PM PST by INSENSITIVE GUY
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To: Tree of Liberty
Florida law blocks MUNICIPALITIES (cities, counties, etc.) from suing gun manufacturers, not individuals.
41 posted on 11/08/2002 5:54:12 PM PST by Clemenza
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To: Truth Telling Guy
Jury manipulation is a science all its own - and one that corrupt judges and prosecutors have become very skilled at. It is a perversion of the judicial process and of justice itself. I think we're at the point where a jury should be completely random, with no "cherry-picking" allowed.
42 posted on 11/08/2002 8:54:59 PM PST by henderson field
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