Physical Evidence Points to Foul-Play in TWA Flight 800 Disaster

11/9/02 | John Fiorentino

[JohnFiorentino]

(Below are excerpts from a forthcoming story on TWA Flight 800. They are being released now in the interest of furthering the goal of re-opening the investigation into that air disaster)

Evidence I have recently uncovered would seem to indicate that the pellets referred to in the BNLabs report may be an indicator of foul play re: TWA800. (The pellets being referred to here were recovered from several victims of the crash at autopsy)

The general consensus among several experts I have contacted indicates the pellets are CMC's or Ceramic Matrix Composites. (most likely pizeoelectric ceramics) Boeing has already indicated to me that they are NOT from the aircraft.

I have investigated the possibility these pellets may have come from the engines of the 747. However, in conversations and research with Pratt & Whitney I have ruled this out. Although some CMC's are utilized on P&W later model engines they were not in use on the engine models which powered TWA Fl800.

Below you will find some information regarding these materials.

(Some sources have been witheld)

+++++++++++

Piezoelectric materials generate an electrical voltage when their surfaces are stretched or compressed as a result of vibration.

++++++++++++

Over time, the company began to investigate other applications for its bone conduction technology. "In the early 70s, we started to work with General Dynamics on the Stinger Missile System,"

Harold Holsopple, President, Sensory Devices, Inc.,

+++++++++++++++

I apologize for not responding earlier. ........ from your description, it appears that the material could be some type of titanate-zirconate. Ca and Ba are common elements found in titanates. These are mostly piezoelectric ceramic materials.

My experience is mostly in mechanical properties of structural type ceramics. These appear to be electronic ceramics.

(Source witheld)

In conclusion, it would appear that the NTSB's stated "mechanical failure" scenario is the LEAST likely among the three categories initially considered -- Bomb, Missile, Mechanical failure.

Based on the foregoing I believe NTSB and FBI should be compelled to re-open their investigations.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Copyright 2002, John E. Fiorentino -- All rights reserved

[timestax]

Good luck...you will NEVER get FBI to reopen the case. Too many lies!

[stands2reason]

bttt

[timestax]

How about the 25 knot speedboat that Mr. James Kallstrom "morphed" into a "helicopter"! Like, um, why did he do that?

[TXnMA]

Piezoelectric ceramics could be used in the igniter/triggering mechanism for a shoulder-fired missile -- but I have no info that such an actual application exists.

Titanate-zirconates used as piezolectric sensors/generators ase pure ceramics (oxides -- as indicated by the '-ate' suffix). They most certainly are not ceramic metal composites.

Don't know how this impacts your theory -- unless you were were trying to make the logic leap that the presence of ceramic/metal composites indicates the presence of a piezoelectrically fired or fuzed missile. In that case, your theory falls apart. Ceramic/metal composites and piezoelectric ceramics are totally different animals.

[ctnoell]

And all of those eyewitness accounts "of seeing flaming missile streaking upward toward the aircraft prior to explosion" were quickly swept under the rug. Al-Qaeda? Not that far-fetched. I had always wondered with all of those Stinger missiles in Afghan hands and the break-away Soviet republics selling former Soviet submarines to Iran around that same time period. I hate to sound like Barbra Streisand, but maybe we have a cover-up? I wouldn't put it past Clinton to do exactly that, with the '96 election looming only months after the crash.

[thatdewd]

Does anybody remember the news story about the young palestinian kid that told his teacher not to fly that month because he heard the grownups at the mosque saying a plane would crash then?. I later heard another story say it was an urban legend, but a while back I read a followup story (which I thought I bookmarked, but didnt) that said it wasn't and the case was still open. Anybody have any links on that? (or did the second reporter need tinfoil?)

[thatdewd]

Note to self: NEVERMIND, I got my flights mixed up.

[JohnFiorentino]

I indicate in the article these are EXCERPTS. There will be a more forthcoming. I assure you, I have made no "leaps in logic." Why not wait for the full story?

[TXnMA]

ase = are

[JohnFiorentino]

BTW Where do you see the term "ceramic-metal" composites in my article?

[Demidog]

Have you cross-referenced your findings with Janes? Are there any American military missles used in the AEGIS system which use CMC's?

[fabian]

I think Clinton knew it was a missile but didn't have the leadership that Bush has to fight a war.

[WFTR]

I think Clinton knew it was a missile but didn't have the leadership that Bush has to fight a war.

I don't know what Clinton knew or even have a strong opinion about how the plane crashed. However, I'm certain that Clinton would have wanted to avoid the finding of a missile. The people had been lulled into forgetting that the first job of government is to protect us from foreign enemies, and Clinton knew that if they remembered, they'd turn him out of office.

WFTR
Bill

[MatthewViti]

Terrorists always loved to target TWA...

http://www.terrorismvictims.org/terrorists/twa-847-hijacking.html

[SoCar]

Of course it was foul play.

[Bogie]

Clinton's pals were making too much money on "The New Economy."

[timestax]

bump $$$$$$

[Pistias]

I hate to sound like Barbra Streisand, but maybe we have a cover-up? I wouldn't put it past Clinton to do exactly that, with the '96 election looming only months after the crash.

Which do you think is the more likely scenario:

a)Clinton is a democrat; thus, military action is antithetical to much of his support structure, and thus he (or an agent) suppresses evidence of military action against a civilian target...

b)Someone or something on that flight needed blowing up, bad....

c)f*ck-up from a military source.

[glock rocks]

maybe the copilot pushed the rudder controls too hard and the center tank exploded. yah, that's it.

you doubting thomases just need to watch the cia cartoon again. the koolaid is black cherry. mmmmmm.

[ctnoell]

Of the three, choice "b" is most likely. Vince Foster, Ron Brown, who's next? With choice "a", eventhough Clinton loathed the military, he still found it useful to wipe his scandals off of the front pages. With choice "c", I doubt that our military may have screwed up (eventhough Kennedy's former press secretary, Pierre S*******, whatever his name is, thinks this). However, that too is possible as Clinton allowed our military to decay from the prominence we enjoyed during the late 80's/early 90's. Who knows?

[exnavy]

One thing is very clear to most of us,this was no accident. Who ever was behind this got away with it because of gubment ineptitude.

[pie_eater]

Military screwups are one thing when you're in a battle zone and there are armed pilots flying around. As in the El Al flight that was shot down last year or in the two helicopters full of generals that were supposedly shot down over Iraq about 10 years ago by our own pilots (although I heard from a source that they were actually taken down by ground fire).

But in an era where they wouldn't even let our Naval guards on ships carry loaded weapons (remember the USS Cole...the guards' weapons weren't loaded so they couldn't shoot the speedboat), I doubt that a military screwup would shoot down the plane, as there wouldn't be a military there to screw up.

But don't discount "A". There are many things that the governments suppresses because they don't want to deal with them at the time. What fool thinks that the tail of that jet just fell off and crashed it into Rockaway? It was a bomb, clearly.

[TXnMA]

BTW Where do you see the term "ceramic-metal" composites in my article?

You are, of course, correct. However, "CMC" is frequently used for both "Ceramic Metal Composites" and "Ceramic Metal Composites".

IF piezoelectric ceramic composites were used in a missile, they would probably be in the form of a small chip or slab that produces a spark when struck. (Think of the 'squeeze trgger to light' butane gadgets used for lighting gas grills, etc.) Such a device could conceivably be used to trigger the launch or to trigger the warhead upon impact.

In either case, I don't see how a significant number of piezoelectric CMC "pellets" would be involved in a single missile.

BTW, I probably have as many questions (and doubts) about the govt story on Flt 800 as 'most anyone, and I am definitely interested in the info that a significant number of CMC pellets were found embedded in corpses. And, I expect that a missile may have been involved.

I just can't see a connection between a significant number of CMC pellets (piezoelectric or otherwise) and a missile...

Please keep digging; the pony must be in there somewhere!

TXnMA (No Longer!!!)

[TXnMA]

both "Ceramic Metal Composites" and "Ceramic Metal Matrix Composites".

[Wil H]

Military screwups are one thing when you're in a battle zone and there are armed pilots flying around.

...Except the navy WERE testing a forward linked radar missile guidance system right underneath the crash area at the time of the crash...

[JohnFiorentino]

I think I HAVE "the pony".........as I said there is more to this story, which I will publish shortly. Again, the above are just excerpts from my research.

[Asmodeus]

"John Fiorentino--Author--Record Producer--Independent researcher & Paralegal Investigator. Author of forthcoming book on the assassination of President Kennedy."

Are you contending that "the pellets" came from a missile - or a bomb?

Donaldson Brothers TWA800 forum
From: John Fiorentino - 14 January 2001
As the author of a forthcoming book on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and in my occupation as a Paralegal, having investigated many "conspiracy" theories, it would seem the first step would be to prove conclusively that TWA Flight 800 was IN FACT downed by a missile or missiles. [emphasis yours]

Yahoo TWA800 forum
From: John Fiorentino - 28 May 2001
Subject: Seeking comments on this story
FBI questions crash victims' families about mysterious luggage tag
October 27, 1996 NEW YORK (CNN) -- Investigators probing the crash of TWA Flight 800 want to know more about a man named William Kabofovic, whose name was not on the passenger list but did turn up on a piece of luggage in the wreckage.

Yahoo TWA800 forum - April 12, 2002
From: John Fiorentino
Subject: Re: [twa800] Kabofovic revisited
[excerpt][quote]
Most here are convinced a "missile" did the dirty deed. I'm not, not yet at least. The initial assessment was "bomb". I thought so to. I still do.
[end quote]

(a) If you still contend that, please provide us all with the reference source URL's you are relying on.
(b) If you don't still contend that, please explain why and provide us all with the reference source URL's that caused you to change your mind.

[TXnMA]

I think I HAVE "the pony"

If so, and your solution fits the evidence. you're going to find many FReepers (including me) eager to "hitch up their wagons" behind you!

[Asmodeus]

"the navy WERE testing a forward linked radar missile guidance system right underneath the crash area at the time of the crash."

Please provide us all with the reference source URL you are relying on.

[Asmodeus]

Your #1: "(Some sources have been witheld)"

The only "source" you have given is the name of Harold Holsopple, President, Sensory Devices, Inc. who you allege told you - Over time, the company began to investigate other applications for its bone conduction technology. "In the early 70s, we started to work with General Dynamics on the Stinger Missile System" - and only one of those sentences is in quotes. You didn't include ANY documentation.

Your #27: "as I said there is more to this story, which I will publish shortly. "

Approximately when? Will it include documentation?

Will you publish the "story" in its entirety FIRST here in FreeRepublic?

Or will you try to SELL it first to a Commercial publisher?

In short, were your postings of the excerpts of "the story" here in FreeRepublic 11/08/2002 10:50 PM - and in Message #10126 in the Yahoo TWA800 forum Nov 8, 2002 11:04 pm, promos to help you sell "the story" to a Commercial publisher?

There's nothing wsrong with an author trying to sell his wares but I think the readers here in FreeRepublic would like to see your answers to those questions.

[Wil H]

I will have to research it for you but it was in the first report that Donaldson issued, I'm sure if you go to TWA800.com you will find references. Right now I'm late for an appointment. I'll get back to you in a day or so.

[Asmodeus]

"And all of those eyewitness accounts of seeing flaming missile streaking upward toward the aircraft prior to explosion" were quickly swept under the rug."

Most assumed the same thing initially, including James Kallstrom, because of the reports flooding in to the Coast Guard and the Suffolk County Sheriff's office of a fiery streak ending in a Massive Fireball, the assumption being that the Massive Fireball explosion was the 747 blowing up when struck by a missile. However, the timeline and altitudes of the major events was approximately as follows.

8:31:11 Intact and climbing 747 approaches 13,800 feet.

8:31:12 Initiating Event at 13,800 feet followed immediately by the commencement of the decapitation process.

8:31:43-8:31:47 Streak of light appears.

8:31:47 Explosion of Massive Fireball at 5500-7500 feet.

8:31:55-8:31:57 Splashdown of the Massive Fireball flames.
Source - The "Missile Witnesses" Myth.

Those who have believed for over six years that Flight 800 was a "shootdown" victim find that hard to believe but during all those years none of them has been able put together a sequential timeline of thir own that would support the "shootdown" allegations. Recently, Swordmaker, a "shootdown" conspiracy theorist, published a sequential timeline but it was in irreoncilable conflict with other known facts, not the least of which were the reports of the conspiracy theorists' own three Star "shootdown" witnesses. His sequential timeline can be reviewed in its entirety by clicking here.

[Asmodeus]

"I will have to research it for you but it was in the first report that Donaldson issued, I'm sure if you go to TWA800.com you will find references. Right now I'm late for an appointment. I'll get back to you in a day or so."

There are indications in the Donaldson brothers ARAP website that they interviewed 100+ witnesses but it doesn't appear that those witness reports have ever been made available to the public. Perhaps you can get Bob Donaldson to do that without further delay.

[willyone]

Speedboat? If I remember correctly a few years ago you were ranting about it being a Navy ship. So which was it? How is your buddy Rivero these days?

[willyone]

You are silly.

[JohnFiorentino]

ASMODEUS, here on FR and on the TWA800 forum has intimated that I have never posted a timeline re: Flight800. Below is the post I made on that subject on FR.

To: Asmodeus

And the point of all this is......There was no TIME for a "zoom-CLIMB"

TIMELINE (Outline) with Comments

IE 20:31:12

MF 20:31:36

Splashdown 20:31:54

But NO turn to the RIGHT----A turn to the LEFT or North as evidenced by the debris field, and sooting patterns on right wing.




757 posted on 08/25/2002 2:14 PM EDT by JohnFiorentino
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 754 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

Since it was directed to him, I find it unbelievable that he never read it, as he contends.

Another glaring example of the Asmodeus MO.

[willyone]

Bull shit. Some of you people are so stupid. CEC had nothing to do with 800. Get over it. The ship named by Salinger and others did not have CEC and was incapable of supporting CEC. Wrong baseline. The people pushing this lame theory do not even know the purpose of CEC. Give it a rest.

[willyone]

Good trick if you can do it since Donaldson is deceased. When so called eyewitnesses as far away as Long Island Sound claim to have seen a missile track I say BS.

[Demidog]

How is asking questions silly? The Navy was in fact performing AEGIS tests the night flight 800 went down.

[Demidog]

who you allege told you -

Wouldn't it be easy to verify the statement rather than accuse the poster of lying? The man was willing to allow his name to be used. Why don't you call him?

[timestax]

How is your buddy Rivero these days? 36 posted on 11/09/2002 4:08 PM PST by willyone

How is your buddy James Kallstrom??

[timestax]

bump for the truth!!

[Lulu]

I know for a fact that two common elements that are found in missiles were found on the piece of material taken from one of the seats in the airplane to be tested by an outside of govt source. I know personally the person who did the actual tests. When I asked what was found, the person told me what was found and they were natural elements found in a missile configuration. When the FBI report came out, those two elements were deliberately missing from their report. So the FBI and the govt lied us to big time about how that airplane was downed. I have known my friend for many many years. I know that person told me the truth. That person said that they were threatened by the FBI who tried to get all copies of the report that this person made. The person refused to give it to the FBI, except for a copy.
So our govt has known for these years that Flight 800 was downed by a missile and has hidden it from public view. That is not all that they have hidden. The American public had better wake up or we will all become more enslaved than we already are. If you want to help preserve our freedom, please go to the website of the American Foreign Policy Council and look at the info on the Asia Pacific Initiative that was funded thanks to Dana Rohrabacher and Kurt Weldon. Al Santoli is Director for that Initiative. He desperately needs money to feed, clothe, get meds and help 200 Burmese orphans at a Special Forces orphanage in Thailand. We need to raise $2000 by Dec. 1st for these darling kids. Go to www.afpc.org if you would like to help, or email me and I will send you info that Al has sent to me this week. ANy amount is gratefully appreciated. This orphanage is being run by a retired Special Forces Officer that is a friend of Al's, who by the way is a mich decorated Green Beret, and is a well known author on the Asian Pacific wars, Vietnam, etc. His latest is Unrestricted Warfare, written by two Chicom generals, about their plans to destroy our country.
God bless.

[Lulu]

My husband has his aeronautics advanced degree from Caltech along with 40 years of experience in the aerospace industry. His comment " I smell a rat".

[Bogie]

How about a "shoe bomb" made out of c3?

Light it, then stomp on the floor.

[ctnoell]

All I was saying was that the "shootdown theory" should not be so quickly dismissed. I feel it highly unlikely that a missile shot down TWA #800 (accidentally or intentionally), but I have my doubts about an internal explosion in the fuel tank of the Boeing 747. If this was the cause, then why didn't the FAA ground all of this model of 747. Correct me if I'm wrong, for I am no aviation expert, just an aviation enthusiast.

[JohnFiorentino]

Experimental and Theoretical Study of Zirconium Combustion for Incendiary Warhead Applications

Due to the high exothermic heat release, combustion of metals is very attractive for warheads designed for incendiary purposes. Zirconium, Magnesium, Titanium and similar pyrophoric metals have been widely used for incendiary applications. Therefore understanding the main combustion mechanisms of these metals are essential for design of incendiary warheads. In this study only Zirconium combustion will be investigated and following methodology will be used: 1) Detailed analysis of chemical kinetics of Zirconium-Oxygen combustion. 2) Numerical modeling of a single Zirconium particle combustion in oxygen rich environment. 3) Experimental combustion study of single Zirconium particle in a flat-flame burner. 4) Numerical modeling and experimental verification of two-phase combustion of Zirconium pellets.

Assistant Professor Abdullah Ulaþ

http://www.me.metu.edu.tr/tez/indexphd.htm

[timestax]

Oh, your ok then...those gubment boys/gubment appoligist get all upset when they hear or see the word =missile. They offer NO other alternative, they just drone on, like robots, "there was no missile, there was no missile, there was no missile..."eyewitneses were liars, eyewitneses were liars, eyewitneses were liars".......Of course it doesn't help their cause to find out that FBI man, Kames Kallstrom morphed a 25 knot speedboat heading away from the incident, into a "helicopter".