Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Western Victories Over Islamic Hordes
11/14/02 | Sparta

Posted on 11/14/2002 1:29:39 PM PST by Sparta

I am trying to compile a list of Islamic defeats since the beginning of that disgraceful religion. This is to try to prove that Muslim soldiers really are not that scary. The West has consistently kicked Islam's a$$ since its beginning. Please post examples of this religion's stellar military performance. (links to websites welcome)


TOPICS: Front Page News; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: islam; islamwar; terrorism; victory; west
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-129 next last

1 posted on 11/14/2002 1:29:39 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Sparta
The Battle of Tours 732.

The Battle of Lepanto 1571.

The Siege of Vienna 1683.

2 posted on 11/14/2002 1:31:26 PM PST by wideawake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Sparta
Well, obviously, the arabs (proto-Mahometans) had quite a string of victories up to 732, and in the East therafter, including the first Battle of Kosovo and the fall of Constantinople in 1453. And, thereafter, the Turks were successful in the Balkans and South central Europe, conquering Hungary, and culminating in the first Seige of Vienna in 1529.
4 posted on 11/14/2002 1:39:37 PM PST by CatoRenasci
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
Spain drove the last of the Moors (old name for moslems) out in 1492.
5 posted on 11/14/2002 1:42:38 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Blood of Tyrants
I've heard the Moors were the educated ones in Spain, was this true or more liberal anti-Catholic PC BS?
6 posted on 11/14/2002 1:44:30 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
Omdurman

http://www.omdurman.org

7 posted on 11/14/2002 1:44:37 PM PST by jdege
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jdege
Love the website, thanks.
8 posted on 11/14/2002 1:45:42 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
Omdurman
9 posted on 11/14/2002 1:49:57 PM PST by jdege
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
The West has consistently kicked Islam's a$$ since its beginning. Please post examples of this religion's stellar military performance.

------------------------------

If you knew enough of what you were taling about to make the first statement, you wouldn't need to make the second statement.

Islamic armies did rather well during their time. The Islamic empire disintegrated because of poor administration. The caliphates became independent countries, fractionating military power. What started out as the caliphates of Libya and Morroco and so forth became the independent countries now so named.

Of course now, in a nuclear age, the fielding of massed Islamic armies would be disastrous. What will occur is the type of warfare going on in Indonesia, the Philipines, and India.

10 posted on 11/14/2002 1:51:14 PM PST by RLK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
I don't know. But in 1492 literacy was rare and mostly confined to scolars and the clergy and the Gutenberg Bible was only 40 years old.
11 posted on 11/14/2002 1:52:15 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Sparta
First Crusade: Crusaders triumph over the Seljuk Turks and capture Jerusalem, AD 1099
13 posted on 11/14/2002 1:52:50 PM PST by Burdened White Man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: RLK
The only time Islamic forces were able to gain a foothold in the West was when we were divided. In the 700s, Europe was in the midst of the Dark Ages. Technology was advancing at a slow pace and much of Europe was in the stranglehold of Feudalism. When Constantinople fell in 1453, the Muslims were facing an isolated, dying empire. When the Muslims engaged the Spanish, Venetian, and Papal Fleet at Lepanto, they had wintered in French ports. Mohommad's(sp) early successes were against equally barbaric tribes in Arabia.
15 posted on 11/14/2002 1:57:33 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: BrowningBAR
This post is meant to illustrate that and also to tell everyone that the Muslims are not invinsible.
16 posted on 11/14/2002 1:59:07 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
The "West" vs. "Muslim soldiers"? You've got to be kidding. Do you really think in those terms? Let me ask you a simple question that perhaps someone so ignorant of history as you could answer: What do the battles of swords and bows from 1000 years ago have to do with the present day terrorism and nuclear weapons? What does the bravery of a soldier 1000 years ago have to do with the technological capability to shoot down rockets with lasers, to detect nuclear or chemical materials, or to send a remote-controlled drone on the other side of the planet?

Let's be serious here. The "West" and "Islam" are categories that only superficially apply to today's situation. Islam today bears almost no resemblance to the Islam of yesterday, anymore than today's "Christendom" does to yesterday's. The conflict we see today is not religious in nature but primarily geopolitical and secondarily ideological. Trying to look to the past for evidence of superiority is useless, especially since the modern West is clearly superior to modern Islam here and now.
17 posted on 11/14/2002 2:05:10 PM PST by billybudd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
It's just that: liberal anti-Catholic PC BS.

Islam was a very new religion when Muslims, mostly from Persia - a very sophisticated society, at the time - conquered Spain. Within a couple hundred years in any place it conquered, Islam snuffed out learning, something that happened throughout the Middle East. In the case of Spain, even the more learned and moderate "new" (formerly Middle Eastern pagan or Christian) Muslims who first arrived there were conquered by a more aggressive group of North African Muslims, who set about destroying what the first group had brought from Baghdad.

The Muslims were in Spain for almost 800 years, but their domination was secure only in certain parts of southern Spain - they were driven out of the North very rapidly, and pursued by the Spanish kings all the way to their stronghold in the South.

And the famous "three cultures" (Christian, Jewish and Muslim) that people gush about was the city of Toledo, in Christian territory, ruled over by a Spanish Christian King (Alfonso X).

The only reason there was any luster at all to Moorish Spain is that it was far enough away from some of the hotbeds of Islam to permit the more moderate rulers (the caliphates) to develop some of the things that had been strengths of pre-Islamic Middle Eastern culture (astronomy and medicine, for example), in many cases because of the earlier influence of Greece and Rome.
18 posted on 11/14/2002 2:05:37 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: billybudd
The conflict we see today is not religious in nature but primarily geopolitical and secondarily ideological.

Looks like someone has been buying into Al Qaeda propaganda and W's political correctness all at the same time!

20 posted on 11/14/2002 2:08:24 PM PST by Burdened White Man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
We would be speaking Arabic had not Suleiman the Magnificent been succeeded by Suleiman the Sot.


21 posted on 11/14/2002 2:08:24 PM PST by Wisconsin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Sparta
The absolutely best old time Christian Knights vs. Muslims smackdowns took place in Malta. It was considered the greatest siege in history until Stalingrad by most military historians. There is a great book on it who's name and author I forget right now. I'll check in again after I look it up.
23 posted on 11/14/2002 2:12:28 PM PST by MattinNJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: billybudd
Islam today bears almost no resemblance to the Islam of yesterday,

Wrong! There has been no Reformation or any equivalent in the Islamic. The reason why the West has won the majority of confrontations with the Muslims is because of our unique culture. We tolerate and discuss new ideas while Islamic cultures have traditionally been unaccepting of new ideas. We traditionally guarantee property ownership, asset protection, and due process of law so our soldiers can have something to fight for. The Turkish commander at Lepanto had his entire fortune aboard his galley when it went down because the Sultan could confiscate property at his whim.
24 posted on 11/14/2002 2:13:15 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: BrowningBAR
Everyone should take the Islamic threat VERY SERIOUSLY

----------------------------------

I do. A copy of the Rand McNally historical maps shows they once ruled half the known world. Conversion to Islam was made by force. There are now 1,000,000,000 of them. That tells me how many battles they lost.

The method of conquest has now become a guerila terrorist operation that is difficult to defend against with airpower etc. It's like swinging a two by four at a hive of angry bees. In this case there is no central hive to smash, but a motivating religion coordinate the attack.

Islam can be defeated. In order to do so it must first be discredited. They must be purged from this country so as not to have terrorists among us. In areas where they bring force elsewhere in the world, they must be obliterated.

26 posted on 11/14/2002 2:20:05 PM PST by RLK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
Islam today bears almost no resemblance to the Islam of yesterday

Although I totally disagree with the Billybudd's assertion that the current Jihad is not about ideology, his above statement is largely correct. Daniel Pipes in Militant Islam Comes To America takes great pains to show that modern Islamists are different and far more radical than Islam historically. For much of the middle ages Islam, Judaism, and Christianity coexisted in relative peace in the Arab world.

27 posted on 11/14/2002 2:21:05 PM PST by Burdened White Man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Burdened White Man
Please, enlighten me. The way I see it, the "West" vs. "Islam" conflict is a competition for regional and global dominance. The religion of Islam is only being used as ideological propaganda to support the Arabic rulers' ambitions. Unlike the religious wars in Europe in the 17th century, theological differences are not the driving factor of our present conflict. If they were, then we would be at war with all Muslims living within the US. Of course this is silly. We've gotten past the idea of conducting warfare based on religious beliefs. In case you haven't realized this, the reason we are currently engaged in a war with the Islamic countries is because they represent a direct threat to our well-being. We would respond, and have responded in the past, in the same way to non-Islamic countries (e.g., Nazi Germany). So now, please enlighten me as to why this conflict is religious in nature.
28 posted on 11/14/2002 2:22:27 PM PST by billybudd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
O.K I'm back. The book is "The Great Siege: Malta 1565" by Ernle Bradford. It is a phenomenal read. Real blood and guts, hold to the last man, smash the heathen scum book. Check out the reviews on Amazon.com.

Although they weren't Christians and Muslims at the time, the battle at Salamis and Thermopylae saved Western civilization in it's infancy. It was West vs. East and if the HUGELY outnumbered West had lost, no Greek philosophers, no Roman empire, etc...

29 posted on 11/14/2002 2:22:48 PM PST by MattinNJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Burdened White Man
I have no problem with Muslims per se, I just I have a problem with those who want to kill me because of my religion and those who deny religion is not a cause of the problem. If they are a religion of peace, they need to show examples of this and denounce the terrorists openly and honestly.
31 posted on 11/14/2002 2:24:24 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: MattinNJ
I feel King Leonidas is not thanked enough for his contributions and sacrifices to save the West.
32 posted on 11/14/2002 2:25:58 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
Just off the top of my head, and we're talking Arabs here, not just Islamicists:

Battle of Poitiers
U.S. Navy/Marines vs. Barbary Pirates

Alexander the Great kicked the crap out of the Arabs from Egypt to India, with stops in Ash-can-istan, Iran and Iraq.

Rome regularly defeated desert armies (Carthage, Egypt, Assyria, etc).








33 posted on 11/14/2002 2:26:57 PM PST by Wombat101
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: livius
they were driven out of the North very rapidly...

Aragon, Castile, and Aquataine, I believe and the remnants of the old Frankish kingdom of Germans.

35 posted on 11/14/2002 2:28:47 PM PST by RLK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
I also highly recommend "Carnage and Culture" by Victor Davis Hanson to all of those interested in just why Western soldiers are superior to everything they've ever come up against.
36 posted on 11/14/2002 2:29:21 PM PST by Wombat101
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Wombat101
We're talking all Islamofacists. Anyway, the Barbary Pirates were Islamofascists too.
37 posted on 11/14/2002 2:30:00 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: billybudd
So now, please enlighten me as to why this conflict is religious in nature.

It's a war of global dominance for sure, but it's ideologically driven by radical Islamic fundamentalism. No doubt there are many in it for purely politial reasons, I will grant you that point. But take fundamentalism out of the equation and what are you left with. As far as Islam in America goes, Let Steve Emerson's American Jihad and Daniel Pipe's Militant Islam Comes to America enlighten you further.

38 posted on 11/14/2002 2:30:14 PM PST by Burdened White Man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
BTTT
39 posted on 11/14/2002 2:31:00 PM PST by Fiddlstix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wombat101
I have at home and it is a good book!!!

Victor Davis Hansen BUMP!!!
40 posted on 11/14/2002 2:31:01 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: jdege
Churchill would be a nice guy to have on the world scene right now.
41 posted on 11/14/2002 2:31:07 PM PST by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
Thank you for the correction...I had forgotten...
42 posted on 11/14/2002 2:31:18 PM PST by Wombat101
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: BrowningBAR
Isn't it wonderful? Just when the Cold War was over, the Islamists attacked.
43 posted on 11/14/2002 2:31:42 PM PST by xJones
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: BrowningBAR
First of all, it's spelled "hordes". Yes, in the minds of many Arabs, there is still some sort of antagonism between Islam and the West. However, we don't think that way. We couldn't care less about Islam, the religion. We only want to defend ourselves from being attacked again. So, from our point of view, there is no sense in calling the war a religious war - we're not fighting about religious beliefs, we're fighting about self-preservation.
Now, about your contention that the West doesn't comprehend the terms of battle. The United States has the most powerful military in the world. The next most powerful are in Europe. If we were fighting wars in the same spirit they were fought 1000 years ago, we could wipe out all Islamic countries in the blink of an eye. But of course, we won't do that. That's my point - that the current conflict has nothing to do with past conflicts. The battles of the past have nothing to do with the terrorism of the present.
44 posted on 11/14/2002 2:32:21 PM PST by billybudd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: billybudd
Perhaps we do not live in the same solar system. We don't seem to have visited the same reality.
45 posted on 11/14/2002 2:32:51 PM PST by RLK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
I have no problem with Muslims per se, I just I have a problem with those who want to kill me because of my religion and those who deny religion is not a cause of the problem. If they are a religion of peace, they need to show examples of this and denounce the terrorists openly and honestly.

Couldn't agree with you more! The big problem I have with American Muslims is I've seen no evidence that they are not secretly rejoicing in their Mosques whenever a terrorist strikes. I don't trust them in our midst.

46 posted on 11/14/2002 2:35:00 PM PST by Burdened White Man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Burdened White Man
The big problem I have with American Muslims is I've seen no evidence that they are not secretly rejoicing in their Mosques whenever a terrorist strikes. I don't trust them in our midst.

Couldn't agree with you more.
47 posted on 11/14/2002 2:36:06 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Wombat101
Rome regularly defeated desert armies (Carthage, Egypt, Assyria, etc).

-----------------------------

That would be a major point except Mohammad wasn't born until 500 years later.

48 posted on 11/14/2002 2:36:28 PM PST by RLK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Sparta
Your absolutely right. I cannot believe that Thermopylae is not required reading by 9th grade. If those 300 Spartans (and 3,000 other assorted Greeks) hadn't held, there would not have been a Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Alexander, etc...The Romans never would have been able to build on what the Greeks accomplished and there would have been no Renaissance because there would have been no Western Civilization in the first place. Last but not least, no Romans, no USA. Allbecause Lenidas had the testicular fortitude to tell the Persian "Molon Labe".
49 posted on 11/14/2002 2:36:41 PM PST by MattinNJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: xJones
You assume the Cold War actually ended.IMHO it didn't - what we're seeing now is the aftermath of the Soviet Union's collapse. These new conflicts are things that WOULD have happened if the competing superpowers had allowed them. These guys were all clients of one side or the other, and we held them on a pretty short leash. Add to this fact that the real hotspots today were former Soviet clients that bought into and adapted Soviet ideology to their own circumstances. Now that Soviet ideology is as dead a Lenin himself, these people are pissed off. Since no one likes to take blame for making a bad decision, they're trying to pass the buck onto someone else -- the Westerners who made the RIGHT ideological decisions. Just an opinion, and probably poorly expressed, but there it is.
50 posted on 11/14/2002 2:37:43 PM PST by Wombat101
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-129 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson