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Peggy Noonen: "Them" [one group for whom liberals have no tolerance at all]
Wall Street Journal ^ | Nov 15, 2002 | Peggy Noonen

Posted on 11/15/2002 1:46:24 AM PST by The Raven

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:05:02 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

There's a lot to think about this week--the rise of Nancy Pelosi, the meaning of the Republican triumph--but my thoughts keep tugging toward a group of people who are abused, ostracized and facing a cold winter. It's not right what we do to them, and we should pay attention.


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: New York
KEYWORDS: liberals; michaeldobbs; pufflist; smoking; smokinggoonette
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1 posted on 11/15/2002 1:46:24 AM PST by The Raven
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To: The Raven
bump
2 posted on 11/15/2002 1:57:39 AM PST by JZoback
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To: The Raven
Actually, smokers should not be allowed to smoke in the office. And yes, my dainty organs are offended by the smell, especially when I'm sober and not in a club/bar.

I also detest coming home with smoke on my clothes, especially if I have not lit up at all.

I don't agree with the anti-smoking Nazis, but smokers really do waste a lot of time on their smoke breaks, and there's a reason that they were moved outside. By the way, they look like heroin junkies in a shooting gallery when they stand outside huddled together in front of office buildings.
3 posted on 11/15/2002 2:01:18 AM PST by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
I think you missed her point!!!!
4 posted on 11/15/2002 2:04:57 AM PST by The Raven
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To: Skywalk
Are you fat?
5 posted on 11/15/2002 2:06:19 AM PST by per loin
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To: per loin; All
Hold on folks. We may have a winner. It just may be that Skywalk is perfect in every way. We could name the award "Mac Davis Trophy."
6 posted on 11/15/2002 2:34:00 AM PST by billhilly
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To: The Raven
Thank you Peggy Noonen!








7 posted on 11/15/2002 2:40:47 AM PST by yoe
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To: Skywalk
Typical false accusation about smokers wasting time on their many smoking breaks! Most of the smokers I know (myself included) take mini breaks to smoke vs the block breaks everyone else takes.

The 15 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes in the afternoon turns out to be three 5 minute breaks in each half of the day. If lunch is 60 minutes...some smokers will take 30 minutes and add a few extra smoke breaks throughout the day.

Either way...I'll challenge anyone to prove smokers are less productive than non-smokers. And, furthermore...I challenge the liberal lie that smokers cause such a tremendous impact/burden on the health care system because they choose to engage in a practice that is still legal!

8 posted on 11/15/2002 2:42:19 AM PST by borisbob69
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To: per loin
5-10, 180 lbs, in relatively decent shape.
9 posted on 11/15/2002 2:48:13 AM PST by Skywalk
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To: The Raven
Did I?

What I was saying in my post is that there IS a place for smoking and smokers, but why when I'm trying to work should I have to deal with smoke in a closed space. Don't let the reasonable arguments you have in favor of smoker's rights turn your mind against EVERY criticism of smoking.

I was responding to parts of her article, especially the ones regarding the smokers huddled outside office buildings. If they should be allowed back inside, where should they be smoking? I certainly don't want to spend all day in a closed space surrounded by smoke. And if they make a smoker's lounge, isn't that making SPECIAL concessions to them?

My dad smoked, and I begged him when I was a child to stop. Know what he finally started to do? He'd go out on the enclosed porch and open a window or sit on the steps. I literally start choking up when someone is smoking and there's obvious strain in my voice. I don't like it unless my sense of smell is articially suppressed(ie drunk) and then its a matter of toleration.
10 posted on 11/15/2002 2:54:58 AM PST by Skywalk
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To: borisbob69
Less productive as a whole? perhaps not. But in my rather varied experience in a number of workplace environments, many smokers took more than their allotted breaks to go have a smoke. Then again, I actually put effort into my work, however trivial, and not everyone(non-smokers included) does that, so perhaps I'm noticing a trend that stretches beyond the smoke/non-smoke debate.
11 posted on 11/15/2002 2:57:16 AM PST by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
And if they make a smoker's lounge, isn't that making SPECIAL concessions to them?

I think it's more of a concession to the rest of of us.

12 posted on 11/15/2002 3:02:05 AM PST by Restorer
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To: Skywalk
Get a life! God... we have people in the office who do bad impressions for half of the work-day away from their cube and nobody says a thing.

The other half of the day they spend in the kitchen drinking coffee.

But when a smoker goes out to take a couple drags, he/she is frowned upon as a slacker.

13 posted on 11/15/2002 3:10:33 AM PST by johnny7
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To: Skywalk
And if they make a smoker's lounge, isn't that making SPECIAL concessions to them?

Perhaps a better word would be accomodation...after all we are addicts according to some on this forum.

14 posted on 11/15/2002 3:13:35 AM PST by borisbob69
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To: Skywalk
Oh give me a break here. Isn't it making "Special Consideration" to non-smokers to force those that do smoke into the outdoors, regardless of the weather, to engage in a legal activity? Her point was simple, allowing smoking in offices in a room designated for smoking and well ventilated solves the problems.

As for smokers wasting time, have you considered the very fact that smokers are forces to leave their desks, go outside their buildings to a outside "designated" smoking area is a biggest waste of time? Every smoker I work with takes a shorter lunch to make up for smoke breaks, and most of them work long hours to make up for the time they are forced outside.

I'm sorry you begged your father to smoke and he took it upon himself to leave his own home to appease your tender nostrils. That he listened to you was up to him, that does not give you the right to dictate the behavior of others in society. If you don't want to smell smoke while dining or drinking, go to restaurants/bars where the owners have designated the business as smoke free. The owners should have the right to cater to the clientèle they choose. Not the clientèle liberal whiners dictate are "politically correct" at this point and time.
15 posted on 11/15/2002 3:14:12 AM PST by Brytani
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To: The Raven
Their sense of life is essentially conservative: They know it is short

yeah and how will sucking smoke make it any longer ??


BUMP

16 posted on 11/15/2002 3:18:22 AM PST by tm22721
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To: tm22721
Your question shows you don't have a clue!!!
17 posted on 11/15/2002 3:20:28 AM PST by borisbob69
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To: Brytani
Excuse me

1)My father was right to make that concession. Why the hell should the furniture STINK to high heaven of cig smoke? I spent the night at my friend's house after a New Year's Eve celebration and the stench was everywhere(everyone but my friend smoked in that place) It made me sick, that's how oppressive the smell was. My dad was, fortunately, not a chain smoker, but he did the right thing.

2)You guys are looking at my criticism of an article as if its a blessing to burn smokers alive. IF a room can be set aside with good ventilation, I have no problem with that. However, I will dispute an article if I wish. That doesn't make me one of the health Nazis, nor do I want to ban smoking in all public areas. I'm just talking about smoking as a habit, and if it were to be allowed back into offices WITHOUT any set-aside space.

3)You ever kissed a smoker? Even with mints, it's still on the lips. Not tight. If you think it is, you're nuts. BUt if I say that it's nasty to kiss a smoker, does that make me an anti-smoking Nazi? Sheesh!

The reason I brought up a room being a "special concession" is because I noticed that some of you would be against accomodations for some other group, but when one of the "protected minority classes" of conservatives is involved it's all about compromise and accomodation.

Smoking is legal, that's true. So is sex, I'd like to engage in it at work. If others don't like the sounds, sights and smells coming from my cubicle than they can go stuff themselves!

Point being that there are limitations on certain activities in the work place. Unless of course you guys want me to blast my perfectly legal Scarface CD in the office.
18 posted on 11/15/2002 3:28:25 AM PST by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
..."protected minority classes" of conservatives is...

No such thing...libs would never permit this to exist!

19 posted on 11/15/2002 3:33:11 AM PST by borisbob69
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To: Skywalk
They should have a special room they can go to with proper ventilatiion, and the anti-smokers can keep their cabooses out of it. It is NOT right or FAIR that they be treated worse than condemed killers.

BTW I don't smoke, nor drink through FREEDOM of CHOICE. But my husband does. We do NOT patronize establishment that do not have smoking sections. You don't like the smell of smoke in our home..then DON'T come over, that would be your FREEDOM of CHOICE.

20 posted on 11/15/2002 3:34:04 AM PST by GailA
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