Freedom of Religion (Islam Counts)

Vanity | 11/17/02 | Persuasion

[Persuasion]

Lately I've been seeing a lot of anti-muslim posts on Free Republic. I think many of you who have posted ought to be ashamed and I think it ought to stop.

The total hatred and prejudice flowing out of you is overwhelming. You have reason to hate your attackers. You have reason to go to war with them. You have reason to seek justice. But you do not have any reason to act like biggoted Clymers toward people who have had nothing to do with those attacks. And there are many, many muslims in America that fit that billing. The president has recognized them. I support him whole-heartedly, as I do in the war effort. And those who are reasonable, do too.

What do you stand for? The people's rights or getting your own way?

[P-Marlowe]

If there was a religion out there that preached all the evil things that the Nazis preached, would you say that it would be religious bigotry to condemn those who follow such teachings? Would it be religious bigotry to call such a religion evil?

[jocon307]

You ask: What do you stand for?

I'm happy to tell you, I stand for the Judeo/Christian heritage of this country and Western Civilization in general. I will not stand for whining on behalf of Mohameddans who oppress their women, amputate the limbs of thieves and drug addicts, oppress all who disagree with them, found schools where the only lesson is to lay on the floor and memorize the Koran, mourn their "loss" of Spain hundreds of years ago, and kill Jews,Christians, Hindus and other "infidels" around the globe.

I used to be blissfully ignorant of Mohameddism, now I have it under strict survellience. When, and IF, I see something from that community that is truly peace loving and worthwhile, I'll reconsider my views. But for right now, Muslims are shunned by me. Sit in the corner, turn your face to the wall.

RADICAL ISLAM WILL BE CRUSHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[patriciaruth]

Good luck on keeping this vanity thread from degenerating into a forum for anger.

Very few men are wise enough to be able to govern their survival and territorial instincts in war. And war means winning is everything and every resource is needed and used.

Men especially use belittlement of the enemy as a tactic for keeping up their fighting edge adrenalin and throwing their enemies off-balance.

And I'm not sure it would be a good idea to breed for the kind of wisdom you are seeking, as such a race might well become extinct.

[dila813]

I do not hate Muslims, I hate their policy towards non-Muslims.

Commenting on the hate being directed towards non-muslims doesn't seem wrong to me. In fact, ignoring it would be ignoring our history.

It is not prejustice to point out that 60%+ of muslims still believe that it was the Jews that blew up the WTC.

[arielb]

I'm still waiting for the "vast majority" of peaceloving Muslim leaders to condemn Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hizballah, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and all the other islamic terrorist groups. I'm still waiting for them to condemn all the arab countries and Iran that are run by dictators. Where are they? How come I can only find one muslim religious leader in Italy who has come out against all suicide murderers?

[Audit_Jesse]

That's not wisdom, it's being willfully blind. The truth is right there, plain as day but she refuses to see it. It's so much easier to think happy thoughts than to face the cold hard facts.

Perhaps when maybe ore than a handful of Islamic leaders speak out AGAINST these attacks, and terrorism in general, I'll indeed rethink my position. The FACT however, is that they are NOT. They remain silent, and that silence speaks volumes.

[Post Toasties]

You probably would have accused Kemal Ataturk of 'total hatred' of Islam when he forbade preaching Islam in Arabic in Turkey and suppressed Islamic fundamentalism in that country, including 'religious' teachings that oppose universal human rights.

Yet Turkey has been thusly cured of the Islamic malaise that afflicts most other Muslim majority countries.

There is nothing wrong with being harshly critical of 'religious' texts which promote genocidal tactics against peoples of other beliefs. In fact, it would be wrong to ignore the pernicious effects of this non religious influence on Islam.

[freedom9]

Can't dispute that there are a lot of good people that follow Islam and for some the thought of taking up arms against unbelievers is abhorrent.

But within the tenants of Islam is embedded an ideology that that allows no compromise with or acceptance of other religious beliefs.

[DB]

Not all ideas and religions are equal.

If shows like 60 Minutes had guts they would secretly record what is "preached" in the average Masque in America. And then play it nation wide for all to see. Now that would be something…

Just because someone calls what they do a religion doesn't mean we have to turn our brains off and ignore its teachings and not call it what it is.

[Post Toasties]

What do you stand for? The people's rights or getting your own way?

What a meaningless question.

[Post Toasties]

Btw, I believe that any part of Islam that promotes discrimination or prevents criticism of discrimination against non-Muslims is not religion but a form of hate speech or implicit approval of hate crimes.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[GVnana]

The more I learn about Muslims, the less I like them...sorry to say. I support religious freedom. I believe people should be free to believe what they want to believe.

But I am not going to stand-by and ignore a group which advocates my slaughter. I will openly defy and renouce this. If more Muslims actively renouced this position, Americans would not be suffering this dilemma of religious tolerance.

The force of circumstances have given Muslims the obligation to show themselves as friend or foe. As a whole, they look like quislings.

[truth_seeker]

Islam is NOT just merely a religion. It is a world domination POLITICAL movement.

Not every German was an armed combatant, but they were our enemy, for that time and that war.

A very substantial fraction of muslims in the world, want the militant jihad to succeed, rendering you and I dead.

You and I can debate the SIZE of the fraction, but not the fact that it exists.

So where we probably part, is with a basic premise that first considers all of them basically peaceful, or to consider all of them as potentially a sword enemy.

I believe the latter to be the SAFER course, given facts recently on the ground. "Know the Enemy" according to the ancient Chinese rules of war.

[Diddle E. Squat]

Hang in there. Unfortunately sometimes it appears that the most vocal here are the idiots. But rest assured that there are plenty of us who understand the difference between terrorist jackels who hide behind a religion and the peaceful adherents of that religion who don't support terrorists. We just get tired or don't respond to every spew of vile on all these threads.

Thanks for your support of Bush and the war on terrorism, and for stating it. Stating so helps to refute the simplistic myths that develop, even though each time you'll usually get viciously attacked by some ignorants and cranks. I have absolutely no doubt that if it were 100 years ago, some of the posters here would be active participants in lynchings of Blacks. Its that disgusting mob mentality thing.

However there are many others here who are good people, but were disturbed by the lack of visible expressed outrage by Muslim leaders. When seeing much accusations responded to with silence or indifference, they assume a defensive and skeptical view of Muslims. So whatever you can do to show your true beliefs and disavowing of the terrorists, and that you are not alone among Muslims, will go a long way to changing their views.

I am a Christian, but feel for you regarding what you have to go through right now. I wish you luck, and am sorry that this is a difficult period for both you and us.

[Joe 6-pack]

"The president has recognized them. I support him whole-heartedly, as I do in the war effort."

The President has also stated, "...you are with us, or you are with them." In the days since 9/11/01 Ive seen exactly ONE (1) editorial by a moslem cleric openly denouncing the atrocities of that day, and celebrating the freedoms practitioners of islam were able to enjoy on American soil. One.

If islam has made one positive contribution to American society it has been the work of minister farrakhan in his introduction of the term, "gutter religion," to our vernacular. I'll wager a guess he dreamed it up while performing his ritual ablutions in the piss-trough of the local mosque.

[The Raven]

This threat just arrived (MSNBC)

On the heels of an FBI warning that al-Qaida may attempt a “spectacular” attack intended to kill many people and damage the U.S. economy, an Arab TV reporter known for his good contacts with Osama bin Laden’s terror organization said he had received a written statement from al-Qaida threatening more attacks in New York and Washington unless the United States stops supporting Israel and converts to Islam.

[Post Toasties]

When I hear an international chorus of Islamic voices publicly and consistently denouncing all fundamentalist violence perpetrated in the name of Islam and disassociating their beliefs from these tactics, that's when Islam will show signs of improving to the level of other religions.

[Post Toasties]

AFAIC, Muslims are morally obligated to express their outrage at messages such as these. Only members of a gutter religion wouldn't.