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Freedom of Religion (Islam Counts)
Vanity | 11/17/02 | Persuasion

Posted on 11/17/2002 12:46:37 AM PST by Persuasion

Lately I've been seeing a lot of anti-muslim posts on Free Republic. I think many of you who have posted ought to be ashamed and I think it ought to stop.

The total hatred and prejudice flowing out of you is overwhelming. You have reason to hate your attackers. You have reason to go to war with them. You have reason to seek justice. But you do not have any reason to act like biggoted Clymers toward people who have had nothing to do with those attacks. And there are many, many muslims in America that fit that billing. The president has recognized them. I support him whole-heartedly, as I do in the war effort. And those who are reasonable, do too.

What do you stand for? The people's rights or getting your own way?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: islam; prejudice; religion; religionofpeace
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To: yianni
"Islam is not a religion. It is an expansionist social philosophy - something like Amway but with a more aggressive marketing strategy."

Nailed it!

41 posted on 11/17/2002 2:13:14 AM PST by Spandau
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To: arielb
who is them? Ask them you said.
42 posted on 11/17/2002 2:18:02 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Post Toasties
What a meaningless question.

Oh pardon me.

From Dictionary.com:

what

Which thing or which particular one of many Which kind, character, or designation One of how much value or significance

do

To perform or execute To fulfill the requirements of To carry out; commit

you

Used to refer to the one or ones being addressed

stand for

To represent; symbolize.
To advocate or support
To put up with; tolerate

the1

Used before singular or plural nouns and noun phrases that
denote particular, specified persons or things

peo·ple Humans considered as a group or in indefinite numbers
A body of persons living in the same country under one
national government; a nationality.

right

Something that is due to a person or governmental body by
law, tradition, or nature.

or1

Used to indicate an alternative, usually only before the
last term of a series

get

To come into possession or use of; receive

your

The possessive form of you.
Used as a modifier before a noun
A person's; one's

own
Of or belonging to oneself or itself

way
n. 8. An individual or personal manner of behaving,
acting, or doing

43 posted on 11/17/2002 2:18:35 AM PST by Persuasion
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To: Persuasion
I'm an atheist. I haven't heard of any Christians calling for my death because I don't have the same beliefs as them. But there are plenty of Muslims who want to kill anyone who doesn't follow their twisted religion.

To those of you who think we should be tolerant of Islam no matter what its philosophy is, do you think we have an obligation to appreciate and defend the views of the KKK? What if they start calling themselves a religion, would you support them then? So, how is Islam any different?

Of course, there are many Muslims who condemn terrorism and love this country. But: they sure as heck haven't been very vocal, and they are not considered "true" followers of Islam since they don't want to kill us for not being like them. That's what their book says.

I absolutely support religious freedom, but I draw the line when a "religion" calls for the death of anyone who doesn't follow it, and has essentially declared war against Western civilization.
44 posted on 11/17/2002 2:20:29 AM PST by mn12
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To: Persuasion
I think the question is invalid, because I don't believe the two are exclusive, in most cases.
45 posted on 11/17/2002 2:20:51 AM PST by Post Toasties
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To: MatthewViti
Herman Melville's Classic, "Moby Dick."
The word is "Weirdo."
These are things people used to be taught in high school.

46 posted on 11/17/2002 2:24:09 AM PST by Persuasion
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To: Persuasion
I wonder if you could tell us how many muslims believe in the First Amendment principle that government shall not establish any one religion and that all shall have the right to freely worship in their own religion?
47 posted on 11/17/2002 2:24:37 AM PST by AmericanVictory
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To: mn12
I see a lot of irony in those calling for unlimited 'tolerance' of an extremely intolerant, in the most malignant way, religion.

If they hope to positively influence said religion by handing out gold stars, they're doomed to great disappointment.

48 posted on 11/17/2002 2:25:18 AM PST by Post Toasties
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To: mn12
My post wasn't about unconditional acceptance of any religion. As I said. You've got a right to demand justice
and a right to hate your enemies. But calling for the
extermination of every muslim is intolerable to me.
And there's been quite a bit of it going on here.

And some HAVE been very vocal. They're just not the type
that attract the media.


49 posted on 11/17/2002 2:27:51 AM PST by Persuasion
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To: AmericanVictory
"Most Americans just want to be peaceful and raise their familes." -- A muslim professor of mine who is perfectly content to teach alongside christians.

I wonder if you could tell me how calling for the extermination of all muslims fits the billing. And
if it doesn't, why should they follow what you refuse
to? How is your kind any better than theirs?

50 posted on 11/17/2002 2:31:40 AM PST by Persuasion
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Thanks for your comments I'm glad to see some fellow supporters about! :)
51 posted on 11/17/2002 2:36:08 AM PST by Persuasion
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To: Joe 6-pack
Are you one of those who is still somehow in doubt that we are war?

Nope. I support the war.

But the president has made it clear that our enemies do not include peaceful muslims. And I support him in that. Just as I can support a war against Iraq but not condone killing off the British, I can support a war against terrorists but not condone killing off muslims who've got nothing to do with the terror. Clear?

52 posted on 11/17/2002 2:42:21 AM PST by Persuasion
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To: Persuasion
I agree that extermination of every Muslim is a bit much, and I would not support, for instance, internment of Muslims who are American citizens.

However, I do think we have every right to keep Muslims from immigrating to America, and we can assume that non-citizen Muslims are enemies. According to the Quran, in order for someone to be a "true" Muslim, they have to follow all the tenets of the faith. And that includes the commandment that non-Muslims are to be converted or killed. It's a shame that we have to assume followers of a given religion are enemies of ours, but we didn't make up the rules..

Our government has a duty to defend Americans and our way of life first and foremost. Determining which Muslims are enemies and which are friendly because they do not strictly adhere to the religion (MINOs?) is not a priority when American lives are at stake.
53 posted on 11/17/2002 2:42:49 AM PST by mn12
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To: Persuasion
Do you just call people names and make baseless accusations out of bigotry or are you just very stupid? Neither I nor any of my associates has ever called for the extermination which you suggest. On the other hand the failure to recognize that there are enormous numbers of muslims who believe in murder and bigotry of the worst sort is a kind of denial not worthy of any reasonable individual. The Wahhabi and Islamist cults and all their offshoots make the Thuggees that once plagued Hinduism and the Boxers of China look like nice folks. To make false accusations against those who point this out is to make yourself look insipid and foolish as well as contemptous of the culture of American constitutional republicanism, under which we are free to point out and discuss the truth of these matters, unlike the situation in very nearly every muslim dominated nation. So take your false cries of bigotry and stuff them.
54 posted on 11/17/2002 2:50:05 AM PST by AmericanVictory
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To: Post Toasties
As for Muslems, forget the malignant "Religious" part of the equation and focus on the acts and methods of this group, wherever they are. All I see is a dangerous enemy aligned with the stupidity of the Leftist and weak apologist in the World, bolstered by the ridiculous UN.
They are our enemy,it is us or them and it is now the time to pick your side.
55 posted on 11/17/2002 2:51:38 AM PST by iopscusa
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To: Persuasion
Islam is Murder.
56 posted on 11/17/2002 2:54:01 AM PST by Godel
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To: Persuasion
From: Arsalan Tariq Iftikhar, Midwest Communications Director, Council on American-Islamic Relations, St. Louis, Mo.

We are no less American than we were on Sept. 10. I was born in the United States. I took my first steps on this soil. I have been a ball boy for the Chicago Bulls. I have been to four U2 concerts. I am a second-year law student specializing in international human rights. I and my 7 million Muslim brothers and sisters are contributing members of American society.

Two members of President Bush's Cabinet are of Arab descent. It was a Muslim who was the architect for the Sears Tower. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and in the world. We are doctors, lawyers, engineers, mechanics, teachers, and store owners.

We are your neighbors.

(But we are NOT your friends . . . because that would violate Koran 5:51 (and others), and we will NOT violate our Holy Koran, whether you like it or not! )

Arsalan Tariq Iftikhar, Midwest Communications Director, Council on American-Islamic Relations, St. Louis, Mo. -Eric

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." - Koran 5:51

"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." - Koran 9.5

"Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: 'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'" - Koran 22:19,22,23

And you were saying ?????????


57 posted on 11/17/2002 2:55:18 AM PST by GeekDejure
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To: Persuasion
islam is a death cult and the religion of satan!
58 posted on 11/17/2002 2:57:11 AM PST by seeker41
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To: Persuasion
You may want to study the etymology of separation of 'Church and State'. Read some letters between Lord Acton and Queen Elizabeth on the topic.

Recent (past 40yrs) interpretations omit the original meaning and favor atheist and agnostic interpretations.

The original intent acknowledged that any system of government focused on allowing honest and honorable men to work together unfettered. In so doing, they recognized two classes of laws which ensued, those laws provided by God and those made by Man.

The Separation of Church and State focused on respecting the efforts of any 'good man' who sought to obey both sets of laws. The laws made by Man mustn't prevent the obedient from also obeying the Laws of God. Accordingly, a policy of separation of those powers was established to respect the right of every honest and honorable man to remain obedient and observant of both legal institutions.

During the formation of these policies, the only class of men commonly acknowledged to comprise the obedient were those who sought to remain obedient to God on His terms. Many early documents simply refer to Christians and heathens. This will specifically isolate Muslims from that category since they have no perfect sacrifice for the atonement of sin nor seek it.

For this reason, there is no inconsistency in remaining devout to God by His will and His plan. It might be noted though, that all men have an opportunity to come to Him prior to their first death, so by no means does this stance encourage a 'Crusade' by men to interfere with the relationship between others and God. But it also doesn't prevent those who are in fellowship with Him from defending ourselves and bring the gospel to others.

59 posted on 11/17/2002 3:11:00 AM PST by Cvengr
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Comment #60 Removed by Moderator


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