No atheists, no homosexuals, no merit for the Boy Scouts

The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | November 18, 2002 | Larry Atkins

[RonF]

I have sent the author the following E-Mail:

Just a couple of comments on your latest column.

"On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say that they recognize a higher power, not necessarily religious. Lambert had disclosed his atheism to Scout leaders last year in his Eagle Scout application, but he still received the award."

Mr. Lambert, having disclosed to his Eagle Board of Review that he was an atheist and believed in no higher power (and, according to reports did so verbally face-to-face, not in his application), should never have received his Eagle award. This BOR made a mistake.

"The current dispute arose last month, when Lambert got into an argument with a Scout leader at a Scout training seminar as to whether the Scouts should expel atheists."

"Meanwhile, another good Scout leader is lost. Darrell Lambert, with an exemplary record of scouting and community service, reportedly doesn't smoke, drink alcohol, or take drugs. He has been a quartermaster and three-time senior patrol leader, an assistant scoutmaster, and a field leader in training as part of the Search and Rescue Program."

In my opinion, your column reads as though Mr. Lambert was tossed out of the BSA as a youth. He wasn't. He was tossed out because he professed atheism in public, at a training session for adult leaders that he was attending as a trainee. Mr. Lambert had turned 18, and had registered, as per BSA rules, as an adult; specifically, an Assistant Scoutmaster. Now, you can research this yourself if you like, by going over to your local BSA Council office and picking up an Adult Application. But, if you'd like, you can take my word for it when I tell you that part of the Adult Application for the BSA is a "Declaration of Religious Principle", and that the application states that you must subscribe to the declaration to register as a leader. Suffice it to say that no honest atheist could do so. By doing so, Mr. Lambert fails "A Scout is Trustworthy", the first of the 12 points of the Scout Law. I would not consider this the sign of a good leader. Deliberate liars shouldn't be youth leaders.

"Under current Boy Scout rules, a crack-smoking, al-Qaeda-supporting, wife-beating member of the Ku Klux Klan would be fine as a scoutmaster, but Lambert isn't."

Under current Boy Scout rules, felons cannot be Scout leaders. Also, users of illegal drugs cannot be Scout leaders (and the Adult Application specifically asks if you use drugs). Not to mention that the other two criteria you set violate numerous provisions of the Scout Law and Scout Oath. So the hypothetical individual you reference above could not, in fact, be a Scout leader. For you to say different is wrong. I have to ask; did you write the above statement out of ignorance or malice? If the former, you owe the BSA an apology, and I ask that before you write any further on the BSA, you have the responsibility to do some research and know what you're talking about. If the latter, then you are dishonorable and are merely a propogandist, not a journalist.

[TrappedInLiberalHell]

Well, I support the BSA in setting their rules and standing by them. But it is a shame that a kid who worked so hard is getting called on his lack of faith NOW. If they knew about it early on, they ought to have made their decision and stuck with it. Maybe that's what he is really upset about. It's almost a form of what they used to call Indian-giving.

[jejones]

If Lambert had any honor, he would have courteously walked away from the scouts the moment he realized he could no longer support their core values. He has no honor.

This atheist agrees with you; Lambert gives atheists a bad name.

[Clint N. Suhks]

Under current Boy Scout rules, a crack-smoking, al-Qaeda-supporting, wife-beating member of the Ku Klux Klan would be fine as a scoutmaster, but Lambert isn't.

This is the most common tactic of the pro-perversion crowd, because the by-laws don’t specifically exclude murderers they too must be welcome in the Scouts, a point Justice Scalia made in Dale v. BSA. The truth is if National or Council got wind of “avowed” or “closeted” crack smokers, Al-Quaeda or wife beaters unrepentant of their behaviors they too would be expelled. The problem is, those things are kept secret and therefor some pseudo-intellectuals demagogue that the BSA accepts crack smokers, Al-Quaeda, wife beaters and of course homosexuals. Isn’t moral relativism fun?

[Musket]

This ticks me off to no end. I grew up fatherless and the Boy Scouts provided me with life lessons that I would've got nowhere else. The fact that these FREAKS want to RUIN the Scouts makes me so mad I could spit! They would be ruining countless lives in the process.

[T'wit]

All liberals know how to do is take the money or the benefit without meeting the responsibility. Don't expect them ever to uphold honor or honesty. This boy took advantage of the program but still refused to keep his oath. He does not deserve to be a member of an honorable organization.

[2banana]

Good letter! But I doubt if facts will make any difference

[Nephi]

Right on, brother!

[WaveThatFlag]

Just what, in God's name, does homosexuality have to do with Darrell Lambert's atheism? It really annoys me when the gay crowd try to coat-tail their message onto other stuggles. Like a few years ago in NYC, when they tried to equate the so-called "Stonewall Riots" with historical civil rights struggles. A bunch of creepy transvestites start hitting cops with their purses, and all of a sudden they're heroic passive resistors? Please.

You know what the Boy Scouts ought to do? They should make a public statement saying "Mr. Labert is right. We were wrong to exclude a person simply because he is an atheist." They should give him has merit badge and go about their business. Message sent.

[Texas_Jarhead]

"Good letter! But I doubt if facts will make any difference"

I agree. Good letter. I also agree with 2naner, facts and logic bounce off liberals like bullets off Superman.

[Congressman Billybob]

Note that the author never mentioned the Boy Scouts' win in their Supreme Court case. The Court ruled that it is the First Amendment right of the Scouts to include whomever they want in their ranks as leaders, and as mambers. In short, the author (who is an attorney and therefore must know about the case), is demanding that the Scouts give up THEIR constitutional rights because he says so.

I would never dream of suggesting that this writer should be banned from HIS constitutional rights because he is stupid. I will defend to the death his right to be stupid. And every step of the way I will point out that he is dumb as a bag of hammers and shifty as a snake in bacon grease.

I speak as an Eagle Scout with two palms, Order of the Arrow, and Junior Assistant Scoutmaster, who has the greatest respect for the program of Scouting, exactly as it has always been conducted. A Scout is: "Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, thifty, obedient, cheerful, brave, clean and reverent."

I point out in passing that it's pretty hard for a lawyer, or a politician, to live up to that list of 12 characteristics. Maybe the writer would be more content with: "Dishonest, disloyal, harmful, hostile, unfriendly, discourteous, unkind, profligate, disobedient, morose, cowardly, dirty, and profane." He could form his own organization; I even have a name for it: "The Democrat Scouts of America."

Congressman Billybob

Click for "Let's Hear It for Fraud -- And REAL Soon"

Click for "to Restore Trust in America"

[arielb]

these guys should leave the Boy Scouts alone and form their own group. Nobody is forcing anyone to join the boy scouts

[TheBattman]

Exclusion of atheists and homosexuals has denied many kids and teenagers access to scouting programs. It also has led to the loss of many volunteers who would be terrific mentors, role models, and leaders of young people.

Yep, those are definately the sort of roll models I would pick for my kids < / sarcasm off >

[Alberta's Child]

Exclusion of atheists and homosexuals has denied many kids and teenagers access to scouting programs. It also has led to the loss of many volunteers who would be terrific mentors, role models, and leaders of young people.

This is one of the more damaging aspects of left-wing ideology. What makes this statement particularly idiotic is that it sees the "end-products" of a private organization (access to scouting programs, access to volunteers who serve as mentors, role models, etc.) and automatically assumes that there is a vital public interest at stake that requires an adversarial response.

Also, these people will never accept the notion that it is entirely possible that the "exclusion of atheists and homosexuals" is precisely what makes scouting such an effective means of providing leadership, mentoring, etc. to young people.

[The Electrician]

This author has a blind spot so big that you could drive an eighteen-wheeler through it. His basic premise is that for the Boy Scouts to discriminate in admitting scouts or their leaders based on their core beliefs is somehow wrong, even though the US Supreme Court has ruled that it is proper. Note, though, that he says nothing about the fact that the Boy Scouts do not admit girls as scouts. Elsewhere, at this very minute, the lefties are screaming with rage against a famous male-only golf club for not admitting women. Why aren't these lefties also shouting about how girls should be admitted to the Boy Scouts (and boys to the girl scouts)? Because that would expose just how assinine their argument about excluding gays and atheists is.

[joebuck]

"Businesses and organizations that fund BSA, such as the United Way (which has an anti-discrimination policy) should stop contributing funds to the BSA as long as it keeps current discriminatory policies intact. Several United Way chapters across the country have done so already."

What point are the libs trying to make when they openly advocate discriminating against the boy scouts because they feel the boy scouts discriminate against gays and atheists? The lack of logic in this "discriminate against the discriminators" argument is self evident. What astounds is the disconnect in the liberals who fail to see the contradiction here. Sometimes the BS gets so deep you need wings to stay above it.

[VRWC_minion]

Under current Boy Scout rules, a crack-smoking, al-Qaeda-supporting, wife-beating member of the Ku Klux Klan would be fine as a scoutmaster

Not exactly. With this last comment he should lose all credibility, but he won't.

[CapedCrusader]

Lambert had disclosed his atheism to Scout leaders last year in his Eagle Scout application, but he still received the award.

Bad on the scouts.

Meanwhile, this battle will continue on a local level

Where it belongs.

Meanwhile, another good Scout leader is lost.

While this may be true, the BSA has every right to set their own membership criteria.

[VRWC_minion]

Boy Scout Oath or Promise

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

---

Note that the Boy Scout Oath has traditionally been considered to have three promises.  Those three promises are delineated by the semicolons in the Oath, which divide it into three clauses.  The three promises of the Scout Oath are, therefore:

• Duty to God and country,
• Duty to other people, and
• Duty to self

DUTY TO GOD AND COUNTRY: Your FAMILY and religious leaders teach you to know and serve God. By following these teachings, you do your duty to God.

Men and women of the past worked to make America great, and many gave their lives for their country. By being a good family member and a good citizen, by working for your country's good and obeying its laws, you do your duty to your country. Obeying the Scout Law means living by its 12 points.

DUTY TO OTHER PEOPLE: Many people need help. A cheery smile and a helping hand make life easier for others. By doing a Good Turn daily and helping when you're neded, you prove yourself a Scout and do your part to make this a better world.

DUTY TO SELF: Keeping yourself physically strong means taking care of your body. Eat the right foods and build your strength. Staying mentally awake means learn all you can, be curious, and ask questions. Being morally straight means to live your life with honesty, to be clean in your speech and actions, and to be a person of strong character.