Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Judge setences rancher for harassing Mexican migrant
Thenewsmexico.com ^ | 11/18/2002 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 11/19/2002 6:57:56 AM PST by Carbonsteel

United States District Court Judge James M. Simmonds on Sunday found Coy T. Brown guilty of assaulting Mexican immigrant Juan Mauricio Gonzalez with a fire arm and sentenced him to five years in prison, Notimex reported.

After a two-year investigation spearheaded by the Foreign Relations Secretariat, Brown was found guilty of firing a pistol on April 10, 2000, at Gonzalez, a native of Tasquillo, Hidalgo.

In addition to his prison sentence, Brown, a Texas rancher, was denied bail and assessed a 10,000-dollar fine, the SRE said.

The SRE applauded the judge's decision and said it would intensify its efforts to fight for Mexican immigrant rights abroad.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: learntoshoot
Surely their is more to this story.

I mean being denied bail, a $10,000 fine and five years in the joint for what amounts to nothing more than brandishing a firearm seems like overkill to me.

I remember reading something about this story a while back, and if I remember right, this rancher was on his own property when all this happend.

But then I forgot that illegals now have more rights then U.S. citizens do in this country.

1 posted on 11/19/2002 6:57:56 AM PST by Carbonsteel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Carbonsteel
Oh, obscene, outrageous! If ever a case for pardon or clemency from a Republican governor...
2 posted on 11/19/2002 7:01:12 AM PST by Mamzelle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Carbonsteel
It almost seems like there are those in power whose intention it is to destroy the U.S.
And any notion of national sovereignty....
& crap like this outta do it..
3 posted on 11/19/2002 7:04:13 AM PST by joesnuffy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Carbonsteel
Brown was found guilty of firing a pistol

He wasn't just brandishing. Anyone have more info on this case?

4 posted on 11/19/2002 7:04:37 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Carbonsteel
United States District Court Judge James M. Simmonds on Sunday found Coy T. Brown guilty of assaulting Mexican immigrant Juan Mauricio Gonzalez with a fire arm

This doesn't seem right - this should be in the Texas courts, not the federal courts.

5 posted on 11/19/2002 7:06:21 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
I found this on a Google Search:

Blood on the Border

Southwest vigilantes hunt Mexican immigrants

Revolutionary Worker #1058, June 11, 2000

Racist vigilantes in southern Arizona and Texas have declared open season on immigrants.

On May 12, two Arizona ranchers on horseback, armed with high power hunting rifles, shot and critically wounded 20-year-old Miguel Angel Palofox, an undocumented Mexican worker who was trying to cross the border near Sasabe, Arizona. Four other men who were with Miguel remain missing and could be dead.

Miguel told the Sasabe, Sonora authorities that his group was suddenly ambushed by two vigilantes. Miguel was able to get a good look at the shooters before a high impact bullet tore through his neck and exited through his ear. He said he remembers seeing his companions fall after also being shot. But so far, no bodies have been recovered.

When Miguel regained consciousness, he was on the ground bleeding profusely. He was able to drag himself to the border crossing station at Sasabe where he was given medical attention and taken to a hospital at Caborca, Sonora. At this point, it is still unclear if the four men with Miguel survived the attack.

Deadly Agenda

On May 13, a group of Arizona vigilante ranchers were joined by white supremacist groups from California for a meeting at Sierra Vista, Arizona. The explicit purpose of the gathering was to discuss a plan of action to deal with what the ranchers call "a Mexican invasion" by undocumented workers.

White supremacist Glenn Spencer led a contingent of California anti-Mexican racists to the meeting. Spencer, who leads Voices of Citizens Together and a militia called American Patrol, has a long history of racist activity aimed at Mexican immigrants. Through the Internet, radio and other propaganda, Spencer warns against "Mexicans trying to takeover the United States." Vigilante rancher Roger Barnett also attended the meeting, joined by the Arizona 9th District of the Imperial Wizards of the Ku Klux Klan.

According to the Mexican newspaper La Reforma, a proposal surfaced at this meeting to place anti-personnel land mines at strategic places along the border in order to deter illegal immigration by Mexicans. The meeting was heavily policed by the Sierra Vista Police Department and by the Arizona Rangers.

Political and economic domination of Mexico by the U.S. has forced millions of poor people in Mexico to leave their families to search for jobs in the United States. And the U.S. has continually escalated its militarization of the border, hunting down and brutalizing immigrants.

Campaigns like "Operation Gatekeeper" in California and similar "border protection" programs in Texas have forced many immigrants to try and cross the border in Arizona. In response the U.S. Border Patrol has recently been authorized to bring an additional 180 officers to Arizona. And now these official government attacks against immigrants on the border are being aided by the mobilization of racist vigilantes.

Hunting Humans

In 1984 James Huberty targeted Mexicans and massacred 22 people at a McDonald's restaurant at the border in San Ysidro, California. Huberty was an unemployed security guard who blamed Mexicans for his inability to get a job. On the day of the massacre, Huberty's wife said he put on military-style camouflage clothes, picked up his assault weapon, and said "Society's had their chance. I'm going hunting. Hunting humans."

In this same racist, vigilante spirit, ranchers in Arizona recently sent out an invitation to white supremacist groups around the country to come on down to the border to "hunt" for undocumented Mexican workers.

Ranchers in this area are facing a long and devastating drought and many are being whipped up around the lie that Mexican immigrants are to blame for their economic problems.

Now many U.S. citizens of Mexican descent living in Douglas, Arizona are afraid to come out of their homes in fear that they will be mistaken for undocumented Mexican immigrants and attacked by racist vigilantes.

Roger Barnett has been a major figure in the anti-immigrant movement. In June of 1999 Barnett appeared before a congressional subcommittee on immigration to call for a National Guard presence along the border. More recently, he stated in an interview that he was ready to "kill Mexicans" if it became necessary.

Barnett, who is a former deputy sheriff turned cattleman, has a 22,000 acre ranch at Sierra Vista, Arizona--next to the Mexican border. For Barnett and dozens of other ranchers, the Sunday sport of choice has been to stalk undocumented immigrants, round them up with trained dogs, then--at gunpoint-- hand them over to the U.S. Border Patrol.

"Humans. That's the greatest prey there is on earth," said Roger Barnett. He recently posed for a network news team that filmed him and his brothers capturing nine undocumented immigrants out beyond their barbed wire fence. Barnett boasts that his record "haul" is 86 in one morning. And he claims that he and his group arrested over 174 Mexicans in just one weekend and thousands over a two-year period.

Out of 25 recent attacks on immigrants, Roger Barnett and his brother Don have been involved in at least 14. Like Roger, Don Barnett lets his cold, racist heart speak freely. He told one reporter, "The bottom line is if some Mexican is squatting behind a bush on private property, he gets what's coming to him."

These vigilante ranchers recently sent out a flyer inviting militia types and other racists from throughout the U.S. to come down to Cochise County to "hunt" for Mexican immigrants on their ranches. They offered free board on their land to any "tourist" wanting to have "some fun in the sun."

The flyer proclaims: "This vacation is for the winter visitor that wants to help an American Rancher keep his land protected while enjoying the great southwestern desert at the same time. Just the great outdoors and good `ole western individualism spirit of private property." The flier goes on to suggest the proper equipment for the trip: RVs, infra-red scopes and trip-wire flare launchers to "locate and expose the invaders."

Blood on the Border

The Mexican government recently filed an emergency "complaint" with the U.S. Department of Justice through its embassy in Washington D.C., and the Mexican Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Rosario Green, has announced that the government of Mexico will file suit in U.S. Federal Court against the Arizona vigilantes who shot Miguel Angel Palofox Aguerrin.

In a press conference held in Mexico City, Secretary Green stated that since January 24, 1999 through May 15, 2000 there have been 32 incidents of violence against Mexican undocumented immigrants by U.S. citizens. Twenty-seven of the incidents occurred in Arizona. Ten happened in 1999--and the rest have occurred this year. Of the 27 cases in Arizona the vigilante ranchers Roger Barnett and his brother Don Barnett were involved in 15. Another rancher by the name of Andreas Muller was involved in 3 cases.

The 32 cases involved a total of 451 immigrants. Seven of these immigrants have been physically injured and two have been murdered.

In the past five years, nearly 500 Mexican immigrants, unprepared for the stark conditions of the desert, have died from exposure trying to cross the border. And for those immigrants who manage to survive the dangerous desert conditions--they must face the threat of armed vigilantes.

A report on KOLD TV station in Tucson, Arizona, showed a ranch hand detaining five men, apparently undocumented immigrants. The ranch worker was shown pushing one of the men from a seated position onto his stomach and the men were held at gunpoint until the U.S. Border Patrol arrived.

In the area around Brackettville, in Texas, at least five immigrants have been shot--two killed--in a little over a year in the borderlands around Del Rio and Eagle Pass.

As ranching has become less profitable in this area, many old-time ranchers have started dividing up their land into small parcels and selling it to hunters and retirees. Many of these new land owners have been involved in attacks on immigrants.

According to a District Attorney near Del Rio, virtually all of the shootings in the area have occurred when the person was some distance away and walking in the opposite direction. In other words, the victims have been shot, cold-blooded, in the back.

The most recent incidents happened within a month of each other. On May 13, 23-year-old Eusebio de Haro Espinosa, from the central state of Guanajuato made the fatal mistake of stopping near Rancho Leona, in Texas, to ask for water and food at the end of a 20-mile hike along the border near Piedras Niegras in Mexico. The temperature on May 14 was over 100 degrees. By 4 p.m., Eusebio and his companion, 25-year-old Javier Sanchez, were sweltering and between them had nothing left to drink. They stopped at the home of 74-year-old Sam Blackwood to ask for water. Blackwood told the two immigrants to get off his land and called the Border Patrol.

Javier Sanchez said the old rancher started pursuing them and firing his gun. Eusebio was hit in the groin. Instead of immediately phoning for medical assistance, the rancher called the police and, when a patrol car from the county prison arrived 40 minutes later, Eusebio had already bled to death. Blackwood was charged with murder, arraigned and released after posting $10,000 bail.

Eusebio's father, Paisano de Haro Bueno, makes fireworks in the village of San Felipe, Guanajuato and has 13 other children. When he got the news about the murder of his son, he said, "They killed my son like a dog. He was determined to find work so he could bring money back home."

The murder of Eusebio de Haro came less than a month after an incident just to the north in neighboring Edwards County, where 56-year-old Coy Brown shot a Mexican immigrant, Mauricio Gonzalez.

According to the District Attorney, Gonzalez was with two other men when they encountered Mr. Brown. Brown held the men at gunpoint, marched them off his property, and then shot Gonzalez in the back. He then walked the men, including the wounded Gonzalez, at gunpoint for two miles to a neighboring rancher's house.

Gonzalez was hit in the buttocks and might have been injured much more seriously if the bullet had not hit a can of beans that was in his backpack.

These are only the most recent incidents in the area where immigrants have been shot at by ranchers. Patrick Glenn Bordelon has been charged in two separate shootings of Mexican immigrants near a riverside community just north of Del Rio called Vega Verde. And in January of 1999, Wilbur Honeycutt, a local cop participating in a federal Drug Enforcement Administration program, shot a Mexican teenager in the back along the Rio Grande.

Cipriano Ramirez saved up his money for years in Temoac village in central Mexico, earning $4 a day mostly selling sweets. Finally he got together $1,600 needed to pay a professional smuggler (a "coyote") to take him over the U.S. border.

Along with a dozen other migrants, Cipriano repeatedly tried to cross the Arizona border. On his third try, on March 23, he was shot and ended up in a hospital in Hermosillo, Mexico. The bullet entered his right buttock, nicked his tailbone, and perforated his large intestine. The doctors told him it would take six months to heal. And now Mr. Ramirez, who is only 32, worries that he may never walk or work again.

"There were 12 of us and we walked all night long," said Mr Ramirez. "But we did not know there were ranchers hunting illegals. Some time after daybreak, I felt a sudden pain in my belly and began to writhe on the ground. The rancher, Mr. Major, said it was all a mistake. He was firing his gun at a dog walking three feet away from me."

*****

Some politicians are now trying to use these vigilante incidents to bolster their arguments for further militarization of the border. U.S. Rep. Silvestre Reyes, an El Paso Democrat and former Border Patrol chief, argues that the recent shootings by vigilantes in Texas and Arizona are caused by the "frustrations of local residents in areas that are underserved by the Border Patrol." And he goes on to complain that the Immigration and Naturalization Service has not been able to comply with a directive by Congress to hire 1,000 new agents each year.

La Resistencia points out:

"The actions of the vigilantes are right in line with the U.S. government murderous policy of border militarization. Operation Gatekeeper in California alone has claimed over 500 immigrant lives since October, 1994. The U.S./Mexican border has been turned into a war zone where the Border Patrol hunts down unarmed immigrants. Recent anti-immigrant laws as well as politicians' calls for protecting America's `endangered borders' have emboldened these vigilantes.

"Now these racist Rambo types are adding their deadly force to the combined resources of the Border Patrol, U.S. military, and various other police agencies which are carrying out the official U.S. government policy of `deterrence.' They are following the lead of the U.S. Border Patrol which has itself shown by a rash of recent shootings in the San Diego/Tijuana area that immigrants crossing the border can be shot at and murdered as part of discouraging unauthorized border crossing."


This article is posted in English and Spanish on Revolutionary Worker Online
rwor.org
Write: Box 3486, Merchandise Mart, Chicago, IL 60654
Phone: 773-227-4066 Fax: 773-227-4497
(The RW Online does not currently communicate via email.)


6 posted on 11/19/2002 7:06:37 AM PST by mbynack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Carbonsteel
In addition to his prison sentence, Brown, a Texas rancher, was denied bail

Why would bail be an issue at sentencing? Something about this article doesn't smell right.

7 posted on 11/19/2002 7:07:31 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mbynack
What a hit piece.
8 posted on 11/19/2002 7:09:34 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Carbonsteel
From the website for the San Antonio Express:

Explanation in immigrant shooting quickly raised doubts

By John MacCormack
Express-News Staff Writer

Web Posted : 11/14/2002 1:55 PM

ROCKSPRINGS — Law enforcement officers doubted Coy Brown’s version of the shooting of an unarmed, undocumented Mexican immigrant within hours of the event back in 2000, according to trial testimony.

“I told Mr. Brown he wasn’t telling the truth, and I asked him to tell me the truth,” Edwards County Sheriff Don Letsinger said in testimony today.

“He didn’t say much. He asked me how I knew,” said Letsinger of Brown, who had claimed he shot in self-defense after finding two Mexican men breaking into a neighbor’s cabin.

Brown, 58, is on trial on charges of aggravated assault in the shooting of Juan Mauricio Gonzalez, who was wounded in the buttocks on April 10, 2000, on a remote Edwards County road.

In his testimony Wednesday, Gonzalez said that Brown shot him without provocation after they met on a back road. Gonzalez said he and a companion were on their way to Brownwood when they encountered Brown, who was bearing a pistol.

Gonzalez, 44, of Hidalgo, Mexico, was spared serious injury when the bullet struck a can of beans he was carrying in his backpack and deflected downward into his buttocks.

In a written statement Brown made to police that night, he said he and his wife, Jessica, had followed tracks from a caliche road to a hunting cabin where he was met by two Mexican men rushing out the door.

Brown said the older of the two Mexican men had a water jug in his hand and made oral threats and gestures.

“He had the bottle gripped in his hand. He took another step or two towards us. I took this to be an aggressive movement,” Brown told police.

“I felt he intended to do bodily harm to me or my wife,” he said. “I pulled my 9 mm semi-automatic pistol and I fired 3-4 rounds. I fired three shots in the air and one in the ground.”

Brown said he then marched the two men back to the caliche road and down to a neighbor’s ranch, where he reported the break-in. He then left before authorities arrived.

But Letsinger said that when he took Brown back to the cabin later that night he could find no sign of a break-in, nor could he find any human footprints over a stretch of soft earth that Brown said he and the Mexican men had traversed.

“He said it must have been the weather,” Letsinger said of Brown’s explanation for the absent footprints. But Letsinger said other footprints and tire tracks made that day had not been erased.

In summing up the case, Letsinger testified, “I can find no reason why Coy Brown shot at either one of those men.

“I carry a 9mm (pistol). I know what a 9mm can do,” the sheriff testified under cross-examination. “It’s a deadly thing to shoot a 9mm at a person for any reason.”

Brown, who faces up to 20 years in prison if convicted, is expected to testify in his own behalf.

10 posted on 11/19/2002 7:13:04 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mbynack
Got anything less biased?
11 posted on 11/19/2002 7:16:24 AM PST by FroedrickVonFreepenstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: FroedrickVonFreepenstein
See post #10
12 posted on 11/19/2002 7:17:29 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: FroedrickVonFreepenstein
That's all I really found on Google. I won't vouch for the accuracy of it, but according to the story Brown shot the guy in the back. That would explain the harsh sentence.

I read an article last year about the problems that the ranchers were having down there. They said that ten years ago the illegals used to just hide in the out-buildings, but now they tend to steal anything not nailed down and a lot of them are carrying drugs and weapons.

14 posted on 11/19/2002 7:25:59 AM PST by mbynack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Yea....I figured their was more to it. This whole sory still smells.
15 posted on 11/19/2002 7:26:30 AM PST by Carbonsteel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Carbonsteel
Although I feel sorry for the Mexicans, I feel more sorry for the ranchers and the rest of us. Too bad that blood will have to be shed to do something about this problem. It must be pretty bad for the Americans down there for them to take such actions.
16 posted on 11/19/2002 7:33:20 AM PST by HoundsTooth_BP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: dalereed
Don't worry, it's the thought that counts.

We're headed the way of Zimbabwe, when we won't resist.
17 posted on 11/19/2002 7:33:26 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: BrowningBAR
Hmmmmmm....from the article:

"On May 13, a group of Arizona vigilante ranchers were joined by white supremacist groups from California for a meeting at Sierra Vista, Arizona. The explicit purpose of the gathering was to discuss a plan of action to deal with what the ranchers call "a Mexican invasion" by undocumented workers. White supremacist Glenn Spencer led a contingent of California anti-Mexican racists to the meeting. Spencer, who leads Voices of Citizens Together and a militia called American Patrol, has a long history of racist activity aimed at Mexican immigrants. Through the Internet, radio and other propaganda, Spencer warns against "Mexicans trying to takeover the United States." Vigilante rancher Roger Barnett also attended the meeting, joined by the Arizona 9th District of the Imperial Wizards of the Ku Klux Klan."

18 posted on 11/19/2002 7:34:24 AM PST by goodnesswins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: goodnesswins
What do you expect from a website called Revolutionary Worker? - there is a lot of B.S. in just that one paragraph.
20 posted on 11/19/2002 7:37:52 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Carbonsteel
What this rancher did was wrong but the net effect of the judge's actions is to hang the big old "WELCOME ILLEGAL ALIENS" sign at the border. But what does a gubbermint poohbah care?
21 posted on 11/19/2002 7:37:55 AM PST by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goodnesswins
Talk about pouring salt into an open wound.

Those are the kind of groups that allow leftist to label all of us right-wing extremists. The problems down south on the border are bad and these clowns are just going to make matters worse.
22 posted on 11/19/2002 7:38:43 AM PST by Carbonsteel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Carbonsteel
Those are the kind of groups that allow leftist to label all of us right-wing extremists

Actually, the leftists are the ones doing the labelling here - I bought into some of the allegations against Glenn Spencer, but after some research I don't think he's racist - but a favored method of the left is to brand anyone they disagree with a racist in an attempt to stifle debate.

23 posted on 11/19/2002 7:40:48 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
What this rancher did was wrong but the net effect of the judge's actions

What ist the judge supposed to do here? Slap the guy on the wrist for shooting someone in the back? I support the notion of private citizens stopping illegals on private land until the INS comes. But you just can't shoot a guy who isn't threatening you - whether he's an illegal alien or a citizen.

24 posted on 11/19/2002 7:42:33 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: trebb
I am sure many illegals will be buried now, but as much as I respect all human life, word needs to get to these people that if they try to come to the USA, the risks to life and limb will not be worth it. If all that happens to you when you are caught is you are sent back, you don't have much to lose.
25 posted on 11/19/2002 7:45:03 AM PST by HoundsTooth_BP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
What ist the judge supposed to do here? Slap the guy on the wrist for shooting someone in the back?

The sentence should have been less. The same for the crime if committed in Mexico. This decision is designed, custom-made, to intimidate all other ranchers. So the net effect is to encourage more Mexican border jumping, property desecration and crime. The Mexican counsel down there is happy today.

Like I said, the judge can care less. He's got a FedGubberMint job with all the bennies while other Americans contend with a lousy economy and an immigration invasion.

26 posted on 11/19/2002 7:52:17 AM PST by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
The sentence should have been less

The guy was facing up to twenty years, so the judge didn't throw the book at him. Shooting someone in the back is a pretty serious crime, no matter who they are. I don't think this will have a chilling effect at all for anyone who tries to patrol private land in a lawful manner.

27 posted on 11/19/2002 7:54:34 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: All
I have always heard that Mexican people would cut your throat if given half a chance. I am sure there are alot of good Mexican people. But, I would be scared to death if I had illegals crossing my farm and getting into my out buildings. Just imagine how hard it would be to sleep at night down there. These people don't have policemen running up and down their streets every 15 minutes. It is dark out there, and I am sure some of the cabins may not have electricity.
28 posted on 11/19/2002 7:55:28 AM PST by HoundsTooth_BP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: HoundsTooth_BP
I have always heard that Mexican people would cut your throat if given half a chance.

Generally, when someone is shot in the back, they are not coming towards you. My guess would be (and it's just a guess) is that the illegal who was shot was trying to run away from Brown and Brown shot him, and then made up a story to try and cover up what had happened.

29 posted on 11/19/2002 8:01:19 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Shooting someone in the back is a pretty serious crime, no matter who they are.

Wrong and cowardly but the Mexican invasion is 200 times worse and 200 times more cowardly. And weren't these Mexicans breaking into a cabin? Now they get to sue this rancher who was sick and tired of this criminal invasion and flipped

I don't think this will have a chilling effect at all for anyone who tries to patrol private land in a lawful manner.

Common sense says it will.
If US troops are put on the border and authorized to use deadly force against drug smugglers this will be fine by me. I hope the border gets mined too. Big "Peligroso" signs can be put up and let the chips fall where they may.

30 posted on 11/19/2002 8:03:01 AM PST by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
I bought into some of the allegations against Glenn Spencer, but after some research I don't think he's racist - but a favored method of the left is to brand anyone they disagree with a racist in an attempt to stifle debate.

You deserve respect your objectivity, DB.

31 posted on 11/19/2002 8:04:07 AM PST by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Once more, with feeling: you deserve respect FOR your HONESTY & objectivity.
32 posted on 11/19/2002 8:05:33 AM PST by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
And weren't these Mexicans breaking into a cabin?

From the article I posted in reply #10:

Brown said he then marched the two men back to the caliche road and down to a neighbor’s ranch, where he reported the break-in. He then left before authorities arrived.

But Letsinger said that when he took Brown back to the cabin later that night he could find no sign of a break-in, nor could he find any human footprints over a stretch of soft earth that Brown said he and the Mexican men had traversed.

“He said it must have been the weather,” Letsinger said of Brown’s explanation for the absent footprints. But Letsinger said other footprints and tire tracks made that day had not been erased.

In summing up the case, Letsinger testified, “I can find no reason why Coy Brown shot at either one of those men.

I would guess that the illegal tried to run and Brown shot him.

33 posted on 11/19/2002 8:07:18 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: HoundsTooth_BP
It must be pretty bad for the Americans down there for them to take such actions.

It's worse than just bad, it's downright tragic. Our law enforcement agents down there are in danger, the American citizens who live close to the border are in danger, and the people who are illegally crossing the border are in danger. And it's all because the federal government is willfully derelict in its duty.

34 posted on 11/19/2002 8:13:49 AM PST by jpl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
"Shooting someone in the back is a pretty serious crime, no matter who they are."

Actually, here in Florida, you are perfectly within your rights to shoot someone in the back in some cases. A couple of examples given in a recent CCW class I took were an armed burglar you encounter in your home, and a would-be kidnapper running away from you, but going for your kid. Of course, these scenarios don't have anything in common with the shooting on the border, but a shot in the back is sometimes called for and legally justified.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

35 posted on 11/19/2002 8:17:45 AM PST by wku man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
(Generally, when someone is shot in the back, they are not coming towards you. My guess would be (and it's just a guess) is that the illegal who was shot was trying to run away from Brown and Brown shot him, and then made up a story to try and cover up what had happened.)

And I agree that you should not shoot someone in the back. But, we don't have all the details of the story. I do not believe everything I read or see. I am sure there is alot more to the story. I believe this whole story of this illegal invasion is more an act of war by these people. These illegals that come here are destroying our way of life and I am sick of it. Our freedoms are being destroyed and ILLEGALS are doing it.


36 posted on 11/19/2002 8:18:51 AM PST by HoundsTooth_BP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: jpl
It's worse than just bad, it's downright tragic.

They need to do something. They basically need to build a high wall, create a 300 yard cleared area on both sides of it and patrol it with dogs, and have random police checks a couple of miles down every road from urban areas. And they need to deal honestly with the labor issues. If we need a certain level of Mexican immigrant labor, then come up with a way for the people in question to be here legally, and it will be better for them and better for citizens. And, once they institute such a program, the feds need to crack down HARD on anyone still hiring illegal labor. Get rid of the demand, and the supply will dwindle.

And finally, change the law saying that anyone born in the U.S. is automatically a citizen - that should only apply to children of folks here legally with a green card who are planning to become citizens themselves. And eliminate most welfare and health benefits for illegals.

38 posted on 11/19/2002 8:19:28 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
I would guess that the illegal tried to run and Brown shot him.

Probably. They always have running as an exit strategy when their overloaded vans flip on the highways. There're just gone into the brush never to be found by the law.
39 posted on 11/19/2002 8:21:29 AM PST by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: mbynack
This is such a simple concept.......really. If the illegal trespasser woke up that morning and decided NOT to cross an international border, he wouldn't have been shot.

This is not to say that the rancher was correct in his judgement regarding this situation. But lets look at the COMPLETE chain of events. Who, untimately is responsible for this?

The fault lies squarely with the illegal trespasser. It can be interpeted no other way.

Homeland security begins at the borders. GWB should save his breath and stop BSing the American people. His efforts would be better spent on securing the borders between legal border crossings, until then "homeland security" is mere window dressing.
40 posted on 11/19/2002 8:23:24 AM PST by taxed2death
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: skeeter
Thanks, skeeter. I know that a lot of disruptors to this debate claim they only want the truth to come out (and then start laying the B.S. thick and steamin'), but I genuinely wanted to figure out what was going on - I still don't have an answer why the website regarding Tancredo's group pulled the link to AP (or if there is even any veracity to that claim), but none of the other stuff really held up to closer scrutiny.
41 posted on 11/19/2002 8:25:01 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: taxed2death
I agree with you completely. Until the American people get it, we are going to give up more and more of our freedoms, security, jobs, etc.
42 posted on 11/19/2002 8:26:28 AM PST by HoundsTooth_BP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: goodnesswins
Please supply a link for this!
43 posted on 11/19/2002 12:57:07 PM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

I see the link is from a pro-illegal immigration site.
44 posted on 11/19/2002 12:59:06 PM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
I think Tancredo was pressured by Washington or his party or some Colorado groups to remove the link.

I know he was chastised by the switchboards and/or for the deluge of emails that came in when he first put up his Immigration Reform Caucus site. He was told to remove links to stop the flood of responses he was receiving.

45 posted on 11/19/2002 1:05:11 PM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: madfly
He was told to remove links to stop the flood of responses he was receiving.

He still has VDARE up and other groups, so that's kind of interesting. I think I might try to get an answer again.

46 posted on 11/19/2002 1:08:59 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: madfly
Here's a list of the groups he has links to:

Center for Immigration Studies
Sierrans for U.S. Population Stabilization (SUSPS)
Numbers USA
C.C.I.R.
Project USA
V.D.A.R.E.
Federation for American Immigration Reform
Population Environment Balance
U.S.B.C.
Negative Population Growth
Carrying Capacity Network
Center for Comparative Immigration Studies
Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform
Desert Invasion - U.S.

That's a rather interesting smorgasbord of interest groups.

47 posted on 11/19/2002 1:12:38 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
The sentence should have been less. The same for the crime if committed in Mexico.

Ridiculous Quote of the Day

48 posted on 11/19/2002 9:51:53 PM PST by PRND21
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: PRND21
You're a certified fool so who cares what you have to say about immigration.
49 posted on 11/19/2002 10:03:53 PM PST by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson