Skip to comments.Caption this - Al Gore with the ladies
Posted on 11/19/2002 7:22:47 PM PST by spycatcher
Yes, it's the oldest trick in the political book, the family photo. They're all staged, Republican and Democrat alike. I don't think that excuses false incest accusations.
He got his wish, now we're free to interpret the appropriateness of the images and the sexual overtones in whatever they're feeding us. Doesn't it seem weird that Karenna is closely involved in things like him having a perfectly arranged package on the cover of Rolling Stone and having Tipper talking about Al sleeping in the nude? Karenna is constantly trying to Alpha-male sexualize him (for the voters of course).
I still don't see the problem. A young woman knows what other young women like. It's politics.
The point is that his daughter's near obsessive involvement in her father's sexuality and virility are very public.
This is the first I've heard of it. Even so, if that's what her role is in his campaign, then that's what she does. It shouldn't mean anything else.
That was a major political miscalculation if you don't want people joking about it and noticing the very thing they're used to seeing presented by the Gore family -- even if that particular photo was designed to be innocent.
I think the photo is innocent and I know many families who have pictures like these.
Happygal: I saw your posts on the other thread. I'm glad someone agrees with me. I thought I was the Lone Ranger there for a while. Falsely implying incest crosses a line and is wrong.
I feel more sorry for Richard Gere after SNL mentioned him last week having a happy anniversary with his gerbil.
Oh please. You know exactly what you were trying to imply.
People are just pointing out the "loving closeness" with daughter #2 and the close involvement with his sexuality by daughter #1 is a bit strange. And it just so happens his boss was Bill "oral sex isn't even sex" Clinton. No need to be shocked..."shocked!" at the snickers. It's called parody, you can relax now.
I am relaxed. I'm used to this kind of stuff. You guys get off on this silly stuff and Chelsea bashing. It doesn't play well to the maases though, let me tell ya. It looks especially mean-spirited and cold to pick on young women regarding anything other than their politics. I just think there should be opposing views on this stuff so that people know that not all conservatives are so retentive. My original post was a five word post so I didn't exactly freak out over this. It's gone on and on from there.
I feel more sorry for Richard Gere after SNL mentioned him last week having a happy anniversary with his gerbil.
There's a big difference between a gerbil and a daughter.
My first post was a simple five-word post. Spycatcher keeps pinging me. Am I supposed to ignore him?
Please do. Or at least lighten up Francis. Maybe you should have just ignored the whole thread. Caption threads are goofy humor. Nobody but you takes it seriously. I tried being reasonable with you and your objections but you kept at it and won't get a clue.
Bill Clinton doesn't employ his daughter to help shape his sexuality. Al Gore does. Have you ever seen a Smigel cartoon on SNL? Probably not since you're still alive. Political figures who use their willing family to try to shape their public sexuality are fair game for ridicule. If you can't deal with that, too bad. His daughter is old enough to not pose with her hair draped on daddy's crotch if she doesn't want to be a political pawn/joke. Maybe she should take a hint from Ozzy Osbournes oldest daughter and get out of the public eye.
Lighten up? How should I lighten up? I think it's wrong to falsely imply incest and that's the simple statement I've said in all my posts after the first one. The only way to lighten up from that is to say it's not wrong. Not gonna happen. Your posts keep changing, mine stay the same. You've went from blaming imagery to blaming Clinton to blaming the daughters to who knows what now. You seem to be searching for justification. I made a simple five word statement and you replied with a long reply. I'm responding. How should I lighten up? Should I ignore you?
Maybe you should have just ignored the whole thread.
I didn't ignore the thread because I think it's important to show that all conservatives are not as cold-natured as the replies on this thread seem to show. Fathers hug daughters all the time, there's nothing wrong with anything in the pictures on this thread. FR is becoming representative of the rank and file conservative. If I see something I disagree with, I'll say something to prove that there are other views. If you don't want replies send e-mail.
Caption threads are goofy humor. Nobody but you takes it seriously. I tried being reasonable with you and your objections but you kept at it and won't get a clue.
But the people here weren't captioning, they were saying it was sick for a daughter to relax with her father. I thought that was an over-reaction and said so. I believe a lot of families have pictures similar to these.
Bill Clinton doesn't employ his daughter to help shape his sexuality. Al Gore does.
So. She's a young woman, she knows what young women like. A lot of daughters want their fathers to look good, don't over-react to that. It doesn't mean anything. "Shaping his sexuality" is a little overboard way to put it anyway.
Have you ever seen a Smigel cartoon on SNL?
LOL That's Least Common Denominator entertainment. I don't pay a lot of attention to prime-time trash TV. I guess I'm not hip to modern crudeness. SNL doesn't have any talent so they do the tried and true...shock entertainment. If you have no talent you say naughty words and put down Christians and people will still watch. LCD. The posters on this thread weren't trying to be entertaining, they honestly thought a daughter should not relax with her father.
Probably not since you're still alive. Political figures who use their willing family to try to shape their public sexuality are fair game for ridicule.
Fair game for false inuendo and gossip? OK. I didn't get that memo.
If you can't deal with that, too bad.
I can deal with it. I have every day. Crudeness is becoming more and more hip and we're surrounded by it. No one cares about honesty anymore. It's OK to just throw out baseless accusations. I'm making you question your rightness in throwing out your false inuendo though because of the way your excuses wandered. You tried three or four different ones. :^)
His daughter is old enough to not pose with her hair draped on daddy's crotch if she doesn't want to be a political pawn/joke.
Oh, now. You're being silly.
You're over-reactingMaybe she should take a hint from Ozzy Osbournes oldest daughter and get out of the public eye.
I think most of the public sees this for what it is. A father-daughter relationship not unlike millions of others in this country. It amazes me that your so offended by a daughter resting up against her father but the crudeness of your false inuendo doesn't bother you at all.
.... Thankfully, Gore is now cleanshaven.
"I was surprised at apparently how very few people were neutral," he said.
"I was surprised at the amount of attention it got. That was just astounding," Tipper said. "But men don't have that many ways to change -- or as many ways as women do. Know what I mean?"
"No, I don't," Al replied.
"Clothing choices, for instance," Tipper explained. "I can wear pants. I can wear a skirt. I can wear a dress."
"I could, too."
"Yeah -- you and J. Edgar Hoover," Tipper needled. At which both groaned: "Oooooooh!"
More on this psychofest here
He's already started with the plastic surgery.
Thought you might enjoy that relatively innocent joke about Jackson and his children (hint: The joke isn't really about the kids, they're just foils for the target) Of course in Gore's case, the additional irony is that his aren't little children and they still play along in the politics of crafting Gore's sexual image for the public. And yes, contrary to your naivite, that does make them fair game for humor. IT'S A JOKE. GET A GRIP. NO ONE IS REPORTING THE GORES FOR SEX CRIMES. In fact I don't know anyone who even sees Gore as a sexual person in the least (until seeing this suggestive photo maybe), and that's why they have been trying so hard to show he is! Instead he comes across as creepy and weird like Michael Jackson.
You obviously failed to grasp the reason people didn't caption the photo -- because they were all so creeped out by his mature daughter's head in his lap. 90% realize the innuendo comes from the staged photo and they responded to it viscerally. 10% like yourself have a naive and incomplete understanding of the Gore campaign PR image crafting. It's not that the photo couldn't be innocent if it was a candid shot of a non-political family. It's that Gore's image has been carefully managed to make him look sexual to compensate for his eunuch image.
That's funny. But if the Michael Jackson joke was about incest, it wouldn't be funny in my opinion. There's a line that shouldn't be crossed.
Of course in Gore's case, the additional irony is that his aren't little children and they still play along in the politics of crafting Gore's sexual image for the public. And yes, contrary to your naivite, that does make them fair game for humor.
I disagree. You can't accept the fact that I disagree with this simple statement. In your opinion incest jokes are funny, in my opinion, they're not. Can't you agree to disagree? I simply made my post to prove there are some conservatives that won't go to that low point for a joke or to show coldness. In your opinion daughters shouldn't relax with their fathers, in my opinion, I don't see anything wrong with any picture on this thread. I'm proving to any lurkers that not all of us are so puritan that we can't look at something as innocent as the pictures on this thread and go apeshit. Simple as that. I'm not trying to change your mind. You have a standard for political discourse, mine is different and I wanted to show that to those that may be offended by this crudeness that not all of us are like this.
IT'S A JOKE. GET A GRIP. NO ONE IS REPORTING THE GORES FOR SEX CRIMES.
Look again at the posts on this thread. Most of the people here didn't take it as a joke, they actually thought it was wrong for a daughter to relax with her father as in the first photo. I think that's silly.
In fact I don't know anyone who even sees Gore as a sexual person in the least (until seeing this suggestive photo maybe), and that's why they have been trying so hard to show he is! Instead he comes across as creepy and weird like Michael Jackson.
To you maybe. I don't see anything creepy about that picture.
You obviously failed to grasp the reason people didn't caption the photo -- because they were all so creeped out by his mature daughter's head in his lap.
And I want to prove that not all of us are so cold-natured. She's barely on the side anyway.
90% realize the innuendo comes from the staged photo and they responded to it viscerally. 10% like yourself have a naive and incomplete understanding of the Gore campaign PR image crafting.
Not naive at all. Every political family photo is staged, get used to it. How many political family photos do you see that aren't? You're naive to think that only some politician photos are staged. They all are.
It's not that the photo couldn't be innocent if it was a candid shot of a non-political family. It's that Gore's image has been carefully managed to make him look sexual to compensate for his eunuch image.
This is why conservatives lost in '98. Everyone was so worried about Monica when there was a treason charge that could've been pursued, or mabe even a Ron Brown crash investigation. When you puritans say that a daughter is not allowed tro relax with her father and talk sex this sex that, you're offending half the people in the country. Not smart in politics. Save the extreme moralism for the church pew.
I don't watch Leno, nor do I know who Jolie is.
You've completly missed the point, the humor, the irony, and used several words incorrectly, including "puritan." If anyone on this thread is a Puritan, too afraid to deal with the sexual overtones deliberately created by the Gore family, it's you.
I'm not afraid of anything. I spoke out against crudeness, that doesn't mean I'm afraid of the discussion about crudeness. I speak out against high taxes all the time, that doesn't mean I'm afraid of discussions about high taxes.
And as you project your puritanism on others, we're not allowed to joke about it either. Next, you'll be telling everyone to "get thee to a nunnery." Time for you to grow up and lighten up.
I didn't tell anyone to shut up. I told you twice when I first began to discuss this with you that I was not here to disrupt your thread, but to offer a different point of view for any lurkers who may have been offended by the crudeness and cold-natured posts that are on this thread. You've tried and tried to convince me that incest jokes are OK but I'm not buying it, nor do I have any delusions about changing your standard of political discourse. In your world these things are fine, in mine they're overboard. In your world the types of photos that are on this thread are overboard, in mine they're not. We both have different standards. You've let yours be known, I've let mine be known. You can't accept that?
By the way I don't have a low opinion of you because of this thread, I just don't think you realize how offensive these threads are to a lot of normal people. Independents decide elections and they don't understand these kinds of attacks on normal behavior.
Most of us don't understand how anyone could think there's anything "normal" about a young woman in her 20s putting her head on her father's lap. We're not joking about incest, we're commenting on what we perceive as strange behavior.
You really need to broaden you understanding about people and cultural norms, and not boil it all down to some bizarre oxymoron in you mind where people are being "crude puritans." I got your point from your first post and gave you the benefit of the doubt, but you're still missing the political point completely and have no sense of humor whatsoever. The joke is about the publicity photo in the context of the Gore family campaign to make him a sex symbol. It's not about actual incest, it's about how they like to play up daddy's sexiness and leave us guessing.
That's exactly my point and the reason why I thought it was important to offer a different point of view. To you and most of the posters on this thread you can't imagine a daughter relaxing with her father in way as shown in the picture. I'm afraid you're contributing to the stereotypes the media likes to lay on us that we're cold, distant, and robotic. A lot of fathers and daughters have this kind of closeness and there's nothing wrong with it. There's another thread with this picture on it where this same argument broke out. Here's a comment by a freeper responding to spycatcher (I hope she doesn't mind me repeating it):
WHAT? WHAT? WHat is the cultural difference?
Please educate this innocent Irish girl.
Is it WRONG all of a sudden for a teenage girl to lay her head on her dad's lap and watch TV?
Is that perverse?
If I'm watching telly at home, I often stretch out along the couch and put my head in my daddy's lap. And he may even stroke my hair.
IS that perverse all of a sudden??????
Are Republicans all of a sudden making something normal, perverse?
I'm sickened by the previous post in respect of AG's daughter. And the person who made it, is a sick mutha-*** in my mind. Humour is one thing. And this isn't.
I really believe you're offending a lot of normal people and are providing fodder for those that like to stereotype us.
And you think this picture is a big part of that?
We all cringe. And when people joke about something that makes them cringe, it's not simply for laughs, or to be cold, it's to relieve the discomfort. That's part of being human.
Yes, you can joke all you want and make people cringe all you want, it's how you make your point. But I'm not like that, I prefer a less crude approach. I think it's important to show that we're not all alike. You have your ways, I have mine.
You really need to broaden you understanding about people and cultural norms, and not boil it all down to some bizarre oxymoron in you mind where people are being "crude puritans."
LOL No, I'm doing just fine. I want to be me, not you or anyone else. To each his own. I don't place a lot of importance in following the herd in the crudeness department.
I got your point from your first post and gave you the benefit of the doubt, but you're still missing the political point completely and have no sense of humor whatsoever.
I have a sense of humor, it just doesn't extend to areas that hurt people and incest jokes are very offensive and hurtful.
The joke is about the publicity photo in the context of the Gore family campaign to make him a sex symbol. It's not about actual incest, it's about how they like to play up daddy's sexiness and leave us guessing.
That's too much of a leap for me to accept to the point of false inuendo and taking a chance at being wrong and a false accusor. To me it just looks like a family photo. The Kennedys were masters at this kind of stuff and everyone tries to do it.
My incest obsession? Explain to me your points in posting the pictures in posts 58, 63, 80, and 82 with the caption "Aw dad, come on, you know I'd never tell!". It's clear what the joke was you were attempting to imply. Over the line in my opinion. It's a violation of the young women you pictured. I know what you're saying about the attempts to make Gore appeal to younger women. I just don't think that it's safe to say this picture is part of that. It looks like a family photo to me, not unlike many in normal households.
By the way, your posts are way too long and you did end up being a disruptor.
I simply repeated myself the first few posts. You kept trying to change my mind and I had to explain that there was no way to do that.
You should spend more time on other threads too. I bet somewhere, sometime today, someone will make an observation, someone else will make a crude comment, and someone will snicker. This must stop.
Very rarely do threads turn into a false inuendo free-for-all like this one did.
To quote a popular phrase, "It's not about the incest stupid"
It's too big of a leap. Tell me what evidence you have that this is part of the sexiness campaign.
To quote a popular phrase, "It's not about the incest stupid"
It's about the crudeness of implying incest.
Veeeery curious how #3Fan labeled people puritans for being disgusted by the thought. LOL...liberal disruptor...I knew it!
This just proves that nothing is beyond sacrificing to further algore's would-be career -- not pride, not family, not good taste, not morals -- nothing. Take a hint, al, tipper, & karenna, whatever it is, keep it to yourselves.
Mia T's most excellent depiction of "sax in the city". This is algore's legacy.
I'm beginning to think you're crazy. I've repeated to you several times that my purpose was to show more than one opinion on this issue of this picture. You couldn't accept that and tried for twenty posts to change my mind that it's OK to falsely imply any abomination you want saying I should learn proper ediquette (sic probably...too late in the thread to go through the trouble of looking it up) from Leno and prime-time TV. Since I'm not willing to change my mind and define deviancy down, you now call me a liberal.
I think a lot of you people are misguided puritans. Like the female poster said that I quoted above, you're turning something normal into something perverse. No different train of thought from the what happened in Salem. You said that puritans couldn't be crude. Would you say that burning ~20 women at the stake wasn't crude. Those were puritans that did that.
I'm not saying you people will resort to murder of course, but these threads do add to the stereotypes that the liberal media likes to heave on us. There are plenty of things to criticize Al Gore for. Let's not redefine normal behaviour as perverse in order to get a cheap, false, crude shot in. It's not necessary and it takes away from our credibility.
Reread the thread. I said the photo was staged. All political photos are staged, Republican and Democrat alike. You peoiple are taking this as some kind of sexual display and I think that's silly and said so.
How lucky for the world that the picture was made public so we can all enjoy that chance intimate moment -- yeah, right, just like in my family!
Reread the thread. I said it was staged. Can you read?
I'm angry too. I think it's the Dems who helped cause 9-11 with their attacks against the CIA, etc., over the last 35 years. We have to play smart though and over-reactions and false implications like these allows the media to pigeonhole us as cold puritanical types that are afraid to death of showing warmth. We can't affect change if we end up seen as crazy as the Libertarians have allowed themselves to look. We have to protect our credibility as it relates to finger-pointing. Don't finger-point if there's no crime.
This is the first time I've seen the "consensual incest" topic mentioned on this thread. I thought this thread was about the picture, not NAMBLA's position on issues. So you're saying that since NAMBLA is a leftist organization, it's OK to falsely accuse Gore of anything you want? Since David Duke ran as a Republican, is it OK to accuse Bush of any abomination?
Why don't you stick to the truth. Al Gore has plenty of faults to criticize him for, you don't have to make up things like his supporting "consensual incest" to get a cheap shot in. Do you have any quotes from Al Gore where he supports consensual incest?
Thanks. I appreciate you thoughtfulness. :^)
I found #43 more painful than any snide remarks about family relationships; but that is the nature of FR: after reading some of the awful revelations, we let off steam on a thread like this. But I'm looking beyond the jokes to this faked pxr to the totality of his wrongdoing. I'll cut it down to this: his attempt to shoe-horn himself into the presidency in any way possible, including discounting the military votes, including those from the Cole's crew which had just been bombed.
Yes I agree. The wrongs committed by the liberals and Al Gore in particular are breathtaking and disgusting. Their attempts to throw out legitimate votes in order to win elections is Saddam-like. They seem to have no reverence at all for the things that made America great. They seem to be willing to set any precedent, tell any lie, cheat anybody, break any law to hold power. There's no doubt in my mind that they would trample the first amendment to shut up one or both of the only two facets we have of getting our message out to the people. They own the universites, the networks, Hollywood, the public schools, and the non-elected government beaurocracy but they're not happy with that, they want to shut down our talk radio and probably Fox News along with it with the Fairness Doctrine even though Fox News is balanced already. Anything that's not 90% liberal is extreme conservatism in their eyes. The Daschle tirade was no accident, they're after the first amendment along with the second that they continue to attack. That's why the judicial appointments are so important to them. The Constitution is a conservative document. They know they can't change the Constitution so they try to simply put in liberal judges that will legislate from the bench and bypass the Constitution and the legislative branch. How's that for taxation without representation.
algore's whole life is a lie -- that is the only conclusion I can draw after years of reading about him. His family is in the same lie, apparently willingly. May God help us, and them.
Yeah, you're right about that. As far as staged photos go, this is an extreme example and something I wouldn't do nor would I want any Republican to do in a campaign to it's degree of fakery.
Sorry for the long rant, I didn't want anyone to get the impression that I like Gore. Gore and his ilk may force us into another civil war if they had their way. And unlike Lincoln, Davis, Grant, and Lee, they wouldn't feel guilty about it. Power trumps rightness and conscience to them.
There IS no such thing as "sexual tension" between normal fathers and daughters.
I've never seen anyone as irredeemably serious and over the top as yourself. You're deluded if you think I care about what's in your head, so don't pretend to speak for me. The facts speak for themselves. You're obviously the type that never changes their mind when presented with facts anyhow, so no use even trying. I'm just playing with you like a cat plays with humorless trolls.
My reference to you being a leftist disruptor was tongue-in-cheek to any other reader but yourself. I wasn't talking to you in that post anyhow, I was replying to the mention of a "taboo" with the point that incest isn't even a taboo to some on the far left who, like yourself, call normal people "puritans." By the way, some of your responses are completely nonsensical and show you aren't even absorbing the post before you do your Ginsu replies. It's good for a laugh, but of course your fellow Quakers won't find it very funny. Get thee a clue and a sense of humor, or return to whence you came.
Um... That was kind of my point? That normal, grown women will usually only feel comfortable enough to rest their head in the lap of a man with whom they feel some degree of sexual tension? Did you read my post?
Then why do you keep trying to explain your position to me?
The facts speak for themselves. You're obviously the type that never changes their mind when presented with facts anyhow, so no use even trying. I'm just playing with you like a cat plays with humorless trolls.
Yeah right. That stratement is a fake as that photo. The fact is that I see nothing wrong with the photo and to imply the abomination that you applied to it is not right and over the top in my opinion.
My reference to you being a leftist disruptor was tongue-in-cheek to any other reader but yourself.
Of course. You're such a kidder.
I wasn't talking to you in that post anyhow, I was replying to the mention of a "taboo" with the point that incest isn't even a taboo to some on the far left who, like yourself, call normal people "puritans."
I believe I have the right to respond to a post that has my handle in it.
By the way, some of your responses are completely nonsensical and show you aren't even absorbing the post before you do your Ginsu replies. It's good for a laugh, but of course your fellow Quakers won't find it very funny. Get thee a clue and a sense of humor, or return to whence you came.
Incest jokes about particular people aren't humor from whence I came.
Political image-making to make him appear sexy for young women is one thing, but this is way out there. I have no doubt his other daughter/advisor not in the photo was directing the "love shot" for the cameraman. Hey, they make the image, we deliver the punch line.
No, Al...your "woman" is a nut case. She's basically said so herself...just not in those words.