The Spanish Civil War: An Overview

unknown ^ | unknown | Cary Nelson

[BlackElk]

Those who are into the slaughter of innocent babies as a supportable cause, should have no trouble with the murder of priests, the rape/murder of nuns and the arson destruction of Catholic Churches and institutions, right, Emperor Darkside???

[BlackElk]

He was most certainly far better than the available communist/anarchist alternative. Gently: Should you not leave sainthood decisions to believers?

[Pilsner]

Franco not only protected Spainish Jews from Hitler, he renounced the legal act of Ferdinand and Isabella in expelling the Jews, and decreed that Greek Jews whose ancestors were expelled from Spain 450 years before were still Spainish citizens, which allowed them to travel to Spain and live.

Franco tried to call WWII three wars -- one between The Axis powers and the West, which he was netral in -- one between the Axis powers and the Soviet Union, in which he backed the Axis -- and one between the Western powers and Japan, in which he backed the West. He never succeded, but his point is not without merit.

If the Western powers had saved Communism in Spain it would have done nothing but allow Hitler to invade it and take the whole peninsula, either directly or by the type forced "alliance" he used on Balkan powers. Put Nazi U-Boats and Condors at El Ferrol, Lisbon and Cadiz and the English problem of sea brone supply is probably impossible. The Med and North Africa look even worse for England.

It was a happy coincidence that WWII saw Spain in the hands of a strong man who was never (quite) friendly enough to join Hitler, but who was never (quite) unfriendly enough for Hitler to invade.

[Seydlitz]

Two books that treat the relationship between Franco and Hitler quite well are Anthony Beevor's "The Spanish Civil War" and Ian Kershaw's splendid two volume biography of Hitler, titled "Hubris" and "Nemesis", respectively.

As Beevor makes clear, there was no lost love between the Nazis and Nationalists. Hitler did not aid Franco out of altruistic or ideological motives. Rather, the Germans demanded (and received) extortionate mineral concessions from the Nationalists. This did little to endear Hitler to Franco.

As Kershaw relates in his work, the relationship between Hitler and Franco remained frosty. Franco only agreed to help Germany in exchange for very generous territorial acquisitions. Germany refused. Skorzeny, Hitler's top commando, speculated that Canaris (head of the Abwehr) had told Franco that Hitler had embarked upon a war he could not win, and so Franco should steer clear of the whole mess.

However, Franco did seize one opportunity to help both Hitler and himself. Franco had seized control of the Falangist movement, but wanted to rid himself of its more vocal ideologues. Hitler's attack on Russia proved the perfect opportunity. Some 40,000 die-hard Falangists signed up for the "Azul" or Blue Division to see service in Russia. Even after Franco withdrew even this support, many Blue Division veterans were absorbed into the Waffen-SS.

[Seydlitz]

This re-telling of the Spanish Civil War is decidedly left-wing in its vantage point. It ignores the exceptionally close election results prior to the outbreak of hostilities. It ignores the increasingly violent radicalism of the Republican left. It ignores the fact that the Spanish army, with the exception of the troops fighting in Morocco, was split evenly between the two sides. It ignores the massive numerical and material superiority enjoyed by the Republic for most of the war. Only the incompetence of the Republican high command managed to squander that superiority and translate it into defeat. Finally, the increasing radicalism of the Republican left alienated it from its supporters, as they came to see the Communists as no better than the Nationalists.

That said, Franco was an unsympathetic character. Moreover, his repression of left-wing elements was quite bloody, with the final toll running into the hundreds of thousands of victims.

The Spanish Civil War is a sad tale all around.

[curmudgeonII]

... German and Italian exiles from fascism, some of them escapees from Nazi concentration camps.

No matter how romantic it may read, I find it difficult to imagine that concentration camp escapees [especially from Nazi concentration camps] were present in sufficient numbers to have any influence whatever in this bloody fighting.

[gundog]

Count me in. Thanks.

[capitan_refugio]

Without arguing about the "rights" and 'wrongs" of the Spanish Civil War, I'd like to comment on my impressions of Spain. I travelled there several times and very much enjoyed the Costa Del Sol and Andalucia (the southern mountains). There is a great deal if historical interest there.

What struck me was that all of the older people then (early to mid-1980's) wore black. The men invariably wore black berets, some with insignias, and the older women wore black shawls. I was told by some of the Spaniards I worked with that these were people who had fought in the Civil War, or who had lost family - which meant just about everybody. It didn't matter which side you were on, you all wore black.

[Sparta]

1. I posted this source because it was the most complete source on the Spanish Civil War. I'll admit I didn't check for political leanings. If you have a link to anything supporting your point of view, either post it or FreepMail it to me.
2. I'm not exactly siding entirely with the Loyalists or the Nationalists, because I believe both sides were evil. Loyalists=socialists,communists; Nationalists=fascists. Both of which are equally evil, tyrannical philiosophies.
3. Just because I'm not a fascist, doesn't mean I'm not conservative. I don't feel I need to explain myself to you.

[Sparta]

Here's from the website of your beloved Falange Party.

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Below is the write-up on us from Politics1.com

American Falangist Party - The original Falangist Party has its roots in the fascist era in Spain. Early supporters of Spanish dictator Francisco Franco, the Falangists have been staunchly anti-communist. They have also spurred the creation of fascist Falangist movements in other nations -- including war-torn Lebanon in the early 1980s where the Falangist candidate was elected President (and later assassinated). Their ideology trends towards historic national socialism -- i.e., hardcore social conservatism mixed with leftist economic programs and a general disdain for unfettered individual freedoms. The American Falangists (AFP) are a new movement that denounces abortion ("abortion is murder"), homosexuality ("a disgusting way of life") and privately owned banks ("the nation would be better served by State owned banks"). The AFP certainly espouse some very extremist views: "Any radical homosexual that disrupts a Religious service because they don't agree with what is being said or practiced by that church should be sentenced to a special labor camp for 20 years or in some cases executed." The party uses black shirts as its official uniform -- praise Benito Mussolini and Huey Long -- but denounce violence, anti-Semitism and racism. No candidates fielded to date, but an AFP official said they would like to start fielding a few local candidates by 2002. A Spanish language version of the site also exists.

Statism is evil, no matter how it is wrapped.

http://www.falagne.org

[Sparta]

http://www.falange.org

[MattinNJ]

WTF? Sparta, I'm afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree. Franco was a hero (as was Pinochet) and belongs in the Pantheon of heroes of Western Civilization. Franco was the first person to beat the Communists in bloody street to street fighting. You cannot lump him in with Hitler. Franco was a liberator who spared his country from the bastards who butchered nuns and priests by the hundreds. Hitler was a butcher just like Stalin who was trying to takeover Spain.

Russia sold the Republicans weapons in exchange for Spains gold reserves????????????? Holy Sh!t, the Communists stole the Spanish Gold. Stalin had one of his best quotes ever when he talked about that Gold. He said "the Spaniards will see that gold again like a man can see his own ears".

I'm sorry but Franco was a staunch anti-communist who fought them tooth and nail, was magnanimous in victory (the dead from both sides are buried in the Valley of the Fallen-try and find the graves of anyone Stalin or Mao killed), righted the country after a bitter civil war that bled them white, stood up to Hitler and said he could not pass through Spain to take Gibralter and cut off the British in WWII, and made a peaceful transition back to democracy.

Having said all that, can you put me back on your ping list, I seemed to have been left off. Of course after going off on a rant I would understand if I got bounced off ;)

[MattinNJ]

Professor Stanley Payne bump. I couldn't agree more with your posts. Franco and Pinochet were heroes. Period.

[Sparta]

If I missed you, that was by mistake.(A lot of people have signed up.) Besides, I think we can disagree without being disagreeable. BTW: I'm definitely not a Republic Kool-Aid drinker. I just think democracy was the big loser in the end, no matter who won.

[Sparta]

Their ideology trends towards historic national socialism -- i.e., hardcore social conservatism mixed with leftist economic programs and a general disdain for unfettered individual freedoms.

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That is what Falange believed in. They are complete statists, just like the Commies.

[MattinNJ]

Sorry if I went off on a rant. I'm a big admirer of Franco. My wifes family escaped from Cuba (my wife was actually born in Madrid). Her father often tells me how great Franco treated the Cubans who had lost everything.

[weikel]

Great assesment.

[weikel]

Franco was no libertarian thats for sure he was just better than the commies see #43. Pinochet was almost perfect and pretty much was a libertarian as the security situation allowed.

[Sparta]

Franco was a big anti-communist and a good ally in that department, but he did at least flirt with fascism and that is unforgivable. BTW: I did more research on Franco, he did enact democratic reforms before his death in 1973. I don't think many Commies under a Stalinist Spain would've done it. I'm just not comfortable picking one tyrant over another. I'm also sorry about your wife's family's expulsion from Cuba.(KILL THE BASTARD CASTRO!!!) Also, some of the Franco idoliters have questioned my conservatism. I don't appreciate that.

[weikel]

Facism is evil but its a lesser evil then communism, under communism you have no private property at all and thus are effectively a total slave of the state. The Nazis combined facism with genocidal racism so equating Franco with Hitler is erroneous.