Desecration as a Political Weapon: Lenin destroyed churches for a reason.

FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | November 20, 2002 | Johannes L. Jacobse

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[Carry_Okie]

Religious symbols have a particular power because religion speaks of the higher unseen things like meaning, purpose, value, and destiny, and thus represent a moral comprehension about how the universe is ordered and how man ought to live within it. In fact, the symbol itself can be said to contain this view. The symbol in other words, functions as a placeholder in space and time of eternal and timeless truths.

Hooey. Incitement in service of a false premise.

The symbols have no power other than that which is vested in them by the people, who by that act, lose spiritual power. When one walks with God in spirituality one needs no reminder, no binder, and thus gives no opportunity for an act of desecration, which does more to put people into a blind rage than it does to make them an effective army.

There is no doubt of what Lenin was attempting to accomplish and the author is in that respect correct, but there is nothing timeless about symbology else the entire meaning of the stonehenge would be obvious.

[ninenot]

Note that this desecration thing was first recorded in the Old Testament: Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, captured all of Israel and he and his son, Belshazzar, utilized sacred items from the Temple for booze and whore parties.
See the Book of Daniel, Ch. 5.

About 15 years ago I wrote an essay (published) about the desecration of the Roman Catholic Church's music for worship and began the piece with the quotation "...by the waters of Babylon...we wept..."

We still weep.

[ninenot]

Ping

[Lent]

The symbols have no power other than that which is vested in them by the people, who by that act, lose spiritual power. When one walks with God in spirituality one needs no reminder, no binder, and thus gives no opportunity for an act of desecration, which does more to put people into a blind rage than it does to make them an effective army.

Your argument is with the Russian Orthodox Church then. It is they who put emphasis on icons, for example, as more than merely symbolic representations of spiritual truths. That's what the iconoclast controversy was all about with the Eastern Church and settled by Church Councils.

Personally, I would agree with you that the symbols are only temporally imputed with non-transcendant characteristics. However, the fact of their destruction is more indicative of the disrespect and disdain which Lenin held towards Church property and the IDEA of a transcendant reality beyond Lenin's presumed materialism.

[ppaul]

BOOKMARKED
BUMP

[Desdemona]

There is contempt of the past, a senseless denial of any possibility of enduring meaning, in desecration art. Desecration art functions like the parasite; it destroys the heritage from which it draws its meaning.

Very true and very sad.

[pollwatcher]

The role of the fine artist as a relevant and contributing part of society ended 150 years with the advent of Photography. Those artists who still want to actually affect society go on to be journalistic photographers, filmmakers, graphic designers or editorial cartoonists.

Some who still pursue fine arts may feel the need to shock and provoke to arouse attention and feel relevant.

They cry "censorship" but they thrive on it at the same time. It "empowers" them into relevancy. The best thing to do is to ignore them, or snicker at their infantile ideas and impotent way of expressing them. That will likely drive those neurotic personalities further into addiction, institutionalization....or, who knows, maybe a comfortable CPA career.

[Cicero]

I can assure you that without any churches, religious schools, congregational meeting places, family instruction in religion, or Bibles, the inwardness of Protestantism is just as vulnerable as the ritualism of the Orthodox Church.

[Dataman]

Religious faith was a grave threat to Marxism and Lenin knew it.

Let's cut the euphemisms: It was Christianity that was the threat.

Can a parallel be found with the secularists [libertarians, rabid evolutionists and atheists] who, not finding the god of reason on their side, constantly belittle Christianity Parthian style?

[Carry_Okie]

However, the fact of their destruction is more indicative of the disrespect and disdain which Lenin held towards Church property and the IDEA of a transcendant reality beyond Lenin's presumed materialism.

Yup, they gave him that vulnerability and he took full advantage of it. There's a reason why that Commandment is natural law.

[Carry_Okie]

I can assure you that without any churches, religious schools, congregational meeting places, family instruction in religion, or Bibles, the inwardness of Protestantism is just as vulnerable as the ritualism of the Orthodox Church.

I'll agree with that with one distinction: A bible is a book. It contains stored information. It is not a scared object unless a person imbues it with that character. The essence of that information; i.e., a recorded translation of God's is sacred, but it doesn't matter if it is received as oral tradition, CD, or paper.

As far as Protestantism is concerned (or for that matter IMHO the Church of Rome), I'd say that they've pretty well trodden that path to self-destruction on their own, embracing Lenin instead of understanding the word of God. Consider "Liberation Theology."

[Lent]

As far as Protestantism is concerned (or for that matter IMHO the Church of Rome), I'd say that they've pretty well trodden that path to self-destruction on their own, embracing Lenin instead of understanding the word of God. Consider "Liberation Theology."

Liberation Theology is a phenomenon of the Catholic Church. I understand the Pope John Paul II has had some rather harsh things to say concerning this theology. The largest supporters have been in Central and South America. With respect to Socialism, Pius XI in Quadragesimo Anno(1931), stated, "Socialism, entirely ignorant of and unconcerned about the sublime end of both individuals and of society, affirms that human society was instituted merely for the sake of material well-being." Paul VI expressly condemned four principles of Marxist ideology which a Christian could not hold in Octogesima Adveniens(1971).

From the Protestant perspective, you are referring to the phenomenon characterized as the "Social Gospel". That it is thoroughly pervasive in Protestantism is not evident. However, that it characterizes the theology of a number of "mainstream" Protestant denominations is a reality.

[Carry_Okie]

From the Protestant perspective, you are referring to the phenomenon characterized as the "Social Gospel". That it is thoroughly pervasive in Protestantism is not evident. However, that it characterizes the theology of a number of "mainstream" Protestant denominations is a reality.

A number of people in my family are prominent Presbyterian theologists and administrators. They are typical, aging, Berkeley, Marin, and Palo Alto liberals living off old money. These folks milk their congregations for money while they soft-sell the agenda.

[Lent]

A number of people in my family are prominent Presbyterian theologists and administrators. They are typical, aging, Berkeley, Marin, and Palo Alto liberals living off old money. These folks milk their congregations for money while they soft-sell the agend

Yup.

[lodwick]

bttt

[Stefan Stackhouse]

Maybe we're just being too nice. Can't turnabout be fair play? Why can't someone start desecrating the icons of liberal secularism? For example, how about a painting of Voltaire, smeared with feces? Or a photograph of Margaret Sanger, splattered with blood?

[MarMema]

Thank you so much for this post and the link to the author's site.

[MarMema]

So I can safely assume then that you have never been baptized?