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Bandage Cost Concerns With Smallpox Vaccinations - virus can seep out and harm others??
wkrn ^

Posted on 11/20/2002 9:40:24 PM PST by chance33_98

Bandage Cost Concerns With Smallpox Vaccinations

Bandage Cost Concerns With Smallpox Vaccinations

Reporter: Silvia Castaneda

A terrorist attack involving smallpox is a real threat, but the biggest hurdle in developing a vaccination plan is not the cost - it's the bandages.

Tricia Mewbourne went to Vanderbilt Medical Center to get a bandage change. She has a sore on her arm from the smallpox vaccine.

"You see the seepage and you wonder whether it's going outside," Tricia said.

The "it" she was talking about is the live virus in the vaccine. If the virus were to escape from her arm and expose others: "Certain individuals can get fairly ill and even die from this virus."

So Tricia and other Vanderbilt study volunteers are having sores kept under double wraps, using two bandages. Bandages are changed every three days for a few weeks. Each change costs a dollar, so in a mass vaccination situation: "If you multiply that by hundreds of thousands or several thousand individuals, it could be very costly," said Dr. Tom Talbot.

And if most of the state would have to be vaccinated, the bandage cost would be in the millions. But there's no plan right now on who'd pick up that cost. It could fall on strapped local governments.

"We are not stockpiling bandages at this time, " said Dr. Allen Craig.

State Health Department epidemiologist Dr. Allen Craig said it's too early to do that, not only because of cost, but because the federal government hasn't figured out what bandage may protect best. However, if millions of bandages would be needed in a hurry, Dr. Craig said cost wouldn't be a factor.

"We will be able to pick up the cost using federal or state dollars if we need to."

In the meantime, Vanderbilt researchers said they want to test different types of bandages to see whether the cheap ones, like gauze ones that cost just a couple of cents, could protect as well as the costly ones.

TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Tennessee
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The "it" she was talking about is the live virus in the vaccine. If the virus were to escape from her arm and expose others: "Certain individuals can get fairly ill and even die from this virus."

Never heard of that....

1 posted on 11/20/2002 9:40:24 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
I thought they used a "dead" form?
2 posted on 11/20/2002 9:41:29 PM PST by goodnesswins
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To: goodnesswins
No - It's very much alive. This is why the decision to vacinate at all is such a big one. Once you start vacinating anyone, you put the virus back out into the general population.
3 posted on 11/20/2002 9:44:57 PM PST by Route66
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To: chance33_98
I still remember my kids getting their smallpox vacinations years ago...I do NOT remember the sores getting very large or "runny".

In fact, none of my youngsters even have much of a scar...and come to think of it...neither do my husband or I.

Is this new vacine extra potent or something????

4 posted on 11/20/2002 9:46:25 PM PST by crazykatz
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To: chance33_98
The virus is inert. This is ridiculous! Needs a barf alert!

But, it is indicative of the emotionalism surrounding smallpox. It is like a fear of mice. Totally ridiculous!

5 posted on 11/20/2002 9:46:51 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: Route66
Codswallop and balderdash ! When everyone used to be vacinated,as yet unvacinated siblings didn't " catch " smallpox, from the toddlers, who had just been vacinated. What...did dthey have " better " badaids, in 1910, 1930, 1950, or 1970, than they have today ? this " smallpox hysteria " is just ridiculous !
6 posted on 11/20/2002 9:49:28 PM PST by nopardons
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To: crazykatz
When I was a kid, we all got them at school, no one was concerned about bandages or anything, the thing scabbed over & there was no runny goo! Are these people who are bringing this up, very young & don't remember how it was done years ago, without panic attached to it. It was just another routine shot all grade school kids had to have.
7 posted on 11/20/2002 9:50:17 PM PST by blondee123
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To: crazykatz
The smallpox vaccine is supposed to initiate a reaction in your immune system so that antibodies are created. This usually makes a sore or black colored scab. It often scars and is perfectly normal, in fact a sign that the vaccine worked.

To think that you would need anything other than a curad bandaid with or without a picture of a frog on it is assinine!

8 posted on 11/20/2002 9:54:04 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: crazykatz
I was vaccinated as a kid, 2 of my close friends are docs, one does research for the cdc, both say once you are vaccinated you are ok, it doesn't wear off as some are saying, so I guess everyone over 30-35 is ok
9 posted on 11/20/2002 10:16:25 PM PST by Ford Fairlane
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To: nopardons
Look - Please don't shoot me for being the messenger. This is just fact. Some people in the population WILL be at risk of becoming seriously ill from those who have been vacinated. People who are immune compromised are not candidates for the vaccine and are definitely at risk.

This does not mean it may not be neccessary to vaccinate anyway, but the facts are that the vaccine in not 'inert' and if any people are vaccinated, some of those who have not innoculated will become ill and some may die. Even the CDC has admitted it.
10 posted on 11/20/2002 10:16:41 PM PST by Route66
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To: wirestripper; bonesmccoy
One thing we didn't have in the old days of smallpox inoculations was AIDS. Could secondhand virus from the vaccinations result in some of these people manifesting some form of the pox?
11 posted on 11/20/2002 10:19:31 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Route66
Look-Please don't shoot the querant. I asked a proven, factual, historically sound query. WHY DIDN'T UNVACINATED CHILDREN AND IMMUNE COMPROMISE PEOPLE DIE IN THE CENTURY, WHEN SMALLPOX VACINATIONS WERE THE NORM ?

On a personal note, having been vacinated and been given two booster shots, I'm fine and won't need revacination nor additional boosters. That's a fact , BTW.

12 posted on 11/20/2002 10:20:49 PM PST by nopardons
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To: chance33_98


Smallpox strategies simulated
Models call for vaccinations before bioterror attack.
15 November 2002

Immunity levels of people vaccinnated in the 1970s are uncertain.

Pre-emptive vaccination of healthcare workers is the key to thwarting a deadly smallpox epidemic, according to the latest simulation1.

A previous study concluded that the best strategy would be to vaccinate the entire US population after an attack2. But vaccinating only those who are likely to be exposed initially, such as healthcare workers, could be almost as effective, say statistician Elizabeth Halloran of Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, and her colleagues.

The existing immunity of people vaccinated before 1972 - when immunization of US children stopped - might reduce the need for mass vaccination. "With residual immunity, the two strategies become close," says Halloran.

The current US plan for a smallpox outbreak calls for targeted vaccination, followed by mass vaccination if necessary. But public-health and national-security agencies continue to seek the best protection strategy.

Halloran says that targeted vaccination might be the best strategy only if vaccine supplies are limited, or to reduce the rare, but sometimes fatal, reactions to vaccination. The United States stockpiles enough vaccine for all its residents.

Stopping the spread

Halloran's model charts the fates of 2,000 citizens in a neighbourhood containing either one or five infected people. The previous model, developed by a team led by Edward Kaplan of Yale University, began with 1,000 infected people in a city of 10 million.

Kaplan's model assumes that people mix freely, resulting in millions of interactions. In fact, says Halloran, people usually make fewer than 10 contacts close enough to be infectious per day.

"We were searching for a robust policy that could contain worst-case scenario outbreaks," Kaplan counters. "That is common sense - any intervention that can control the worst case can also control anything less severe."

Kaplan is reassured that such different studies give similar recommendations. Both show that any amount of pre-attack vaccination limits the outbreak, and that the quicker the response, the better.

Targeted vaccination was used to eradicate smallpox, but it would not be as effective now, says Alan Zelicoff, a biowarfare expert at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico. "Nailing down each case wouldn't work in New York City in 2002," he says.

As more studies are done, notes Zelicoff, the number of people recommended for pre-emptive vaccination has gone up and up.

The federal government has called for about 500,000 healthcare 'first responders' to be vaccinated. Kaplan has calculated that roughly 2 million people, including ambulance drivers, police officers and vaccinators would be needed for a mass vaccination effort.

13 posted on 11/20/2002 10:32:26 PM PST by woofie
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: nopardons
I think the simple answer to yor question is - some of them did become ill or die. We just were not aware they did. Vaccines were much more dangerous then, and this is an old vaccine. As the article I am going to link to below says, we have just become used to vaccines with less risk than this one has. The reason they have not lined up everyone for these is because it is going to cause some significant problems and they are trying to work out how they will handle those problems in advance.
>A lot of people think getting the smallpox vaccine "is like going in and getting a flu shot," said Dr. Michael Welch of the Richmond Department of Public Health. "It's not."

There is a short list of who should not get the vaccine, but it could add up to a lot of people. Experts say pregnant women should not. Nor should people with chronic and severe skin infections or those with compromised immune systems from HIV or and organ transplants, for example.

Pre-event vaccinations also could put health-care workers in a bind.

"The area of the vaccination ends up being contagious for a little while," Smithson said. "It can give people vaccinia. Hospitals deal with immunocompromised patients. How do you give it to your staff and then say you cannot be around any immunosuppressed people for 10 days?"

The federal Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices a few weeks ago came out with a statement that said as long as the vaccination area was covered by a bandage, vaccinated health-care workers would not have to miss work. The recommendations were forwarded to the CDC, which still needs to sign off on them.

Smithson points out that the patient literature that comes with the Dryvax vaccine seems to imply more caution. The precautions say: "Recently vaccinated health-care workers should avoid contact with patients, particularly those with immunodeficiencies, until the scab has separated from the skin at the vaccination site."

It later tells health-care workers what steps to take if contact with patients is "essential and unavoidable."

At a meeting of the Secure Virginia Initiative's health and medical subpanel, one county health official said informal conversations with his staff turned up quite a few people who would not be eligible to get the vaccine or who simply did not want it.

Kaplowitz said the answer may be to consider regional teams instead of teams at individual hospitals or by cities or counties.

"We can't force anybody to take the vaccine, and this will be an issue," Kaplowitz said.

Smithson said public expectations may be against pre-event vaccinations on any large scale. Because vaccines have been made safer over the years, people don't expect any casualties.

"When there were mostly live virus vaccines, over 20 to 30 years ago, there were a certain number who died. Now that we have these vaccines that are much safer, we have not had those bad outcomes," Smithson said. "The American people are used to zero deaths and zero complications. That makes it a little tougher."<

15 posted on 11/20/2002 10:47:43 PM PST by Route66
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To: Route66
No - It's very much alive. This is why the decision to vacinate at all is such a big one. Once you start vacinating anyone, you put the virus back out into the general population.


There are exactly two types of vaccinations: Live culture and dead culture.

In dead culture, just a portion of the virus is used, usually the outer coat, so that your body will "learn" that chemical signature and develop antibodies which will also be effective against any arrival of the "real" virus.

In live culture, a *crippled* form of the real virus is used, one which reproduces in the body, but lacks the ability to cause the original dangerous disease. It just multiplies harmlessly around in your body for a bit until your body develops effective antibodies and wipes it out, again leaving you with lasting protection against any future similar infection.

*NEITHER* form of vaccine "puts the [actual disease-producing] virus out into the population".


If the smallpox vaccine they're manufacturing is the dead form, there's no issue at all of needing "bandages".

If the vaccine is the live form, the *only* thing that could spread person to person if the infected injection site is not properly covered is the *LIVE VACCINE*. In other words, you could actually indirectly *vaccinate* other people who came into contact with it. You would *not* give them "smallpox".

If the article isn't entirely off base, what they're talking about is the risk of giving other people an accidental vaccination, with the usual risk of adverse reactions to vaccination, especially if they're high-risk individuals for allergic reactions or have weakened immune systems. Not to mention the fact that any pus oozing from your skin could conceivably spread any other pathogens you happened to have in your body, like Hepatitis, AIDS, etc.

16 posted on 11/20/2002 10:54:37 PM PST by Dan Day
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To: Route66
Look, the smallpox vacination almost killed me, when I first got it and I was a tiny child. Back then, people knew that their were risks; they just didn't sue everyone, when they sneezed. That's the problem, today; many people ( including a lot of FREEPERS ! )just can't see the forest for the trees. I guess that they'd rather GET smallpox, than be somewhat discomfitted from the shot. Oh well, those who get the shot and those who don't, will all probably sue the government and the drug companies,no matter what happens.

BTW, this talked about smallpox vacine, is NOT " old ", it's new and is coming from England.One of my friends is an expert, who works as a consultant ( and sometimes doctor, as he did during 9/11/01 ) for the CDC. I'll take his word for this stuff; rather than an article posted on FR and / or the hysterical posts, from people who don't have ALL of the facts.

17 posted on 11/20/2002 10:56:23 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Dan Day
In other words, you could actually indirectly *vaccinate* other people who came into contact with it.

Kind of like secondary smoke. These vaccination threads have shown just how downright mentally disturbed this nation has become. In the middle ages the population could be forgiven their ignorance about disease and its treatment or prevention, but for that to be happening now is willful stupidity.

18 posted on 11/20/2002 11:04:09 PM PST by Texasforever
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To: Route66
Vaccination for small pox is not done with small pox virus. It is done with Vaccinia virus, cow pox virus, because cow pox virus induces cross immunity.

People with immune deficiencies, and people with eczema or other open sores on their skin can get over inoculated with the virus as it will take up residence in all open wounds. So people in the household or close friends of people who are vaccinated and shedding cow pox virus can be at risk if they have immune deficiencies from cancer treatment, transplant immunosuppression, steroid treatment, etc. Plus those with skin rashes and lesions are at risk.

To understand why we all got vaccinated back then you have to realize how great a killer small pox was and that the survivors were often terribly disfigured with scars.

That the U.S. and Britain are prepared to reintroduce vaccination tells you they must know something about what Saddam has been cooking up these past years. That to me is a terrible crime against humanity in itself and deserves the death penalty.

19 posted on 11/20/2002 11:14:44 PM PST by patriciaruth
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To: wirestripper
The virus is inert

I believe it is "attenuated," meaning not dead but weakened and still alive.

20 posted on 11/20/2002 11:16:37 PM PST by patriciaruth
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