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CIA Releases New 'Noah's Ark' Documents
Insight Mag ^ | Nov. 13, 2002 | Timothy W. Maier

Posted on 11/21/2002 11:50:10 AM PST by Ready2go

CIA Releases New 'Noah's Ark' Documents Posted Nov. 13, 2002 By Timothy W. Maier

Is it the Ark, or just a piece of rock?

Two years after Insight filed an appeal charging that the CIA withheld documents and imagery concerning the Mount Ararat anomaly in Turkey, the CIA has released two new documents to Insight that indicate the search for "Noah's Ark" reached the level of the White House under former president George H.W. Bush.

The appeal, filed one month after Insight's exclusive story (see "Anomaly or Noah's Ark?"; Nov. 20, 2000), comes on the heels of the CIA's releasing thousands of satellite images, which soon will be available at National Imagery and Mapping Agency Website. It is unclear whether images of Mount Ararat will be included. Insight's exclusive story marked the first time the public was able to see high-resolution photographs of the anomaly, located at 39 degrees 42 minutes north latitude and 44 degrees 16 minutes east longitude. Insight contracted with Space Imaging to maneuver its IKONOS satellite to zoom in on the anomaly. Afterwards, Insight hired a team of scientists and engineers to examine the pictures and to deterimine whether the object in question was man-made or rock. Four of the experts claim it's man-made, two believe it's rock and one says the evidence is inconclusive.

Unfortunately, the release of the additional records does not offer any more proof of what the object might be, but only raises more questions as to why the CIA continues to hold such records as classified.

One of the records released is a 1995 memo from an agent who had a coversation with John Hanford, then a member of Sen. Richard Lugar's (R-Ind.) staff. Hanford apparently recalled a White House meeting under the George H.W. Bush administration in which Robert Gates, then National Security director, showed one of the old images of the Mount Ararat area to various people at the meeting. "Mr. Hanford said that imagery showed something sticking out from the ice and snow — but that it could have been almost anything."

The memo was triggered by a newspaper article that suggested Mount Ararat imagery might be made public under former president Bill Clinton's decision to release historical documents. The CIA agent says in the memo that such imagery "might or might not be included in the declassified materials."

The other record concerned a review the George H.W. Bush administration conducted between 1990 and 1992 concerning Mount Ararat. The record was in response to former CIA director James Woolsey's requesting what it might cost to undertake a more exhaustive review of all the material. At the time, the price was considered too high to do such a search. Woolsey was told it would take an analyst six months to complete such a study. It appears that study never was completed.

Insight still may receive additional records. The CIA has asked other agencies to review specific records for possible release in the near future. In the meantime, Insight is reviewing its options on whether to pursue in federal court images taken by the CIA with its KH-9 remote-sensing satellite in 1973 and its KH-11 satellite in 1976, 1990 and 1992.

Timothy Maier is a writer for Insight. email the author

MORE:

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cia; classified; documents; imagery; manmade; mapping; mountararat; noahsark; president; rock; satellite; scientists; turkey; whitehouse
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1 posted on 11/21/2002 11:50:11 AM PST by Ready2go
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To: Ready2go
Yes, but when are they going to release info about the Ark of the Covenant, which rumor has it was stored away in a government warehouse during WWII?

Seriously, looking at shapes in the snow on a mountain is like looking for faces in cloud patterns. You can see anything you want to see if you look around enough and look hard enough (IMHO).

2 posted on 11/21/2002 11:59:54 AM PST by SteveH
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To: Ready2go
Perhaps they dont want it release 1) because it is inconclusive and 2) because the nation of Turkey has in the past not been very interested in having treasure hunters or even legit archeologists running around in that area where there are still hostilities between the Turks and Kurd rebels.

Also, Turkey is polulated by moslems who know that they are descendants of Noah. They dont need scientific truth of that. Why do us Westerners seem to feel they need to be able to point to the ark in order to believe?

3 posted on 11/21/2002 12:17:21 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Ready2go
Perhaps they dont want it release 1) because it is inconclusive and 2) because the nation of Turkey has in the past not been very interested in having treasure hunters or even legit archeologists running around in that area where there are still hostilities between the Turks and Kurd rebels.

Also, Turkey is polulated by moslems who know that they are descendants of Noah. They dont need scientific truth of that. Why do us Westerners seem to feel they need to be able to point to the ark in order to believe?

4 posted on 11/21/2002 12:17:25 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Ready2go
Perhaps they dont want it release 1) because it is inconclusive and 2) because the nation of Turkey has in the past not been very interested in having treasure hunters or even legit archeologists running around in that area where there are still hostilities between the Turks and Kurd rebels.

Also, Turkey is polulated by moslems who know that they are descendants of Noah. They dont need scientific truth of that. Why do us Westerners seem to feel they need to be able to point to the ark in order to believe?

5 posted on 11/21/2002 12:17:25 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Ready2go
Quickbird was scheduled to image the anomaly also. I have not heard anything about it in the last year though. Anyone know if those shots were taken or have been released?
6 posted on 11/21/2002 12:24:35 PM PST by ZGuy
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To: Dave S
Perhaps they don't NEED it 'to believe', but WANT it to PRESERVE it.
7 posted on 11/21/2002 12:39:11 PM PST by ET(end tyranny)
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To: Ready2go
Please, if we know exactly where it is, why waist time looking at sat photos. You send in a team and confirm it. Mount Ararat is not like Everest or K-2 and since the exact location is known the expedition could be done in less than a week.

As for the Kerds, I don't think they would mess with a US expedition right now. We would have to include some Turks for the permissions. Might as well send in the I-Max team as well just for fun.

If anything were there it would have been discovered long ago. Think of the tourist dollars Turkey could rake in.

Lets just push Geraldo out of a helicopter and let him look.

8 posted on 11/21/2002 1:05:17 PM PST by usurper
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To: SteveH
The Ark of the Covenant is stored in Ethiopia. Really. Ethiopia is home to some of the original Christian sects, and has supposedly been the storage place of the Ark since the 1400's. Only two people have been in charge of guarding it since then. (Long life as with the patriarchs.) Source for this: National Geographic
9 posted on 11/21/2002 4:39:46 PM PST by 11B3
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To: Ready2go
I have a question for those that believe in the literal view of the truth of this story. The ark according to the NIV was 450 feet long by 75 feet wide by 45 feet high having three decks of 15 feet. The square feet area of a deck, 33,750 sq ft. is smaller than a modern football field with the field dimensons being 120 by 360, 43,200sq ft. Now on this ark was not only all the animals of the earth in pair but also Noah and family and provisions to last the more than 250 days until the door is opened. Now the total deck surface of the ark is 33,750 x 3 equals 101,250 square feet. And the total volume is 101,250 times 15 or 1,518,750 cubic feet (56,250 cubic yards). Is it possible to store all the animals and provisions for the time period in this space?
10 posted on 11/22/2002 8:19:04 AM PST by Investment Biker
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To: Ready2go
Here is the photo that first located the anomaly. It was taken by a US Air Force mission on June 19,1949

Hete is a photo from space taken by the satellite Ikonos on August 11, 2000.


11 posted on 11/22/2002 8:37:58 AM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Ready2go
For further information on my #10 post. There are approximately the following species that had to be on the ark.

251,000 insects
123,000 antrapoda (spiders, mites)
12,000 flatworms
12,000 roundworms
12,000 earthworms
9,000 birds
6,300 reptiles
4,184 amphpia
4,000 mammals

Multiply each by 2 and remember that provisions were also needed. Now just assuming 8,000 mammals that means there is just 12 sq ft (3.5 ft x 3.5 ft) for each mammal and provisions for that mammal. In that space would need to be at least 2 amphia, 3 reptiles, 4 birds, 18 worms, plus insects.
12 posted on 11/22/2002 9:27:44 AM PST by Investment Biker
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To: Investment Biker
I have a question for those that believe in the literal view of the truth of this story.... Is it possible to store all the animals and provisions for the time period in this space?

See the excerpt below for one view on this. The link will take you to the source. Christian evidences is a fascinitng study, but I also try to follow the cliche "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!"

The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15) which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep. If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah’s family and ‘range’ for the animals. However, insects are not included in the meaning of behemah or remes in Genesis 6:19-20, so Noah probably would not have taken them on board as passengers anyway. Tabulating the total volume is fair enough, since this shows that there would be plenty of room on the Ark for the animals with plenty left over for food, range etc. It would be possible to stack cages, with food on top or nearby (to minimize the amount of food carrying the humans had to do), to fill up more of the Ark space, while still allowing plenty of room for gaps for air circulation. We are discussing an emergency situation, not necessarily luxury accommodation. Although there is plenty of room for exercise, skeptics have overstated animals’ needs for exercise anyway. Even if we don’t allow stacking one cage on top of another to save floor space, there would be no problem. Woodmorappe shows from standard recommended floor space requirements for animals that all of them together would have needed less than half the available floor space of the Ark’s three decks. This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals.

(How did all the animals fit on Noah’s Ark?)

13 posted on 11/22/2002 9:28:33 AM PST by 1riot1ranger
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: SteveH
Yes, but when are they going to release info about the Ark of the Covenant, which rumor has it was stored away in a government warehouse during WWII?


15 posted on 11/22/2002 9:36:57 AM PST by mhking
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To: Buck Turgidson
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/images/wpe24.jpg
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-05.htm
Pretty compelling pictures here...I cant post.....But Turkey has a visitor center set up there...next to the ark. Ron Wyatt site is very interesting.
16 posted on 11/22/2002 9:37:07 AM PST by Delbert
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: 1riot1ranger
IF the link in #13 doesn't work, try this one.

http://answersingenesis.org/home/area/Magazines/docs/cen_v19n2_animals_ark.asp
18 posted on 11/22/2002 9:48:35 AM PST by 1riot1ranger
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To: Investment Biker
Most of the insects and other arthropods, as well as many plants, that survived the flood probably floated on gigantic mats of floating vegetation. The animals on the ark would mostly have been vertebrates.

Most animals are known to hibernate or estivate during periods of extreme weather, so many of the creatures may have been very inactive in this time period.

Also Noah likely took smaller immature animals on the ark, that have been easier to care for. There would have been plenty of room for all modern animals and even extinct animals like dinosaurs.

Finally, many animals that are considered different species may have developed from a single pair on the ark. For example, Asian elephants and African elephants are different species, but they may have descended from a single pair of elephants on the ark. This is true for almost all species of vertibrates.

19 posted on 11/22/2002 9:49:41 AM PST by far sider
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To: Investment Biker
There is no number for the animals on the Ark recorded. You are guessing.
20 posted on 11/22/2002 9:54:19 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: Investment Biker
Multiply each by 2 and remember that provisions were also needed. Now just assuming 8,000 mammals that means there is just 12 sq ft (3.5 ft x 3.5 ft) for each mammal and provisions for that mammal. In that space would need to be at least 2 amphia, 3 reptiles, 4 birds, 18 worms, plus insects.

Don't forget the dinosaurs.

Yes, someone on here once tried to tell me that the dinosaurs were also on the Arc. Since the world is only 7000 years old and all.

This is probably the biggest reason why I consider the bible a very well written novel. But I guess they do call it "Faith" for a reason.

21 posted on 11/22/2002 9:56:01 AM PST by Johnny Shear
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To: Investment Biker
How narrow of you to omit the inclusion of gay animals on the ark. They had a right to be spared, too, so that they could have been able to perpetuate their species..... 8~)
22 posted on 11/22/2002 10:00:08 AM PST by tracer
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To: 1riot1ranger
The CIA guys working on this project continue to agonize over the last remaining Intelligence Collection Requirement, namely: "Define the word 'cubit'"...
23 posted on 11/22/2002 10:04:05 AM PST by tracer
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To: Johnny Shear
Yes, someone on here once tried to tell me that the dinosaurs were also on the Arc.

Dinosaurs probably were on the ark. There ya go.

24 posted on 11/22/2002 10:06:01 AM PST by far sider
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To: tracer
1 cubit = approx. 18 inches
25 posted on 11/22/2002 10:07:43 AM PST by far sider
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: far sider
Finally, many animals that are considered different species may have developed from a single pair on the ark. For example, Asian elephants and African elephants are different species, but they may have descended from a single pair of elephants on the ark. This is true for almost all species of vertibrates.

I find it interesting that many people think Noah took two dogs, for example, onto the ark. Yet today, just a few thousand years later, we have Chihuahuas, Great Danes, Poodles, Mastiffs, and weenie dogs. These same people do not believe in Evolution.

27 posted on 11/22/2002 10:16:17 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: AppyPappy
Actually, the story commands Noah to take two of each species. The numbers given were based upon the actuals number of species IDENTIFIED today. Not a guess
28 posted on 11/22/2002 10:23:32 AM PST by Investment Biker
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To: Dog Gone
like many horses, many dog breeds were created by humans ... they selected traits and created the breeds by controlling the mix ...
29 posted on 11/22/2002 10:24:04 AM PST by Bobby777
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To: Investment Biker
But you have no idea how many were on the Ark. You are guessing.
30 posted on 11/22/2002 10:25:54 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: Johnny Shear
One can still have faith and think that the Old Testament is a collection of stories meant to explain to man the the meaning and history of his relationship with God.
31 posted on 11/22/2002 10:25:57 AM PST by Investment Biker
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To: Dog Gone
Yet today, we have Chihuahuas, Great Danes, Poodles, Mastiffs, and weenie dogs.

Publication date: 09/17/2002

A dog is not a dog is not a dog

BY NICKY RUBENSTEIN Special To The Examiner

The American Kennel Club (www.AKC.org) currently recognizes about 150 different dog breeds, and the International Dog Association -- "Fédération Cynologique Internationale" (www.FCI.be) -- lists more than 400 of them.

Most of these breeds, as we know them today, have existed for less than 130 years, which is when the first kennel clubs were created in England, the United States, France, Belgium and Canada. Kennel clubs define the standard for each breed, which includes a description of the purpose of the breed, desired temperament, body proportions and wither (shoulder) height, coat types and colors, and many other details that distinguish one breed from any other.

http://www.examiner.com/ex_files/default.jsp?story=C0917ANINAL9w
32 posted on 11/22/2002 10:30:34 AM PST by Bobby777
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To: far sider
"For example, Asian elephants and African elephants are different species, but they may have descended from a single pair of elephants on the ark. " You say this as though it is accepted scientific and reglious fact that animals descend from one another. Yet the book of Genisis directly contradicts your assertion with God having created each animal. Further science would assert that the divergence of Asian Elephants and African Elephants occoured much longer than the time frame you are suggesting.

With regard to insects the story does not include an exemption for insects. Two of each animal was to be put upon the Ark.
33 posted on 11/22/2002 10:39:56 AM PST by Investment Biker
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To: Dog Gone
I find it interesting that many people think Noah took two dogs, for example, onto the ark. Yet today, just a few thousand years later, we have Chihuahuas, Great Danes, Poodles, Mastiffs, and weenie dogs. These same people do not believe in Evolution.

Your comments are quite uninformed. Despite 1000s of years of selective breeding (which is altogether different from "evolution by natural selection") there is still only one species of dog. All the varieties you have cited are "breeds".

Most or all of the 100s of breeds of dog are acknowledged by biologists to have been developed during historic times, i.e., within the last several thousand years. As another poster has said, the AKC says most breeds are less than 150 years old.

This is true of all domesticated animals and plants.

Another fact you may be unaware of: pure breeds of dogs when released to the wild, and allowed to interbreed with other dogs, produce offspring with less specialized characteristics (ie, mutts) within a few generations. In other words the changes produced by selective breeding are not permanent, ie, not evolution.

34 posted on 11/22/2002 11:01:01 AM PST by far sider
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To: usurper; Ready2go; All
Agreed!

As an semi-experienced mountain climber, I don't quite understand the problem with THIS. The three biggest excuses are:

1) Ark is high on a big mountain. Ridiculous! If my memory serves me right its been estimated to be at 12,000 ft. This is not very high at all. I did weekend vacation climbs in the Sierra Nevadas in Calif. at 14,000 ft, just for fun.

2) The area of the mountain is hard to get to and the ark is hard to find. Anyone ever hear of Global Positioning Satellites. In addition, an expedition was just completed by the National Geographic Society that surveyed the ENTIRE NORTH FACE OF MOUNT EVEREST (thats 25,000 to 29,000 ft for those who don't know), looking for the body of George Mallory and his climbing partner lost in 1923!!!!!!!!!! They found his body too!

3) Its a dangerous, terrorist-infested area. Completely stupid. How many terrorists have you heard of hanging out on a glaciated slope at 12,000 ft.

This whole controversy is no controversy at all and is beginning to bore me................but it does make good grist for Art Bell.

35 posted on 11/22/2002 11:04:26 AM PST by DoctorMichael
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To: far sider
Forwarding to undoubdtedly grateful folks in Langely....
36 posted on 11/22/2002 11:05:51 AM PST by tracer
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To: far sider
OK. Now, tell me, then -- what is an ark??
37 posted on 11/22/2002 11:06:40 AM PST by tracer
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To: far sider
You have failed to properly recognize that PUGS make up an entire species of their own, and an exalted one at that..... 8~)
38 posted on 11/22/2002 11:09:10 AM PST by tracer
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To: Investment Biker
Pointless. If it was a miraculous occurrence, trying to quantify it is silly. If God wanted to fit the planet Jupiter in the watch pocket of my blue jeans, He could do it. But it would be fruitless trying to calculate the difficulty involved... it's like asking where all the water came from, or where it went.
39 posted on 11/22/2002 11:09:46 AM PST by Sloth
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To: Investment Biker
One can still have faith and think that the Old Testament is a collection of stories meant to explain to man the the meaning and history of his relationship with God.

True, although many different ancient cultures have transmitted tales of a great flood. There are many possible explanations for the stories.

40 posted on 11/22/2002 11:10:51 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: 11B3
I saw a piece on that a few years back on, I believe, the History Channel. What the conclusion ended up being was that evidence supported that theory but that there was virtually no modern day proof to substantiate it.
41 posted on 11/22/2002 11:13:01 AM PST by riley1992
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To: All
1. "Ark" is an archaic word for a sealed box or coffer in which something valuable is preserved, such as the "Holy Ark" in a synagogue.

2. Most believers feel that Noah had only the domesticated or useful animals, such as cattle, sheep, goats, chickens etc. on board his craft...not every last animal and species on the Earth.

3. The Ark of the Covenant, together with other relics of the Moses era, are in a catacomb under the northern part of Jerusalem's Old City.

4. Many Armenian families have pieces of the Holy Ark [of Noah] treasured from the era of roughly 1780-1880 when it was more accessible atop Ararat than it is now. Other relics may have been retrieved from it much earlier as well and it is a rare Armenian sanctuary that does not have any at all.

42 posted on 11/22/2002 11:16:44 AM PST by crystalk
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To: Investment Biker
What about the fish?
43 posted on 11/22/2002 11:18:10 AM PST by john316
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To: Bobby777
World's dogs are descended from Asian wolves

Scientists have found that almost all dogs share a common gene pool after analysing the DNA of hundreds of dogs from Europe, Asia, Africa and North America.

They have concluded domesticated dogs originated from wolves in East Asia nearly 15,000 years ago.

The animals travelled with humans through Europe and Asia and across the Bering Strait with the first settlers in America.

Swedish and Chinese scientists studied the genes of 654 dogs and found a higher genetic diversity among East Asian dogs suggested that people there were the first to domesticate dogs from wolves.

The scientists said in a study presented in the new issue of the journal Science: "Most earlier guesses have focused on the Middle East as the place of origin for dogs, based on few known facts - a small amount of archaeological evidence from the region, and the fact that several other animals were domesticated there," said lead researcher Peter Savolainen of Sweden's Royal Institute of Technology.

A separate study by researchers in the US, Latin America and Sweden said dogs with DNA linked to Eurasian wolves were present in the Americas before the arrival of European explorers in the 15th century...

Story filed: 19:02 Thursday 21st November 2002

From: Ananova:http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_713600.html

Same article was also posted on FR yesterday.

44 posted on 11/22/2002 11:21:17 AM PST by libertysdaughter
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To: john316
"What about the fish?"

I only included those species that could not survive the flood. But there are many, many fish species.
45 posted on 11/22/2002 11:21:21 AM PST by Investment Biker
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To: Investment Biker
Yet the book of Genisis (sic) directly contradicts your assertion with God having created each animal.

You should read Genesis, before making your silly statements. Genesis 1 says God created "kinds" of animals and plants. The Hebrew term is "baramin." The definition of "kinds" relates to how animals reproduce. If they can interbreed to produce fertile offspring they are of the same "kind." The definition of species (or definitions, since scientists use at least a couple of different ones) is quite different.

Further science would assert that the divergence of Asian Elephants and African Elephants occoured much longer than the time frame you are suggesting.

This may be true, but I'll bet you're just making it up. If not, show me.

With regard to insects the story does not include an exemption for insects. Two of each animal was to be put upon the Ark.

The Bible says that all animals that breathed upon the earth were destroyed if they were not on the Ark. It even refers to animals with "nostrils." (Gen. 7:22) All I am saying is it certainly did not apply to all aquatic species, and may not have applied to insects. Again you should read the book sometime if you're going to claim to be such an expert on it.

46 posted on 11/22/2002 11:21:28 AM PST by far sider
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To: 11B3
I heard that, too. The documentaries on the Mt. Ararat "ark" are pretty convincing though.
47 posted on 11/22/2002 11:22:39 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: tracer
Sorry, I'm a little slow, tracer. I think I get your joke now.

So I guess the next question is "How long can YOU tread water?"

48 posted on 11/22/2002 11:26:01 AM PST by far sider
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To: Aquinasfan
I am aware of other flood stories in ancient cultures. Though one could think that flood stories are a natural for cultures to hand down from generation to generation with each generation adding their own embelishments until it is finally written and becomes unchangeable. This, however, does not make them the literal truth. We still tell stories of a tornado that happened over 25 years ago. Most are true but who knows in a hundred years how the stories may have changed.
49 posted on 11/22/2002 11:27:18 AM PST by Investment Biker
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To: Delbert
Interesting site...thanks for posting.
50 posted on 11/22/2002 11:28:38 AM PST by dubyagee
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