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Canada to U.S.: Mind your business (Jerk Alert)
Canada.com ^ | 11/21/02 | Robert Fife

Posted on 11/21/2002 2:02:50 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat

PRAGUE -- Defence Minister John McCallum bluntly told George W. Bush yesterday to stop lecturing Canada about increased defence spending after the U.S. president urged the federal government and the NATO allies to boost their military budgets to confront new international threats from terrorism and rogue states.

The Bush administration, particularly through Paul Cellucci, its ambassador to Canada, has been calling on Canada to increase defence spending and to purchase new heavy-lift aircraft so it does not have to rely on the U.S. to transport Canadian troops.

Mr. McCallum said yesterday he is fed up with the Americans hectoring Canada about its low defence expenditures, even though he himself has been publicly lobbying for greater military spending.

"I would not urge the president of the United States or the U.S. ambassador to Canada to do my job to ask for more defence spending. I think that is a Canadian matter," Mr. McCallum told reporters.

He added: "I think a number of Canadians were a little bit ticked off when the ambassador keeps pushing."

"It is a made-in-Canada decision, so while Mr. Bush may be asking for what I am asking for, I am not asking for his help."

On the eve of today's opening of the 19-member NATO summit in the Czech capital, Mr. Bush made an impassioned appeal for the western alliance to strengthen its military "to confront terror camps in remote regions or hidden laboratories of outlawed regimes."

Mr. Bush said NATO needs to develop new capabilities, including a 21,000-member rapid reaction force, more special forces, better precision weapons and more modern command structures if it is to win the war against global terrorism and rogue states, like Iraq.

The president did not directly name Canada, but it has the third-lowest military budget in the NATO alliance, spending more than only Luxembourg and Iceland, which does not have a military.

"NATO forces must be better able to fight side by side. Those forces must be more mobile and more swiftly deployed," he told the Atlantic Youth Council. "For some alliance members, this will require higher defence spending. For all of us, it will require more effective defence spending with each nation having the tools and technology to fight and win a new kind of war."

At a later news conference, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien would not comment on Mr. Bush's appeal, other than to say he would like to pump more money into the military, but the government has many other priorities.

"Me too, I would like to spend more money on defence. I'd like to spend more money on everything, but we have to make these decisions when come the budget," he said.

Earlier in the day, a senior Canadian official, who asked not to be identified, called Mr. Bush "a moron" because of his efforts to push the war against Iraq to the top of NATO's agenda. The summit was to focus on expansion and moderation of the alliance, but Mr. Bush has used his clout to make Iraq the dominant issue at the meeting.

NATO Secretary General Lord George Robertson and the Liberal-dominated defence committees of the House of Commons and the Senate have all deplored Canada's $12-billion military budget, which represents only 1.1 per cent of gross domestic product spending, half the NATO average of 2.13.

But Canadian officials argued the "pure GDP numbers is a pretty crude indicator" of Canada's military capabilities, noting the Canadian military has played a role in almost every major United Nations or NATO operation from Bosnia to the war in Afghanistan.

Mr. Chrétien also picked up on that theme, saying the Americans appreciate the role that Canada has played in operations around the world.

"The Americans always compliment when we participate with them. When we were in Kosovo, we were the third country with the greatest number of sorties and we were complimented by everyone there by the effectiveness of our troops. We did the same thing in Bosnia. In Afghanistan, our troops did very well," he said.

Mr. Bush said NATO, devised as a static defence against the former Soviet Union, is outdated and its military forces are incapable of responding quickly to military threats outside Europe, such as Afghanistan.

"When forces were needed quickly to operate in Afghanistan, NATO's options were limited," he said.

"The allies need more special operations forces, better precision strike capabilities and more modern command structures. Few NATO members will have state-of-the-art capabilities in all of these areas, I recognize that, but every nation should develop some."

The Senate defence committee recently called for a $4-billion annual increase in the Armed Forces budget, while Liberal MPs on the Commons defence committee have urged the prime minister not to sacrifice Canada's military to fund a social agenda.

But officials close to Mr. Chrétien say he's reluctant to approve a substantial boost in spending for Canada's Armed Forces, preferring to pump money from the federal surplus into social programs and infrastructure improvements for cities.

Mr. McCallum has been seeking a modest increase in the defence budget of $1 billion and is prepared to find savings of up to $250 million from within the Defence department, sources say.

Since 1994, the government has reduced defence spending by 23 per cent and cut the Forces' regular personnel to 57,000 from 87,600 in 1990. Canada has the world's 54th-largest military and 77th-largest reserve force, even though it has the 34th-largest population and is a member of the Group of Seven industrialized nations.

A bevy of military analysts, most recently the Council on Canadian Security in the 21st Century and the Atlantic Institute, have also warned Canada is at risk of being unable to defend itself unless it increases spending. Military experts say Canada needs to double its equipment budget to $3.5 billion annually just to replace aging equipment.

Behind the scenes, Defence department officials readily acknowledge that military capability has suffered while other allies, in particular the United States, have made substantial improvements.


TOPICS: Canada; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bush; terrorism
This jackass should be sacked. Who the HELL are you gonna call, Minister McCallum, if and/or when the terrorists of Al Qaeda strike in your heartland??

This man is an irresponsible clown who obviously doesn't recognize the need to beef up defense.

What's the problem here? George W. Bush is saying Canada needs to be better prepared?? This is what irks him? Please, Canadian conservatives, tell me you don't want him to remain in office.

1 posted on 11/21/2002 2:02:50 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Hosehead.
2 posted on 11/21/2002 2:04:09 PM PST by mountaineer
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Lest there be any question, I was referring to Mr. McCallum in my previous post.
3 posted on 11/21/2002 2:07:14 PM PST by mountaineer
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To: Recovering_Democrat
they don't want him in office but can't make up their minds between Progressive Conservative and Canadian Alliance.
4 posted on 11/21/2002 2:09:57 PM PST by arielb
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Bush should coment on how Saskatchewan, Manitoba plus the Yukon Territory would make good US states if this guy doesn't shut up.
5 posted on 11/21/2002 2:14:24 PM PST by Centurion2000
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Canada will simply avoid attacks by Islamic Terrorists by saying in public that the US and Israel is the enemies of peace. Ignore terrorist cells in their country as long as they attack the US and not Canada. That way they do not have to incurr the cost of defence and use the money for cradle to grave socialist programs. When they get into trouble, they simply ask the US to save them. And we are dumb enough to do it.
6 posted on 11/21/2002 2:17:59 PM PST by Fee
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To: Recovering_Democrat
I am glad I dont pay taxes in the Great White North anymore...At least my tax money is going to a REAL goverment and a REAL military here in the USA...not the french prince's gong show in Ottawa, and their brigades of boy/girl scouts they call the Armed Forces.
7 posted on 11/21/2002 2:18:32 PM PST by MD_Willington_1976
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To: All
Sure, Canada, and we'll close all of our northern border crossings to commercial traffic, to observe your request to the letter. They would be in a depression before the end of the year.....
8 posted on 11/21/2002 2:26:57 PM PST by Malcolm
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To: Recovering_Democrat
The Bush administration, particularly through Paul Cellucci, its ambassador to Canada, has been calling on Canada to increase defence spending and to purchase new heavy-lift aircraft so it does not have to rely on the U.S. to transport Canadian troops.

Hahahaha ... that's funny. The U.S. carts around the Canadians on US Military airplanes, and then their minister calls our President a moron. What the hell is going on with these a^^holes up in Canada? Somebody once told me how much Canada spends on Military equipment, and it was absolutely absurd. It was next to nothing.

Why don't they just come out and say: we don't have to spend anything on Military Defense, heck, we don't even need a military, because the U.S. will shield and protect us? Huh? Well, for one thing, that wouldn't be very good morale for the Canadians, and second, if they spend all of their money on Military defenses, they wouldn't have anything left for Ice Machines and Hockey skates.
9 posted on 11/21/2002 2:35:29 PM PST by rs79bm
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Hey, Mr. Minister, we're only protecting our investment.....
10 posted on 11/21/2002 2:36:47 PM PST by tracer
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To: Recovering_Democrat
We Westerners tell the liberals that all the time, but they only seem to listen to Ontarians and Quebeckers.
11 posted on 11/21/2002 2:39:52 PM PST by Argh
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To: Recovering_Democrat
The US has been pulling the weight for the panty waisted libs north of the border for quite some time now. Canada knows damn good and well that they don't even need a military because if they get into trouble they can just come whining to the US to bail their sorry asses out. Now, a US diplomat DARES to point it out and they are offended? Kiss my red, white and blue A$%.
12 posted on 11/21/2002 2:41:39 PM PST by mfreddy
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Isn't Canada a Socialist Country filled with liberal robots?
13 posted on 11/21/2002 2:42:23 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Recovering_Democrat
btt
14 posted on 11/21/2002 2:45:28 PM PST by Cacique
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To: TLBSHOW
Isn't Canada a Socialist Country filled with liberal robots?

Was last time i looked !

15 posted on 11/21/2002 2:58:34 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Isn't it terrible that Canada is nominally independent?
16 posted on 11/21/2002 3:03:54 PM PST by NealLism
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To: Centurion2000
Bush should coment on how Saskatchewan, Manitoba plus the Yukon Territory would make good US states if this guy doesn't shut up.

I'd take BC and Alberta too, but we'll have to expel the hop-heads and other weirdos from Vancouver, first. Going by the Albertans I know, Alberta would declare the annexation day a state holiday.

17 posted on 11/21/2002 3:07:19 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: NealLism
Yeah. They're so independent that they're dependent on us for their own defense. Right.
18 posted on 11/21/2002 3:12:41 PM PST by Green Knight
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Sure, we'll leave you alone. Then when Canada turns into Canadistan and you come back to us begging that we help you get rid of the Muslim infection you have, well, gee, I guess we'll just keep right on minding our own business, eh?

Hoser.

19 posted on 11/21/2002 3:17:52 PM PST by Lassiter
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To: Recovering_Democrat

Canadian power.

20 posted on 11/21/2002 3:43:00 PM PST by Undertow
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To: mountaineer
Hosehead.

....and a country of freeloaders, eh?

21 posted on 11/21/2002 3:47:09 PM PST by Rockitz
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To: Recovering_Democrat
They're not even a real country anyway.
22 posted on 11/21/2002 3:51:55 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Recovering_Democrat
This jackass should be sacked.

Which one?

NATO successfully completed its mission with the collapse of the old Soviet Union.
At that time, it should have been ceremoniously disbanded with victorious praise and celebration.
It should NEVER have been permitted to "reinvent" itself as some kind of global police force.
Sadly, NATO has become what it was once intended to defend against.

23 posted on 11/21/2002 3:53:10 PM PST by Willie Green
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To: Recovering_Democrat
I had the misfortune to have to conduct business at a Ford Plant near Toronto some years ago. While at lunch one day, one loud mouth canadian jerk mouthed off about how the canadians had to know U.S. history, but we didn't need to know theirs. I advised him that I did know canadian history. I advised him that I knew that my country had bailed canada and her allies out in two world wars. I also advised him that I knew that it was our aircraft and ships that provided security for canada so it could pursue its socialist policies. He agreed not to lecture me about my lack of knowledge of his country's history after that lesson.
24 posted on 11/21/2002 3:55:31 PM PST by RushLake
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To: Recovering_Democrat
So ez another slave for the mullahs. Canada has become Canuckistan.
25 posted on 11/21/2002 3:56:13 PM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: All
geez,do you guys hate all the commonwealth nations this much?lol,maybe im in the wrong place.
26 posted on 11/21/2002 3:59:57 PM PST by way_south_redneck
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To: sheik yerbouty
"Sex'(Brooklynese)
27 posted on 11/21/2002 4:00:42 PM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: sheik yerbouty
I'm a spaz today "sez"
28 posted on 11/21/2002 4:01:56 PM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: Recovering_Democrat
QUOTE OF THE DAY!!!!!!! I would like to spend more money on defence. I'd like to spend more money on everything, but we have to make these decisions when come the budget
29 posted on 11/21/2002 5:30:24 PM PST by Blackyce
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To: Recovering_Democrat
The president did not directly name Canada, but it has the third-lowest military budget in the NATO alliance, spending more than only Luxembourg and Iceland, which does not have a military.

Canada has the luxury of calling the President of the United States a "moron" for urging that she prepare to defend herself because she exists comfortably in America's shadow. Her citizens know that if anything really, really bad happened, the U.S. would not let nations on our borders collapse and fall prey to a hostile nation.

I recall during the start of the Afghanistan campaign having a few conversations with irate Canadian patriots who boasted about the prowess of their snipers, and how Canada did put lives on the line in support of the U.S.. They said this even though Canadian officials essentially said that the U.S. brought 9/11 on itself, and reassured Canadian citizens that they have nothing to fear because their country wasn't like the nasty, imperial, war-mongering Americans.

I'm just a little guy who can't dictate American policy, but I will urge my President and congress men & women to scrape NAFTA. I will also add Canadian products to my personal boycott list (along with China).

Regardless of how good Canadian snipers are (both of them) or how good their Navy is (a couple of coastal Frigates with a pop gun), or how dominating her third-world quality air force (a couple of Cessna's and an F5 or two), the fact is that if the U.S. ever needed Canadian help, it just wouldn't be there. It would take Canada years to mobilize and supply her troops, and in today's environment, that's way too late. They'd have to deploy on commercial airliners to secure airports, and hitch hike to the war front.

I take the Canadian's at their word. They are socialists first and foremost, and delight in not being American's friends (unless socialist comrades run the White House and Capital Hill). I SO appreciate Mr. McCallum and the anonymous (re: cowardly) "senior Canadian official" for reminding Americans of the truth about our "relationship".

FReegards, SFS

30 posted on 11/21/2002 6:20:30 PM PST by Steel and Fire and Stone
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To: Right Wing Professor; Centurion2000; Recovering_Democrat
Bush should coment on how Saskatchewan, Manitoba plus the Yukon Territory would make good US states if this guy doesn't shut up.

PING, for an Imperial America!

31 posted on 11/21/2002 6:24:17 PM PST by Steel and Fire and Stone
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: NealLism
The weirdest part of this story is that Canada is so egocentric that when Bush says, in general terms while in Europe, that NATO members need to spend more on armed forces, it must be all about THEM.

In fact, Canada has a pretty good record recently in the WOT despite their low spending (as the article points out); what counts is they've been willing to use their soldiers, unlike Germany and probably most of Europe. But why should they get so defensive (and indeed, act like morons themselves) about Bush wanting to discuss NATO spending at a NATO expansion meeting? Sounds like guilt to me.

33 posted on 11/21/2002 6:36:15 PM PST by DWPittelli
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To: Steel and Fire and Stone
Why would we want Canadian territory? The US is the 4th largest nation in the world. We've got plenty of land. It's much simpler for the Canadians who like us to move down to the lower 48 anyway. Absorbtion of Canada would benefit Canadians far more than it would Americans, like East Germany benefited more than West Germany from their union in 1990. No, most Americans have NO designs on Canada. In fact, if a province wanted to join the Union, we would have to negotiate with Canada, Britain, etc. It's easier for Canadians who like the US just to vote with their feet. Makes the US more conservative, and Canada more leftist anyway.....
34 posted on 11/21/2002 6:37:48 PM PST by Malcolm
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To: Recovering_Democrat
I'd like to spend more money on everything, but we have to make these decisions when come the budget,"

CI didn't realize Canada had funding problems. Heck, I hear they have free medical 'care'. Without defense what good is it?

35 posted on 11/21/2002 6:51:48 PM PST by plain talk
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To: Recovering_Democrat
This bs has got to stop. 80% of canadians saying 9/11 is our fault?? I sincerly hope that some day one of these socialists says something of this nature in my presence. =]
36 posted on 11/21/2002 8:08:38 PM PST by Stakka Skynet
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To: Centurion2000
Bush should coment on how Saskatchewan, Manitoba plus the Yukon Territory would make good US states if this guy doesn't shut up

I've always enjoyed the game of Risk. I liked the board version but I really like the computer version.

It just feels, well, natural, right, correct an obvious wrong kinda thing - when ever I get the chance to kick ass and take over Canada and Mexico.

One Nation, under God......

Sorry if I have offended anyone with my Napoleanic fetish.

Giggle. Snicker.

Mexico has no military. And we have to haul the Canuck's military ass into combat.

Oh Canada, Oh...say can you see....

Just late night ramblings

LVM

37 posted on 11/21/2002 9:29:50 PM PST by LasVegasMac
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To: LasVegasMac
It should be noted that the opposition PM in Canada, Jason Kenney, denounced Chretien for this latest round of left-wing Canuck foolishness. Good to know not every Canadian is a hockey-puck-brained socialist. Perhaps we can trade Daschle for him.
38 posted on 11/22/2002 5:23:16 AM PST by Callahan
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To: Malcolm
I once saw a poll that said 20% of Canadians in the middle provinces wanted to apply for U.S. statehood. I suggest we trade a passle of liberals for these right-minded Canucks.
39 posted on 11/22/2002 5:28:29 AM PST by Callahan
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To: plain talk
To hear liberals like Michael Moore and Molly Ivins talk, Canada is human civilization's most perfect society. Makes you wonder why they don't get the hell out of the "evil" U.S. instead of annoying the people who like it here.
40 posted on 11/22/2002 5:32:34 AM PST by Callahan
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To: DWPittelli
Could be that, with US deporting Canadian citizens back to the Middle East and with US not acknowledging the role Canadian soldiers played in Afghanistan, they're a bit hyper-Canuck-sensitive...
41 posted on 11/22/2002 8:10:26 AM PST by NealLism
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To: Green Knight
And the best way to keep them dependent is to insult them....
42 posted on 11/22/2002 8:11:06 AM PST by NealLism
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To: Recovering_Democrat
...to ask for more defence spending. I think that is a Canadian matter," Mr. McCallum told reporters.

Then it is also an American matter to make the decision to stop ferrying their sorry, candy-ass troops all over the world so they can get in our way. I'm against all our interventionism all over the world, but if we're going to do it, I don't want my tax dollars going to make the sorry Canadians feel special by shipping their fairies all over the place, so they can pretend they're helping us. We need to start ignoring our socialist, brain-dead neighbor.

We should buy their lumber, sell them cotton and sugar, but tell them they're pathetic and we don't need their political/military "help." Nor will we guarantee to protect them or their interests anywhere in the world.

Canada is the ultimate sissy nation, even in a sissy age.

43 posted on 11/22/2002 8:18:50 AM PST by agrandis
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To: DWPittelli
But why should they get so defensive (and indeed, act like morons themselves) about Bush wanting to discuss NATO spending at a NATO expansion meeting?

Because Canada is the only country that the US relentlessly bugs both publically and through diplomatic channels about its military budget. Everyone in NATO knew which country Bush was referring to since the US doesn't make heavy demands of, say, the Greek or Portuguese military.

44 posted on 11/23/2002 9:33:42 PM PST by Black Powder
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