Posted on 11/25/2002 9:25:16 PM PST by Tuco-bad
It is better to ignore them - they will never change their positions.
I have a great deal of respect for President Bush and truly wish for as much success as possible whatever he and his adminstration attempt. I can and will continue to criticize what I consider to be dumb moves. I still want him to win and the goons to loose.
Ah, so you agree.
AND A PARANOID DELUSION
Way more apt.
Wow a liberal in a snit. What else is new?
And you will?
Well now, that is refreshing. Cole Porter was stoned "...morning, noon and night..."
but he did write some great ones.
Sometimes positions changed based on that debate - other times individuals agreed to disagree - civilly. Friendships were made and issues were discussed - civilly. In fact, when I first discovered FReeRepublic, I had a position that I was forced to examine by none other than Jim Robinson and several other posters.
Being a former police officer turned attorney, I was an enthusiastic supporter of the WOD and Asset Forfeiture - as well as Law Enforcement generally. However, I am an unapologetic Second Amendment activist as well. These individuals confronted me with the Constitutional infirmities that exist with respect to asset forfeiture, and to a lesser extent the WOD and Law Enforcement - especially where the constitutional and policy arguments I offered as support I for my positions on the WOD/Asset Forfeiture placed me squarely in the anti-gun camp. After much debate and reflection, I acknowledged that I had not thought through the entire asset forfeiture issue and changed my position.
I am still a supporter of Law Enforcement - as I will always be a police officer at heart. However, I came to remember, with these posters help, that WE are the bosses of the police and they exist to serve us. Criticism is our responsiblity and Right. Blind support of actions taken by Government on our behalf allows tyranny. Similarly, they helped me re-examine the WOD, reminding me that which I had come to learn through my time on the street - you can't legislate behavior modification, and we should be pursuing policies that allow individuals to make individual choices regarding their lives while also holding them accountable for those decisions without involving other taxpayers/citizens. It was a lively and rewarding exchange of ideas that truly made me happy to have found this forum.
Such an atmosphere does not exist here anymore. When confronted with logic and facts that refute positions taken by this new crop of posters, these people resort to the afore-mentioned personal attacks. The days of civil debate are long gone - as are the days of logic.
The forum has changed so drastically that most of the posters who helped me understand my incongruent stances on these issues have died (God Bless you and yours HeavyD - I pinged you 'cause I know you are still lurking...), been run off or just lurk. Jim remains strangely silent when people are attacked by this new crop, even though they truly do hurt the forum by alienating many individuals who happen to drop by and are repulsed by the behavior of these posters.
It is a shame.
I think there were a lot more personal attacks 3-4 years ago.
The personal attacks don't bother me so much. I try to argue my position and if someone personally attacks me then to me they've shown what they are and I just don't debate with them. I try to keep my integrity. Hard to do sometimes.
And before I go I'd like to wish everybody a very Happy Thanksgiving!
Exactly. Having performed entry as the 1st or 2nd man through the door on somewhere between 20 and 30 of them I used to be a big supporter of them. After seeing how many innocent people have been killed over the last 5 years (my time at FR) I have also adopted your position.
Reflecting on one entry in particular, where an individual that was not supposed to be in the house appeared from a room that supposedly did not exist (bad snitch information - either deliberate or just an above-average moronic snitch I don't know) jumped out at me in a karate stance and was subdued after about a 30 second struggle I had a "veteran" officer ask me why I didn't shoot him. My answer was "he was unarmed and I reacted according to me martial arts traing." (front kick to the chest delelivered while at a dead run turns out to be pretty devastating)
His response - "you should have shot him."
This incident, in light of all the news stories, really brings home to me why a good conservative needs to get involved and supervise police activities. Throwing up your hands and saying "well, it would have been one less doper" is not what this country is all about - nor would a true conservative make that statement - but a Fascist would.
That guy did not deserve to be executed because he was awakened at 0300 to his door being smashed in and goes to investigate - nor does any officer have the authority to execute him because he jumps into a room in a karate stance. Had the average officer shot him they would have been justified - he didn't respond to any verbal commands and taking on a martial arts expert (and you can't know what you are dealing with at the time) is a dangerous endeavor. Such a situation would cause fear of death or serious bodily injury in any reasonable officer. My situation was a little different, being a student myself, but still I could have articulated why my fear was reasonable. However, I wasn't afraid. So I would have had to lie to justify a shooting. But more importantly, the blanket attitude of "you should have shot him" indicates a bloodthirsty desire to take a life and the opinion that I wasted an opportunity. That disgusts me.
And you can bet that some posters here would have no problem with killing the dumb sh#t - voicing much the same attitude...sad.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. May the Lord Bless you and Keep you.
This is getting off subject but it shows the need for officers to be (and probably have to do it themselves, on their own time) martial artists themselves.
I went to a law enforcement school 2 weeks ago and we had to give a 50 minute talk. Mine was on self-defense and the carotid choke hold, which I'm a firm believer in.
It's been my experience that most people who jump into some type of fighting stance when I confront them don't know any martial arts, they're just trying one last chance at intimidation. Most people who know something don't like to telegraph it.
Well, I'm rambling again, take care and go easy on the Guinness! :-)
And where do You think this post is coming from?
Seriously, this thread was started in jest.
BTW - I believe that Ashcroft actions will overall benefit the people.
Unfortunately, because of our open borders policy, I believe these policies will be in force my entire lifetime.
Still don't have the tools to defend your position honestly.. so you continue with the silly personal insults and smears...
Some things never change.
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