These Victims Are People, Too - What hate crimes have wrought.

National Review Online ^ | 11/26/02 | Rod Dreher

[sinkspur]

Maybe no one really cares - not even on this forum - about the murder of a Catholic woman at the hands of a homosexual man.

I'm not sure what you want "the voices of orthodoxy" to do or say. Once you condemn the murder, then what?

[Polycarp]

Where are my much loved "voices of orthodoxy" - why aren't they condemning this and banging pots and pans together until this evil is exposed for all the nation to see?

Maybe no one really cares - not even on this forum - about the murder of a Catholic woman at the hands of a homosexual man.

Hi Bernadette,

See this thread, Woman Murdered After Witnessing to Homosexual; TEEN STABS DEVOUT CATHOLIC TO DEATH, consisting of four separate articles about this poor Catholic woman's martyrdom. I posted it 11/21/02, and it had 168 posts. It might be worth reading through it, if you have not seen it yet.

God Bless. Please give Siobhan my regards, and assure her of our continued prayers.

--Brian

*****

Bumping.

Catholic Caucus,

How can we further expose this martyrdom? This is an important, bellweather event in the Church, one of our first public martyrdoms in the fight against this sinister homosexual agenda.

[sinkspur]

How can we further expose this martyrdom? This is an important, bellweather event in the Church, one of our first public martyrdoms in the fight against this sinister homosexual agenda.

Is part of the homosexual agenda to murder Catholics? I just want to be clear as to how you're reading what I believe is an isolated incident.

[Polycarp]

Its no more or less an isolated incident that "hate crimes" against homos, which is the point. "Hate crimes" against homos are trumpeted in headlines nationwide repeatedly. Similar crimes by homos aginst the innocent are met with media censorship.

In a world where the martyrdom of a faithful Catholic is censored from national headlines by media silence, I do think more such events will occur.

On top of the homicide of the souls of many thousands of innocent teenage boys via homopederasty, which is an integral part of the homosexual subculture.

You do not think this martyrdom of a faithful Catholic woman should have received more widespread coverage?

Are you now joining the sycophantic chorus blaming the woman not the homosexual for violating the "homos' rights", expressed by your comments, Why not just leave gays alone? Gays don't "have to change."

Are you too saying its wrong for Catholics to minister to homos? Or that if they try, they too should "logically" anticipate being slashed to death and stuffed into a crawlspace?

Obviously, I'm making an unfair caricature of your comments.

However, your own flippant attitute in the face of this faithful Catholic's martyrdom while preaching the Gospel is troubling at best. Bernadette's dismay is warranted. Your making light of it is not.

[JMJ333]

So many on this are missing the most important point: the point is that a Catholic woman was tortured and killed by a homosexual man and almost no one is shouting mad about this. Where are the Cardinals, the USCCB, the priests in their pulpits, the K of C, the 3rd Orders, the laity in the pews (or chairs, as the case may be)? Where are my much loved "voices of orthodoxy" - why aren't they condemning this and banging pots and pans together until this evil is exposed for all the nation to see?

Maybe no one really cares - not even on this forum - about the murder of a Catholic woman at the hands of a homosexual man.

You are definitely your ma's girl! I care! I am banging the proverbial pots and pans to anyone who will listen to me on any number of topics concering Catholics!

But be prepared Bernadette....strap on your seatbelt and get ready for persecutions of even greater magnitude. Pray hard.

And give me luv to Siobhan.

[sinkspur]

I ask an innocent question, and, in your inimitable style, you go off, half-cocked. My friend, you really do need to learn to dialogue with people. Your hostile response to a simple question reveals more about you than it does about me.

You do not think this martyrdom of a faithful Catholic woman should have received more widespread coverage?

It should have received much more coverage.

Are you now joining the sycophantic chorus blaming the woman not the homosexual for violating the "homos' rights", expressed by your comments, Why not just leave gays alone? Gays don't "have to change."

See what I mean about your hyperbolic style? You put words in people's mouths. I don't blame the woman for anything. OTOH, if a gay is not bothering you, why not just leave him alone?

Are you too saying its wrong for Catholics to minister to homos?

Other Catholics can do whatever they are motivated to do. I don't get in other people's faces unless they are threatening me or my family directly.

Or that if they try, they too should "logically" anticipate being slashed to death and stuffed into a crawlspace?

Pure hysteria.

Obviously, I'm making an unfair caricature of your comments.

Yes. This is something you often do, and not just to me.

However, your own flippant attitute in the face of this faithful Catholic's martyrdom while preaching the Gospel is troubling at best. Bernadette's dismay is warranted. Your making light of it is not.

Where was I "flippant"? Just because I don't "evangelize" by correcting other people, by seeking out "sinners" and telling them they are sinners, you assume I don't care about any of this.

You are an activist. I am not. You organize whatever crusade you feel you need to to respond to this outrage. I'll support you.

Another poster on this website said last night that the only way we're going to rid the world of Islam is to "shove the crucifix in the faces of the Islamics."

You and he can storm the barricades if you wish.

In return for gays staying out of my face, I don't get in theirs.

[Polycarp]

But be prepared Bernadette....strap on your seatbelt and get ready for persecutions of even greater magnitude

LOL! One nice thing about being Catholic...When you're equally hated by the liberals, homosexual activists, abortionists, population controllers, the UN, feminists, agnostics, atheists, communists, etc, as well as the fundamentalists and bible only folks, you know ya' just gotta be doing something right.

(See the top of my profile page for the kind of love and respect {/sarcasm} you can expect to find just from your fellow "Christians" on the Forum ;-)

[Polycarp]

You are an activist. I am not. You organize whatever crusade you feel you need to to respond to this outrage. I'll support you.

Fair enouigh. The knee jerk reactions I got on the thread I posted about this on 11/21/02 may have made me a little touchy towards your response too. My apologies, I should know better, Sink.

Have a Blessed Thanksgiving.

[Polycarp]

By the way, this is our latest local battle, so again forgu\ive me for my kneejerk reaction.

LAW OF THE LAND
Pennsylvania House
OKs 'gay' rights
Will pastors be targeted for preaching against homosexuality?

---

Posted: November 28, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Felicia Dionisio
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

Pennsylvania lawmakers have passed legislation that gives homosexuals specific, statewide legal protection for the first time, prompting some to predict that pastors in the state will now be targeted for preaching against the "gay" lifestyle.

The bill, which passed the House on Tuesday by a vote of 118 to 79, adds ''ancestry, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation, gender or gender identity'' to the state's Ethnic Intimidation law, which already raises the grade of crimes motivated by hatred against victims because of their race, color, religion or national origin.

According to a report in the Harrisburg Patriot-News, the vote came after a 90-minute debate in which opponents argued the proposal violates the principle of "equal justice for all."

''With this law, we're stripping away the blindfold which has been used for centuries to indicate that Lady Justice doesn't see the person who committed the crime but is only considering the facts,'' said Rep. Allan Egolf, R-Landisburg.

''We should be looking at the crime ... not trying to decide what the thoughts were of the perpetrator,'' he added.

Rep. Sam Rohrer, R-Berks, said that it's too difficult for law enforcement to determine how broadly the new terms under ethnic intimidation can be applied.

Opponents worry the law could be enforced too liberally to include, among other things, preachers quoting passages from the Bible against homosexual activity.

William Devlin, of the Urban Family Council, sees it the same way.

''We would strongly encourage pastors, churches and church leadership across Pennsylvania to obtain some very good liability insurance and contact an attorney if the pastor intends to continue faithfully preaching the Word,'' Devlin told WorldNetDaily.

He says although hate-crimes legislation isn't unusual, a bill that specifically mentions speech and verbal harassment with ''malicious intent'' is unusual.

''This bill is so broad, that if you have an attender at your church who feels offended or intimidated by what is said from the pulpit, you and your church leadership will be receiving certified letters inviting you to either a deposition or a court appearance,'' he said.

Devlin also tells WorldNetDaily he finds it curious the bill was promoted by conservative Republicans.

Stewart Greenleaf, the chair of the Pennsylvania Senate Judiciary Committee, personally guided the legislation. According to Devlin, Greenleaf is a born-again Christian and former deacon in the Presbyterian Church of America.

Devlin says House Majority Leader John Perzel, who's known as a conservative, pro-family Republican, also helped clear the way for the bill's passage.

Advocates say Pennsylvania now has the most inclusive legislation of this kind in the country and hailed the legislature's action as a breakthrough for principles of tolerance and social justice.

''Our allies have shown that they recognize the importance of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in this commonwealth,'' said Stacey L. Sobel, executive director of the Philadelphia-based Center for Lesbian and Gay Civil Rights.

''We are taxpayers. We work in Pennsylvania and we have families here,'' Sobel said. ''This law acknowledges the importance of our communities and the fact that our state will not tolerate violence against homosexuals merely because of who they are."

The bill, which passed the Senate last year, 32-15, now heads for the desk of Gov. Mark Schweiker, who has promised to sign it.

---

Felicia Dionisio is an assistant news editor with WorldNetDaily.com.

[B Knotts]

I don't think it's that no one cares; we do. We just don't know what we can do about it. The media are generally extremely biased against Catholics, and are pro-homosexual.

So, what can we do? I've emailed O'Reilly about the media blackout on this, but he'll probably ignore it.

[JMJ333]

We do take it from all sides don't we!? And isn't it amazing that we continue to grow despite all of those against us? Take that haters! LOL!

Happy Thanksgiving to you too. I myself have eaten, napped, and eaten again. ;)

[Siobhan]

What do you do when a Catholic woman is martyred before our eyes here in our nation?

To start with: We tell her story, we remember her story, we shake politicians with her story, we lift up her story to our prelates, clergy, religious, and laity. We tell everyone we know about her story. We print sheets with the story of her torture and murder and martyrdom to hand out at Mass or in the mall or on the subway or the train.

We contact anyone who might advance the news of her martyrdom whether it is Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity or local news outlets. Demand accountability from homosexuals and their media outlets and blogs. If they embrace violence against Catholics, then we denounce them as terrorists.

That's for starters.

Bernadette.

[Siobhan]

God bless you and thank you very much indeed. Much worse is to come to be sure. But while we have voice (or pots and pans), let's keep sounding the cry.

Siobhan looks like an angel. I look like the washerwoman. But Siobhan and I are cut from similar cloth in temperment and in many ways we are both our Ma's and our Da's girls.

Bernadette.

[Siobhan]

Thank you for directing me to that thread, Brian. Happy Thanksgiving night to you all. Siobhan sends her love and best wishes.

Bernadette.

[Salvation]

**When a homosexual tortures and kills a Catholic woman, why isn't that news? And why aren't we all sounding every available alarm?**

Good question, Bernadette. How was the Thanksgiving? I certainly pray that Sibhan continues to mend.

[Salvation]

**How can we further expose this martyrdom?**

Keep bumping this thread.

Write a letter to the editor in your paper.

Write a letter to the editor in the home town paper where this happened.

Contact the Arch/bishop in that area and the media office thereof.

Let me think about some more. LOL!

[Salvation]

**One nice thing about being Catholic...When you're equally hated by the liberals, homosexual activists, abortionists, population controllers, the UN, feminists, agnostics, atheists, communists, etc, as well as the fundamentalists and bible only folks, you know ya' just gotta be doing something right.**

This is worth standing on the rooftops and shouting to all of humanity. This is exactly why people bash the Catholic Church. We take a stand on a subject and then continue to stand and speak our message.

Praise be to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

[Salvation]

**I've emailed O'Reilly about the media blackout on this, but he'll probably ignore it.**

Don't count on it. I've sent him things that got covered.

How about sending it to newswatch @foxnews.com

They critique the news coverage!!

[mlmr]

We have press conferences. Start organizations like Fairness for Victims or some such name and call reporters and hand them press releases with points about what happened and how a hate crime happened and a minority is being persecuted and hounded to death here and world wide.

[Siobhan]

It's me Finn. We had a good Thanksgiving. My mother is mending and healing. God bless you for asking.