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Kids, guns and Dr. Phil: Larry Elder exposes how pop psychologist distorted firearm statistics
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Thursday, November 28, 2002 -- Happy Thanksgiving! | Larry Elder

Posted on 11/27/2002 11:17:48 PM PST by JohnHuang2

Move over Mr. Anti-Second Amendment Michael Moore, and make way for Dr. Phil. Dr. Phil recently aired a program in which he staged an experiment to demonstrate the danger of guns in the home. Amid a group of playing little girls and boys, a teacher placed two fake guns inside a dollhouse. The teacher warned the kids not to play with the guns, and then left the room. The mindful girls left the guns alone even after the teacher left the room.

The experimenters took the girls out of the room. The boys promptly began playing with the guns. Dr. Phil came in, warned the boys again, and after eliciting a promise not to play with the guns, which he put on a table, he left the room. Again, the boys promptly began playing with the guns. Moral to the story? Guns in the home and children – especially boys – simply don't mix. Never mind that responsible parents rarely leave guns, let alone loaded ones, inside a girl's dollhouse or on a table near the children.

Dr. Phil said, "America kills more kids with guns than any other industrialized nation," later adding, "There are five children a day killed with guns through either accidents or suicides. Five children a day in America are killed with guns." The five children per day figure adds up to over 1,800 per year.

Hold tape.

Dr. Phil never defined what he meant by "children." Independence Institute researcher Dave Kopel notes that many of the reported gun deaths involving "children" include those aged 14 through 19, many of them gangbangers. If, by children, Dr. Phil meant 10 and under, approximately 50 children – or less than one child per state per year under 10 – die from handgun violence.

Dr. Phil specifically said gun "accidents and suicides." Yet the Center for Disease Control, which tracks all causes of death, reports only 86 accidental deaths in kids aged 14-years-and-under in the year 2000, and 110 suicides, for a total of 198. Not exactly 1,800. (Even if Dr. Phil intended to include homicide and undetermined intent, the total of kids aged 14-and-under killed by firearms in 2000, according to the CDC, was 435.)

By contrast, the CDC reported 943 accidental drownings of kids aged 14-and-under, 593 deaths from accidental exposures to smoke and fire, and 2,591 killed in motor vehicle accidents. Surely one child dying through handgun violence – or any kind of violence – is one child too many, but we should not lose perspective.

Dr. Phil went further. In front of the largely female – and often instinctively anti-gun group – audience, Dr. Phil added this headline, "More children die from gunfire than cancer, pneumonia, flu, asthma and HIV-AIDS combined. Do you know what your child would do if he found a gun and you weren't there?"

Hold tape.

According to the CDC, the annual deaths from cancer in 2000, for children aged 14-years-and-under, was 1,939. Add in the number of 14-and-under who die every year from pneumonia and flu, at 479, plus 169 kids killed by asthma, plus 70 from HIV, and we have a grand total of 2,657, a number higher than Dr. Phil's figure of 1,800 children allegedly killed each year through handgun accidents and suicide.

As usual with programs stacked against guns, Dr. Phil failed to even address the number of children saved by handguns per year. In other words, how many kids remain with us because Mommy or Daddy – or in some cases a child – used a gun to defend the household. According to the Department of Justice, Americans use guns for defensive purposes 1.5 million times a year. And, according to the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention – a division of the Justice Department – the government found that children taught appropriate use of guns by their parents turn out to be far less likely to use those guns for criminal purposes than those without such instruction.

Recently, in South Bend, Ind., a thug broke into a home occupied by an 80-year-old grandmother and her 10-year-old grandchild. The intruder held a jagged box cutter to the grandmother's neck, at which time the 10-year-old bolted upstairs where he retrieved his father's gun, the responsible use of which his dad taught him. The 10-year-old returned, pointed the gun at the intruder, and shot and killed him. "The young man reasonably believed his grandmother and himself to be in danger of dying," the South Bend police said. "It was clear to us this was a justifiable homicide. He did what he had to do."

Some suggestions: Don't go to your gun store for psychological counseling; and don't go to a mental health therapist for advice on guns.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist
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Thursday, November 28, 2002 -- Happy Thanksgiving!

Quote of the Day by Rain-maker

1 posted on 11/27/2002 11:17:48 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: dansangel
((((((ping))))))))
2 posted on 11/28/2002 1:28:15 AM PST by .45MAN
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To: JohnHuang2
My blood pressure medication has not kicked in yet so I can't begin to comment on this low life poor excuse for a DR. I have not seen his show but I know that it needs clowns and a couple of jugglers..
3 posted on 11/28/2002 1:31:40 AM PST by .45MAN
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To: JohnHuang2
This example of mainstream-media's problem with truth, that is at the core of Gore's D@$$h01e whine, needs to be kept bumped to the top.
4 posted on 11/28/2002 2:45:30 AM PST by dhuffman@awod.com
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To: JohnHuang2
Beware of anything told you by psychologists, psychiatrists or siding salesmen.

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
New Link: Download 8 Mb zip file here (60 minute video)

5 posted on 11/28/2002 2:52:14 AM PST by JCG
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To: JohnHuang2
I'm reading Larry Elder's book Showdown and HIGHLY recommned it.
6 posted on 11/28/2002 3:31:13 AM PST by GailA
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To: JohnHuang2
Memphis has had several young children killed or wounded in the crossfire of gang bangers this year. We have a LIBERAL mayor with a ineffective police force, who refuse to deal with the gang violence, much less the run of the mill criminals.
7 posted on 11/28/2002 3:34:17 AM PST by GailA
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To: *bang_list
Bang!

Molon Labe !

8 posted on 11/28/2002 3:44:58 AM PST by TERMINATTOR
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To: JohnHuang2
The teacher warned the kids not to play with the guns, and then left the room. The mindful girls left the guns alone even after the teacher left the room.

Of course the "experiment" is fatally flawed. You don't teach gun safety by telling a child once or twice "don't touch". That is stupid.

It takes consistent exposure to guns, first to see what they can do, in order to instill proper respect. If a child is raised in the proper atmosphere, they most certainly will not go near a gun. Although, it would have made an interesting experiment to, prior to leaving them with the gun, to actually FIRE a weapon near the kids.

9 posted on 11/28/2002 4:51:18 AM PST by TomB
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To: rdb3; Khepera; elwoodp; MAKnight; condolinda; mafree; Trueblackman; FRlurker; Teacher317; ...
Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

10 posted on 11/28/2002 4:52:59 AM PST by mhking
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To: JohnHuang2
how many kids remain with us because Mommy or Daddy – or in some cases a child – used a gun to defend the household?

OK, I give up. How many? (And please cite your source.)

According to the Department of Justice, Americans use guns for defensive purposes 1.5 million times a year.

What is the specific source for this statement and how many of the 1.5 million incidents involved the defense of a child?

11 posted on 11/28/2002 5:14:34 AM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: JohnHuang2
This should be bookmarked.
12 posted on 11/28/2002 5:18:36 AM PST by waterstraat
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To: JohnHuang2
Well John

Send this to Dr. Phil.

That is how you educate the uneducated!!!

Webster defination of a child

From birth to pub, ie 13 years of age.

1997 44 accidental deaths to firearms
1998 54 accidental deaths to firearms

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide





Chicagofarmer

13 posted on 11/28/2002 5:47:06 AM PST by CHICAGOFARMER
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To: JohnHuang2
This was the November 18, 2002 show, "How Well Do You Know Your Kids".

You can go here to e-mail.

14 posted on 11/28/2002 6:27:02 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: .45MAN; dd5339; cavtrooper21
I betcha his DR is a PhD (Piled Higher and Deeper) and not an MD.
15 posted on 11/28/2002 6:58:40 AM PST by Vic3O3
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To: JohnHuang2
Is this the same Dr. Phil that was on the Oprah show? If so, that explains the distortion of facts and outright lies.
16 posted on 11/28/2002 7:16:32 AM PST by Double Tap
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To: Labyrinthos
What is the specific source for this statement and how many of the 1.5 million incidents involved the defense of a child?

He already gave you the source. If you care to look it up, go to www.guncite.com and read the text.

A better question is, what is your purpose?

17 posted on 11/28/2002 7:20:35 AM PST by Double Tap
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To: JohnHuang2
Some suggestions: Don't go to your gun store for psychological counseling; and don't go to a mental health therapist for advice on guns.

Bingo!

18 posted on 11/28/2002 7:27:28 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: Labyrinthos
What is the specific source for this statement and how many of the 1.5 million incidents involved the defense of a child?

US Department of Justice during the Clinton years. They probably weren't interested in the safety of the "chillllren" if mom and dad were doing the protecting.

19 posted on 11/28/2002 7:42:51 AM PST by Hotline
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To: mhking
Happy Thanksgiving, mhking. I am greatful for you.
20 posted on 11/28/2002 7:42:53 AM PST by Bahbah
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To: Bahbah
I am greatful for you.

Aw shucks...I'm nothing special...just a guy.

But thanks and God bless you and yours nonetheless...

21 posted on 11/28/2002 7:48:15 AM PST by mhking
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To: Vic3O3
I though phd stood for post hole digger
22 posted on 11/28/2002 8:06:15 AM PST by Ford Fairlane
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To: Labyrinthos
You come across as a leftist gun grabber. If you were just incoherent, please repost with different verbage.
23 posted on 11/28/2002 8:11:03 AM PST by zip
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: TERMINATTOR
Bump!!!
25 posted on 11/28/2002 8:39:22 AM PST by Sparta
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To: JohnHuang2
Now, why would Dr. Phil let a little something like the truth get in way.
26 posted on 11/28/2002 8:40:02 AM PST by Sparta
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To: JohnHuang2
Instead of educating the kids, maybe we should be educating the trailer trash that makes this kinda of crap-TV possible.
27 posted on 11/28/2002 8:41:55 AM PST by husky ed
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To: BOBWADE
Ping (and Happy Thanksgiving)
28 posted on 11/28/2002 8:47:35 AM PST by zip
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To: JohnHuang2
My understanding is that 'Dr. Phil' has what might be called a checkered past.

Does anyone have hard data on his background?

29 posted on 11/28/2002 8:50:35 AM PST by DWSUWF
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To: TomB
I can't speak for others, but in OUR HOUSE, our kids)ages 11and 9)have been well trained in gun safety, and enjoy shooting. Both know what happens when a gun is fired, and both know thazt a gun is ALWAYS loaded!!
I can leave a .45 laying on the living room table for 6 months and they will not touch it without my permission, if it's intheir way, they will ask me or my wife to move it.
Jack
30 posted on 11/28/2002 8:52:03 AM PST by btcusn
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To: .45MAN
" Needs clowns and a couple of jugglers."

Not really, it is already hosted by a clown that juggles the facts.
31 posted on 11/28/2002 8:53:57 AM PST by F.J. Mitchell
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
Webster defination of a child

From birth to pub, ie 13 years of age.

Another definition of "child" is anyone born of a mother. That would make us all children, rendering the statistic Dr. "Fil 'er up" cites as virtually insignificant.

32 posted on 11/28/2002 9:02:08 AM PST by brewcrew
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To: JohnHuang2
Larry covered this issue very well on his radio show late last week. If you can possibly listen to his show, do! It is great. I found it on same station in LA that played Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly programs, that was 790am in LA. If you type in http://www.hannity.com you will be able to search for a local station for Sean's show. Larry is such a great man, great thinker, great writer, freat speaker, and a very handsome man, too!!!! His show is very entertaining, also. His mom is on with him sometimes and she is so brilliant, great role model for all of us, she is!
33 posted on 11/28/2002 11:02:20 AM PST by buffyt
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To: buffyt
bttt.
34 posted on 11/28/2002 12:55:08 PM PST by Dec31,1999
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To: TomB
Absolutely! You are right on the mark with your assesment. Both of my children have been exposed not only to firearms, but to firears safety since they were two or three years old. My children know that they are never to handle firearms without an adult present and in charge (not just somewhere in the vicinity). We have also trained them in what to do if they are playing with other children at someone else's home and they discover a gun. They know they are to tell the other children to leave it alone and then immediately go and find an adult.

As with anything, it is a matter of training. We have tested them with unloaded guns "left out by accident" to see what they would do, and they make me proud.

35 posted on 11/28/2002 1:03:05 PM PST by Pablo64
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To: Ford Fairlane
"I though phd stood for post hole digger."

I believe it stands for Piled Higher and Deeper.

36 posted on 11/28/2002 1:05:48 PM PST by Pablo64
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To: JohnHuang2
Can we anything less from someone that got thier start with Oparh?
37 posted on 11/28/2002 1:22:42 PM PST by blastdad51
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To: Sparta
Now, why would Dr. Phil let a little something like the truth get in way.

I just sent Dr Phil a note asking why the easily refuted lies on his show.

I suspect he just bought into some gun grabber's nonsense without doing any checking on his own. If he receives a few notes maybe he will do some checking before he spews such crap again.

38 posted on 11/28/2002 1:42:59 PM PST by RJL
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To: blastdad51
So what's your point? Mine was that islamic extremists are evil. Are you saying that I'm a bigot or what! I don't care what Powell says, murder and suicide in the name of religion is EVIL!!!!!!!!!!
39 posted on 11/28/2002 3:08:02 PM PST by blastdad51
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To: Vic3O3; Siggy
Correct. He is a Psychologist not a psychiatrist and to call him a disgrace to the profession is being too mild. The fellow appeared on Oprah and appeals to a certain (prozac filled) mindset. I heard him a couple of times and was totally unimpressed.
40 posted on 11/28/2002 3:15:17 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: Pablo64
I believe it stands for Piled Higher and Deeper.

You are correct. And B.S. stands for Bull S***, while M.S. stands for More S***. The stuff of which Dr. Phil is full.

41 posted on 11/28/2002 5:55:07 PM PST by brewcrew
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To: mhking
BANG! BANG!
42 posted on 11/29/2002 3:40:32 PM PST by mafree
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To: JohnHuang2; mhking
When I regain the ability to write without suffering from a remorselessly insistent urge to endorse extreme and ghoulishly creative violence against Dr Phil, I shall respond to this atrocity in my usual vein. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, mhking.
43 posted on 11/29/2002 10:10:32 PM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: Vic3O3
I betcha his DR is a PhD (Piled Higher and Deeper) and not an MD.

I'd take that bet. (Based on the M.D.'s who have been involved in past anti-gun "research".)

44 posted on 12/02/2002 4:14:31 PM PST by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: CARepubGal
Oops, maybe I won't take that bet.
45 posted on 12/02/2002 4:16:21 PM PST by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: TomB
Of course the "experiment" is fatally flawed. You don't teach gun safety by telling a child once or twice "don't touch". That is stupid.

Don't be silly. It worked for the "just say no" campaign, the "sex can wait, I'm worth it" campaign, and the D.A.R.E. program. You only have to say it once to kids and they're programmed properly for life... aren't they?

/Lib-Thinktm>

46 posted on 12/02/2002 4:20:51 PM PST by Teacher317
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To: On the Road to Serfdom
LOL! MD's tend to be a bit smarter than Phil.
47 posted on 12/02/2002 7:39:26 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: JohnHuang2
BTTT
48 posted on 12/04/2002 6:12:54 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: demosthenes the elder
repost from separate thread, same article/topic




I know this is from World Nut Daily, but Larry Elder has always seemed to be a decent guy. Dr. Phil is a clown.
1 posted on 12/04/2002 6:05 AM PST by jjm2111


To: *bang_list

Bang!
2 posted on 12/04/2002 6:05 AM PST by jjm2111


To: jjm2111

this was posted on FR last week.
3 posted on 12/04/2002 6:08 AM PST by demosthenes the elder


To: jjm2111

If you like Larry Elder and don't want to give World Nut Daily any hits, go to Larry Elder, Jewish World Review
4 posted on 12/04/2002 6:10 AM PST by BlueLancer


To: demosthenes the elder; Admin Moderator

My bad, I did a search, but it didn't come up. Admin, if you want to pull it....
5 posted on 12/04/2002 6:11 AM PST by jjm2111


To: jjm2111

Kids, Guns and Dr. Phil

Rats! I was secretly hoping that kids with guns had attacked Dr. Phil. Oh well.
6 posted on 12/04/2002 6:12 AM PST by PBRSTREETGANG


To: jjm2111

everyone does it sooner or later. if you want to add your thoughts to the thread, it is located here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/797341/posts
7 posted on 12/04/2002 6:14 AM PST by demosthenes the elder


To: jjm2111

"...Dr. Phil is a clown..."

A tabloid recently accused him of unscrupulous, even borderline criminal/fraudulent business dealings in his past.

I haven't heard any outraged protests, any threats to sue for libel, from him.

Does anyone know whether these stories are true? Is he no more than a common criminal who simply 'beat the system' who now panders to domestic enemies of the Constitution of the United States?

Enquiring minds want to know.
8 posted on 12/04/2002 6:20 AM PST by DWSUWF
49 posted on 12/04/2002 6:26:30 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: JCG
"Beware of anything told you by psychologists, psychiatrists ..."

Is that anything like:

If it was free then its advice, if you paid for it then its counciling, if you can use either then its a miracle.

50 posted on 12/04/2002 6:47:49 AM PST by gnarledmaw
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