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Conservatives Dispute Bush Portrayal of Islam as Peaceful
washington post ^ | 11/30/02

Posted on 11/29/2002 9:49:16 PM PST by knak

President Bush finds himself in a rare disagreement with conservatives in his party over his efforts to portray Islam as a peaceful religion that is not responsible for anti-American terrorism.

In a score of speeches since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the president has called for tolerance of Muslims, describing Islam as "a faith based upon peace and love and compassion" and a religion committed to "morality and learning and tolerance."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: islam; religionofpeace; ropma
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1 posted on 11/29/2002 9:49:16 PM PST by knak
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To: knak
'Islam' doesn't mean 'peace.' It means 'absolute submission' in Arabic. 'Nuff said.
2 posted on 11/29/2002 10:00:31 PM PST by ex-Texan
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To: knak
Of Course Most Muslims Are Peaceful--So What?
3 posted on 11/29/2002 10:03:18 PM PST by onedoug
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To: knak
Well I'm certainly proud that my tax dollars are being used to fund White House dinners celebrating Ramadan.
4 posted on 11/29/2002 10:12:22 PM PST by Founding Father
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: onedoug
Big ol right on the money bump for this article.
7 posted on 11/29/2002 10:20:46 PM PST by freepersup
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To: knak
I don't pretend to be a biblical scholar, but excerpted passages that I have seen from the Koran did explicitly state that religion should not be compulsory.

From this alone (admittedly) it would seem that the religious leaders are exploiting stupid followers.

Read the Old Testament lately? Imagine what you could do with that, given a simple enough audience..

8 posted on 11/29/2002 10:31:42 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: knak
Rare disagreement!! They must not have listened to RUSH or read Free Republic the last two years. I would say we had alot of things to disagree about.
9 posted on 11/29/2002 10:32:19 PM PST by Brimack34
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To: Founding Father
During Ramadan, you are to fast....not eat......or was it that you should not eat to fast.......I can't remember. LOL!
10 posted on 11/29/2002 10:51:01 PM PST by webber
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To: Jhoffa_
The Jewish Scrip;tures are particularist. The Israelites conquere one area. the Muslims are told to conquere everything.
11 posted on 11/29/2002 10:52:28 PM PST by rmlew
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To: rmlew
Like I said, I just read a little bit, but it was plain spoken and explicit: No compulsory religion.

Period.

So much for ramming Islam down everyone's throat.

12 posted on 11/29/2002 10:54:58 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_
PS: Well, and expecting Allah to condone it anyway..
13 posted on 11/29/2002 10:55:40 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: BrowningBAR
"BELIEVE IT!"

I do, I do. Remember too, that PLO stands for Palestine Liberation Organization. Ask the PLO what the borders of Palestine is and they will reply, it includes ALL of Israel. Then ask the PLO what they are liberating Palestine of and they will reply "liberating Palestine of All Jews!

14 posted on 11/29/2002 10:57:19 PM PST by webber
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To: webber

Read their charter.. (at least the old one, maybe they have changed it) and it's pretty clear on this point.

15 posted on 11/29/2002 11:00:44 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: knak
This "Islam is a pieaceful religion" crap is Bush's second great failure, behind legal/illegal immigration. Every time he opens his mouth on these issues, he looks like a complete idiot who has no idea what he is talking about.

Case in point: The very Muslim cleric he invited to the September 14, 2001 memorial service in Washington was caught (on tape, by Fox News) chanting "Death to America" around a year earlier.

Is he that stupid? he has advisors that could show him the Fox tape, or read passages of the Koran to him...he continues to take this position, although he is so clearly wrong; if this was clinton, we'd call for hs head.

Every time he bends over backwards for Islam, he is pissing in our faces, and blaming us for complaining. It is condescending on a level never before reached. In fact it is lying, and it makes me sick!

16 posted on 11/29/2002 11:01:25 PM PST by Captainpaintball
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To: Mercuria; dennisw; Bob J; nunya bidness; HangFire
Muslim Americans worry that the anti-Islam conservatives are winning the battle. "These right-wingers are trying to set up a civilizational conflict with all their might in the same way as Osama bin Laden," said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "We're trying our darndest to prevent it but every day it's looking more and more like it's heading in that direction. . . . It really is getting a bit frightening. At some times I feel like a member of the Jewish community in Germany in the latter stages of the Weimar Republic."

Ohgivemeanf'ingbreak.

17 posted on 11/29/2002 11:02:35 PM PST by AnnaZ
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To: knak
"the claim is dishonest and destined to fail"

Bears repeating, loudly and often!

18 posted on 11/29/2002 11:02:43 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: knak
""These right-wingers are trying to set up a civilizational conflict with all their might in the same way as Osama bin Laden," said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "We're trying our darndest to prevent it but every day it's looking more and more like it's heading in that direction. . . . It really is getting a bit frightening. At some times I feel like a member of the Jewish community in Germany in the latter stages of the Weimar Republic."

I would personally like to have a little chat with this lying ahole Hooper. The author should have just come right out and expressed his love for Islam and disdain for Christianity. Is this journalism?
19 posted on 11/29/2002 11:04:28 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: knak
Wake up Bush, You need not pander for the Islamo-Nazi vote. You are the incumbent president.
20 posted on 11/29/2002 11:05:33 PM PST by Minutemen
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To: knak
Let's ask the 3,000 killed on 9-11 and the scores of dead since how peaceful Islam is.
21 posted on 11/29/2002 11:07:49 PM PST by husky ed
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To: Captainpaintball

No, it's not crap.

All Muslims aren't violent, hateful or mean spirited.

One of the most pleasant people I ever met was this black guy who maintained our building. I had no idea he was a Muslim till I offered him a piece of pizza while he was fasting (My bad, but how should I know?)

I had years of experience with they guy and I always thought he was a peacenik or something along those lines.

He was the kind of guy who you would want to help your daughter if she had a flat tire. A good guy all around and, as I learned later a devoted Muslim.

You should be careful with these broad brushes. It wasn't too awfully long ago that people wanted to paint all Conservatives with one.

22 posted on 11/29/2002 11:12:58 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: AnnaZ
Ackk!!
23 posted on 11/29/2002 11:14:11 PM PST by HangFire
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To: knak
We all know, or at least have heard, that Islam doctrine teaches the murder of infidels (non-Muslims). So there seems to be a lot of questions about why the president would say that Islam is a religion of peace. It bothered me since I generally support the president. Look carefully at the president's quote in the article. He says, and I quote, "Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others."

Interesting..... This was one of the first few times I had seen the actual quote. Let's quote the president correctly. He qualifies it very specifically. "Islam, [as practiced by the vast majority of people], is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others." I believe this is a true statement as qualified. However, without the clause, "as practiced by the vast majority of people," I believe it is false and I believe the president believes the same. It appears that he chose his words very carefully.

President Bush is president to all Americans, including the 8 million Muslims in this country. As our political leader he cannot, nor should he, condemn a specific religion or its doctrine, no matter how ludicrous. I have not seen any direct quotes where Bush comments on the truthfulness of Islam doctrine. That's not his role. He does make general statements about the Muslim people. Hopefully, he will continue to choose his words carefully and leave any discussion of Islamic doctrine to religious scholars.

CAVEAT: I note also here that Bush is quoted as saying, "Islam is peace." In this case, I believe he was given a bad translation of the word Islam. I hope so anyway. I would prefer that he not address doctrinal issues related to Islam and leave those to religious scholars. He may, however, comment on his general observations of Muslims, and I believe he has done so appropriately to date. I would also hope that spokesmen for the president be very careful also. I believe Ari Fleischer has not been nearly as careful as he should be.

24 posted on 11/29/2002 11:20:38 PM PST by Rockitz
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To: HangFire
Ackk!!

Ack?


25 posted on 11/29/2002 11:23:19 PM PST by FreedomCalls
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To: knak
Of course it's hard to take anyones word that Islam is the "Religion of peace," when it seems every other day in one country or another the terror goes on and for the most ridiculous reasons(Nigeria). Of course it doesn't help when the majority of Muslims are amongst the most ignorant humans on earth, there isn't much intellectualizing going on here. They're little better than the goats they herd in that regard.

What rank and file muslims around the world and especially in this country fail to realize is that for them to gain back any credibility, they had better start policing their own stop and stop expecting everyone to go on as though nothing ever happened. Their stunning silence equals tacit approval of terrorism in many peoples eyes and if they can't see that, then their religion isn't the only problem they have.

26 posted on 11/29/2002 11:27:04 PM PST by amstaff1
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To: ex-Texan
islam is the enemy
27 posted on 11/29/2002 11:30:38 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: knak
President Bush finds himself in a rare disagreement with conservatives

--------------------------

Rare?


28 posted on 11/29/2002 11:34:35 PM PST by RLK
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To: sweetliberty
Looks like the truth will win out on this one. Only Blind People see islam as peace.
29 posted on 11/29/2002 11:36:13 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: TLBSHOW

You are making a mistake.

To remove, persecute or stigmatize the kind of Muslims I came in contact with (In cincy no less! The armpit of the universe) diminishes society.

This broad brush approach is simple and it's easy to apply.

The problem is it doesn't work.

30 posted on 11/29/2002 11:40:55 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: knak

How long must we wait for George W. Twit to READ the Koran and ACKNOWLEDGE the "Axis of Evil" that resides therein ???


31 posted on 11/29/2002 11:41:32 PM PST by GeekDejure
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To: GeekDejure
Then how do you suggest we reslve this matter?

Hmmm?

32 posted on 11/29/2002 11:47:11 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_
One of the most pleasant people I ever met was this black guy who maintained our building. I had no idea he was a Muslim till I offered him a piece of pizza while he was fasting (My bad, but how should I know?)

------------------------

There were some very pleasant people who supported Hitler. Many people support many things not having much of an idea what they are really involved in. Every movement has its dupes.

33 posted on 11/29/2002 11:56:05 PM PST by RLK
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To: amstaff1
What rank and file muslims around the world and especially in this country fail to realize is that for them to gain back any credibility, they had better start policing their own stop and stop expecting everyone to go on as though nothing ever happened. Their stunning silence equals tacit approval of terrorism in many peoples eyes and if they can't see that, then their religion isn't the only problem they have.

That's it in a nutshell. We've heard a lot from the peaceful Muslem Americans about their fears of being treated unfaily in this country since 9/11. To my Western ears it just sounds like more "America is the evil Satan" rhetoric.

The Muslem American community needs to rise up as one loud voice, united in professing that those who hide inside the Islamic faith while engaging in or supporting acts of terrorism are cursed by Allah and must be brought to justice.

Where is the fatwah against Bin Laden and his followers for their unspeakable, murderous blashpemy against Islam?

34 posted on 11/30/2002 12:00:26 AM PST by lonevoice
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To: RLK

Perhaps, but this dupe doesn't deserve to be punished or painted.

IMO, Lamonte and his muslim pals should be left alone.. As they are preferable to 99.5% of Cincy at large.

(I know that's not the most flattering comparison, it is true though. If your car broke down, you would want someone like this to help you.)

35 posted on 11/30/2002 12:00:49 AM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_
The first Muslim settlement in the New World, in what later came to be known as The United States of America, was founded in 1760.

Not one single instance of anti-American violence in over 240 years.

A handful of radicals are trying to goad billions of people into a religious war, and some are willing to be manipulated right into the carnage in the name of Christendom.

I guess we should all judge Christianity by the actions of the KKK.

36 posted on 11/30/2002 12:01:40 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Sure, and then let's get a steak.. Hell, it's been a long day!

37 posted on 11/30/2002 12:03:57 AM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_
Then how do you suggest we resolve this matter?

Submit, roll over and let them kill us.

38 posted on 11/30/2002 12:08:22 AM PST by Minutemen
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To: lonevoice
So, you want Muslims to prove that they are peaceful people by calling for a Fatwah?

You want them to prove that they are different from the ones causing all the death in the world by behaving like them?

If you took the time to read something other than TLB's propaganda, you would find the condemnations on bin Laden's atack on America from Muslim leaders all over the world.

The most important component of any successful military action, is to know, and understand your enemy. The bin Ladens of the world want you to believe that all Muslims are your enemy, like they want Muslims to believe that all Christians are their enemy.

That's the real enemy, the guy trying to manipulate you into thinking the way they do.
39 posted on 11/30/2002 12:09:43 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Jhoffa_
nothings easy....

Point is Islam must be stopped. Islam is the problem. Islam is a murder cult.
40 posted on 11/30/2002 12:11:25 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Did you read this story? Have you heard what the Pope said today? Why is it so hard to say Islam is the enemy? All it is is a cult of death.
41 posted on 11/30/2002 12:14:02 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: TLBSHOW
Are you no longer able to utter a complete sentence?

Will you simply be communicating in slogans from here on out?
42 posted on 11/30/2002 12:15:28 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Minutemen
Calling Islam a peaceful religion "is an increasingly hard argument to make," said Kenneth Adelman, a former Reagan official who serves on the Bush Pentagon's Defense Policy Board. "The more you examine the religion, the more militaristic it seems. After all, its founder, Mohammed, was a warrior, not a peace advocate like Jesus."

snip

Another member of the Pentagon advisory board, Eliot Cohen of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, wrote an article on the Wall Street Journal editorial page arguing that the enemy of the United States enemy is not terrorism "but militant Islam." "The enemy has an ideology, and an hour spent surfing the Web will give the average citizen at least the kind of insights that he or she might have found during World Wars II and III by reading 'Mein Kampf' or the writings of Lenin, Stalin or Mao."

From story above
43 posted on 11/30/2002 12:15:33 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: TLBSHOW
Amen brother, you are preachin' to the choir.
44 posted on 11/30/2002 12:19:11 AM PST by Minutemen
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To: Minutemen

Well, that's clearly BS. IMO, we should fight them.

Just make sure we're beating Bin Laden and not Lamonte..

Because the latter would be unjust.

PS: This frightens me allot. Sure, it's easy to impose harsh penalties and enact laws against Arabs. I mean, look at them. You can pick them out of a crowd easily. There is no hiding them. Personally I find them repulsive, so it's easy.

But those same laws are going to be in place tomorrow. It's like a cannon that can be aimed down anyones throat.

Muslims today, Catholics tomorrow, then the Hindu's.. All you have to do is find a crime large enough to effectively call the whole religion and/or race complicit and you're home free.

You know, if it was Tim McVeigh's crowd that did 9/11 things would be much, much different and if it happened under Clinton's watch we would all be in prison just for logging on to FR.

Remember that.

45 posted on 11/30/2002 12:19:22 AM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_
And remember,in Muslim countries, all the Christians stand out like a sore thumb too. Also, 8 million Muslim "citizens" do not make 8 million "Americans". Seems U.S. citizenship can be bought or stolen nowadays.
46 posted on 11/30/2002 12:28:17 AM PST by Minutemen
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To: TLBSHOW

Lamonte never murdered anyone.. He should be stopped?

Look, I would LOVE to live in a religious theocracy. It's the height of existence.

Men can't administrate these however, only God can. It's a proven fact, just take a lesson or ten from history.

Also, attacking "Islam" or "bombing mecca" (often parroted by the mindless) sounds like a simple plan, but it's suicidal. That's what Bin Laden is counting on to bolster his support.

Men ignore other men, but they will do anything for God. Jump off a bridge because I said so? Hell no. Now, what if God almighty tells you to? You will do it in a second.

That's the kind of motivation Bin Laden is counting on. IMHO, the success of his movement depends on men doing what they would not normally do. Thus, attacking "Islam" is essentially handing him a victory. It's a mistake, and it's an obvious one.

IMHO.

47 posted on 11/30/2002 12:28:44 AM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Luis Gonzalez
If a group of thousands of sociopathic extremists start strapping explosives to their children and sending them as human bombs to murder large numbers of innocent people in public squares all across the world, while professing that this is an expression of their love for Christ, do you doubt that the Christian community would rise up in a howl of outrage calling for their heads??

Yes, I want them (the peaceful Muslem Americans) to do no less than that. I want to see their Clerics, leaders, and average citizens howling their outrage over these acts of terrorism. I want to see them on television, in the media, at protest demonstrations demanding an end to the violence, and execution of the perpetrators.

Instead, I mostly see them wringing their hands and lamenting that they might be mistreated. If a wide sampling of visible mainstream news sources aren't showing abundance evidence of their outrage, would you argue that this is a result of censorship?

48 posted on 11/30/2002 12:36:13 AM PST by lonevoice
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To: TLBSHOW
PS: I guess it could be said more simply if you looked at Osama and the terrorists as using Islam to attach themselves to thousands of "potential warriors" the world over.

They need to use Islam as a binder. Otherwise people would denounce them for their atrocities.

Attacking "Islam" at large will just aid them. Men will do anything to defend their faith, and Osama knows that. Further, he's counting on that.

IMO, it is better to do as President Bush (of which I am no big fan) has done and draw a distinction between Islam as a religion and terrorism as a means to an end.

Thus Osama and his potential recruits are separated.

49 posted on 11/30/2002 12:54:57 AM PST by Jhoffa_
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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