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Conservatives Dispute Bush Portrayal of Islam as Peaceful
washington post ^ | 11/30/02

Posted on 11/29/2002 9:49:16 PM PST by knak

President Bush finds himself in a rare disagreement with conservatives in his party over his efforts to portray Islam as a peaceful religion that is not responsible for anti-American terrorism.

In a score of speeches since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the president has called for tolerance of Muslims, describing Islam as "a faith based upon peace and love and compassion" and a religion committed to "morality and learning and tolerance."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: islam; religionofpeace; ropma
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: Jhoffa_
Yeah, do you have any irony where you live?
251 posted on 12/01/2002 12:44:52 PM PST by Clink
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To: Jhoffa_
Also, I don't really care what your opinion is regarding one Muslim that you know, or what you think of the religion as a whole. You have every right to believe what ever it is you do about that. You do not however, have the freedom to imply that other people have said or believe something they do not. That's my point with the advice.

It's free. :-)
252 posted on 12/01/2002 12:50:48 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael

Worth every penny.

:)

253 posted on 12/01/2002 12:52:39 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Delphinium
"I just don't believe they should have special treatment like what has been going on since 911."

I don't see any special tratment of Muslims. Please expound.

"Its the religion of Islam that scares me."A better, and more exact statement would possibly be: "It is the extremist's version of Islam that scares me.", that's what scares me. The other 99% of Muslims do not.

"And I can say confidently that it was inspired by satan."

Imagine how easy it could be for someone else to say the same about the Church of the Latter Day Saints, or any other non-mainstream belief. Learn more about Islam before you go condemning all Muslims based on the actions of some radicals who are trying to goad a religious war between billions of people. The day that we declare war on Islam, we declare war on not only semites, but native-born Americans as well, not only that, but the majority of Muslims are in Indonesia, not in Arab countries.

"Knowing more about that faith scares me."

Beware propagandists from any side of an issue.

"There has been many horrible things done in the name of the Christian religion, but that doesn't mean it’s the real Christian church."

The very same can be said for Islam. The actions of the few are not representative of the many.

Thanks for the response.

254 posted on 12/01/2002 12:56:48 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Jhoffa_
Thanks.

My own opinion regarding declaring war on people just because they practice and follow a deadly religion is as follows...

That's not a good enough reason.

However...

There is a difference between being the President and being a president who lauds a religion that denies Christ.

It doesn't bother me that he wants to play politics with this. But it does bother me that he would lie about Islam and claim it follows the traditions of Abraham.
It bothers me that he would rebuke his main support base for speaking the truth.
255 posted on 12/01/2002 1:00:46 PM PST by Jael
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Imagine how easy it could be for someone else to say the same about the Church of the Latter Day Saints

When the Mormons start murdering innocent people and celebrating it, then you will have cause for concern.

256 posted on 12/01/2002 1:02:24 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael
I think the Christian Right can think for itself. The chat rooms, internet forums and other such venues of the Christian right have been buzzing of talk regarding the comments of Bush and Powell long before MSNBC or ABC ever mentioned it.

....

I have been talking about it here since April! I bet before April if I did the research. Anyways its out, the line is drawn and people can make up their own minds, as I keep saying ann coulter sums it up best.

It seems an article in a Nigerian newspaper had mused that the Prophet Muhammad "would probably have chosen a wife" from among the Miss World contestants. This upset the practitioners of the Religion of Peace, whose polygamous prophet preferred his wives a little younger – one was 6 years old.

and

Inasmuch as liberals are demanding that Americans ritualistically proclaim, "Islam is a religion of peace," Muslims might do their part by not killing people all the time.


Recently, the Religion of Peace suffered a PR setback when Muslims in Nigeria welcomed the Miss World beauty pageant by slaughtering Christians in the street and burning churches to the ground. At last count, more than 200 people were dead, hundreds more were injured and thousands were left without homes.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/797337/posts

---

PR setback that is a under statement if ever there was one. It left no doubt in most non blind people the truth. Islam is the problem and Islam is not peace.

Now let it drop away a little, since we know the truth about Islam, now its up to The President and Mr. Powell to come to the truth.

Question is will they or will they blame the Christians as they did last month again?

Now relax a little and watch as this unfolds. It has a very important part to play in the direction of religion in this Country!
257 posted on 12/01/2002 1:03:51 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Luis Gonzalez; Delphinium
Actual Quotes from the Koran

The Muslim Bible commands Muslims to murder non-Muslims:

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

That puts their religion in the antichrist status.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 ¶For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Translations of Qur'anic Verses by Abdullah Yusuf Ali:

Say: "Praise be to Allah Who begets no son and has no partner in (His) dominion: nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: Yea magnify Him for His greatness and glory!" 17: 111

Further that He may warn those (also) who say "Allah hath begotten a son": 18: 4

It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter He only says to it "Be" and it is. 19: 35

They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! 19: 88/89

For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son. 19: 92

No son did Allah beget nor is there any god along with Him: (if there were many gods) behold each god would have taken away what he had created and some would have lorded it over others! Glory to Allah (He is free) from the (sort of) things they attribute to Him! 23: 91

He begetteth not nor is He begotten; 112: 3

Which one is right? The Koran, or the Word of God?

258 posted on 12/01/2002 1:06:55 PM PST by Jael
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To: TLBSHOW
Good post!

I keep reading posts from Islam defenders saying it is "just a few" who are committing these deadly deeds. I don't buy it, the numbers are far too high (the dead) for "just a few" Muslims to be doing the deeds.
259 posted on 12/01/2002 1:11:42 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael

You shouldn't be thanking me, it was meant as a tremendous insult.

And as to my "lying" that's just you being shrill, splitting hairs and showing your ignorance.

There are many people here either outright calling for or implying the need for a war on Islam as a whole. They are no better than the problem they are addressing, imo.

260 posted on 12/01/2002 1:11:44 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Publius6961
Yemen is predominantly Muslim, but there are small groups of Christians, Jews, and Hindus.

Syria: Sunni Muslim 74%, Alawite, Druze, and other Muslim sects 16%, Christian (various sects) 10%, Jewish (tiny communities in Damascus, Al Qamishli, and Aleppo)

Saudi Arabia is 100% Muslim.

Pakistan: Muslim 97% (Sunni 77%, Shi'a 20%), Christian, Hindu, and other 3%

Two more countries that you didn't ask for:

USA: Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2%, other 4%, none 10% (1989)

Israel: Jewish 80.1%, Muslim 14.6% (mostly Sunni Muslim), Christian 2.1%, other 3.2% (1996 est.)

Do you see a pattern here?

Christian countries have a small presence of non-Christian religions, the reverse is true for non-Christian countries.

Christian countries have a small presence of non-Christian religions, the reverse is true for non-Christian countries.

Do you think that the figures on the US and Israel indicate religious persecution and intolerance as well?

"I been waiting years for an explanation."

What? All this intellect and you have yet to figure out that the Saudis are by and large arrogant, intolerant a$$holes? You can also see that of all the countries you listed, they are the only ones 100% Muslim.

"Take your prozac and take your time."

I see that you are cut from the same cloth.

261 posted on 12/01/2002 1:18:19 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: TLBSHOW


"(Thanks for carrying our water for us.)
Remember, brethren, the crusaders are out to destroy Islam!
All of Christendom is the enemy!"

262 posted on 12/01/2002 1:20:44 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Jhoffa_
I don't pretend to be a biblical scholar, but excerpted passages that I have seen from the Koran did explicitly state that religion should not be compulsory.

Abrogation is a key concept in the Quaran, if a concept spoken of earlier is contadicted by a later one the later one takes precedence. The "peaceful" passages were "revealed" during the early days of Mohammed at Mecca and after he gained strength and conquered during his exile at Medina were superceded by all the "kick ass and take names for Allah" passages...

263 posted on 12/01/2002 1:22:07 PM PST by Axenolith
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To: Jhoffa_; _Jim
You shouldn't be thanking me, it was meant as a tremendous insult.

You can't insult me, it would not be possible.

And as to my lying that's just you being shrill, splitting hairs and showing your ignorance.

Still trying to insult me? It will never work. It is just showing how everyone how you operate. Your personal attacks against people start when you can't defend your words and when you get busted for lying about people.

Grow up now, and stay on topic.

There are many people here either outright calling for or implying the need for a war on Islam as a whole. They are no better than the problem they are addressing, imo.

You keep lying and saying that. You tried to say it about me but you were shown to be a liar.
It would make more sense for you to stop trying to slander people here and stick to a logical topic.

Also, for you to for one minute slander these good people here and say that they are as bad as the murdering terrorist is an insult to everything Freerepublic stands for. You need to retract.

264 posted on 12/01/2002 1:22:17 PM PST by Jael
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To: Axenolith
Jhoffa has been shown the verses from the Koran that support conversion by force and the enmity that Islam has toward Judeo/ Christian religions. He just ignores the proof.
265 posted on 12/01/2002 1:24:58 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael

1) Heed your own words.

2) Re-read the thread.

Now who is overly broad? Did I indict all of FR at some point? Are you lying Is that on topic? Can two play at your silly game?

I refuse to retract things I didn't say.

I hate all jihadders, Christian's included.

266 posted on 12/01/2002 1:29:08 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Luis Gonzalez
What? All this intellect and you have yet to figure out that the Saudis are by and large arrogant, intolerant a$$holes? You can also see that of all the countries you listed, they are the only ones 100% Muslim.

Beautiful "cut and paste" job, my kindergarten kids used to do that well too.

You sort of forgot the question, though.
I wondered if there were any churches in any of those places where Christians may worship and stay alive.

You studiously answered a question I didn't ask.
But why am I not surprised?

And you specially avoided the Thanksgiving celebration report in Saudi Arabia. No explanation whatsoever? From such a tolerant country?

Good luck at your sand-maggot sites.

267 posted on 12/01/2002 1:30:48 PM PST by Publius6961
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To: Publius6961
Jammal

LOL!!!

BTW, the reason that I had not answered your #185 is that I have been otherwise occupied with my family's Chanukah celebration.

268 posted on 12/01/2002 1:34:56 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
BTW, the reason that I had not answered your #185 is that I have been otherwise occupied with my family's Chanukah celebration.

Clever response!
Kudos...

269 posted on 12/01/2002 1:38:32 PM PST by Publius6961
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To: Cultural Jihad
Nigeria: Death threat reporter 'flees country'.

The author of an article on the Miss World pageant considered blasphemous by many Nigerian Muslims has fled the country.

AFP reported that colleagues at the daily This Day said Isioma Daniel had taken refuge in the US. Islamic authorities in the northern Nigerian state of Zamfara have urged Muslims to kill Isioma Daniel, a writer for the private daily This Day, whose November 16 article about the Miss World pageant sparked deadly riots across the country.

http://www.indexonline.org/indexindex/20021127_nigeria.shtml
270 posted on 12/01/2002 1:39:18 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Delphinium
"You are right, Islam is a religion that does not believe in freedom."

Question: Which is the oldest Muslim country in the world:

Answer: The Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia.

Source.

271 posted on 12/01/2002 1:39:24 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Jael

Now you're lying again.. tsk, tsk.

I acknowledged that there might be more to the Koran regarding conversion by force and I said so. I simply related what I read and admitted that it was very little.

Watch the lying here, will ya? It's getting excessive.

272 posted on 12/01/2002 1:41:17 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Publius6961
Happy Hannukah!

My kids are Jewish (married a Jewish girl), we'll also do the traditional Cuban Christmas Eve with my parents, it's rapidly becoming my in-law's favorite non-Jewish holiday.
273 posted on 12/01/2002 1:42:18 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Publius6961
"I wondered if there were any churches in any of those places where Christians may worship and stay alive."

"Wherever two or more are gathered in My Name..."

274 posted on 12/01/2002 1:46:01 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Publius6961
"Beautiful "cut and paste" job, my kindergarten kids used to do that well too."

Your kindergarten kids may have been also able to figure out that I answered your question about the Saudis and Thanksgiving.

275 posted on 12/01/2002 1:51:34 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Jhoffa_; Bobby777; RnMomof7; RaceBannon; _Jim; Alas Babylon!; al_possum39; xzins; nobdysfool; ...
You can hate Christians all day long, but you certainly would not be in fear for your life from them. And they probably don't care that you are trying to compare them to terrorist, it's been done before. It is however a sad commentary on your motives for this whole thread.
It's nice to see that you talked long enough to expose your real agenda. Keep talking.

You also said
There are many people here either outright calling for or implying the need for a war on Islam as a whole. They are no better than the problem they are addressing, imo.

Once again, you should retract. People here at Freerepublic are not murdering terrorist. No matter what you say, you will never be able to make that connection. It is a disgrace for you to even try.

276 posted on 12/01/2002 1:52:37 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael
The thing that really bugs the crap out of me on this subject is that all of the pussy footing around actually generates more of the radicals. The people who follow Islam who are content to mouth the prayers and hold a "9-5" start seeing that the whack jobs are getting results, or even just demonstrating that they can make us run around like a chicken with its head lopped off, and they start thinking "Hey, maybe these guys are right, I'd better jump on this bandwagon".

10% of them might be hardcores now (and that would be 150 million people at the least willing to fund it) but I'm willing to bet that if there isn't definitive results in the WOT you'll see that number double in no time AND the overall numbers of Islam will grow at 10+% a year as peoples in countries with significant Islamic populations read the writing on the wall and start converting in greater numbers to avoid the persecution.

At the very least, western democracies should institute a program to whack any Islamic clerics who call for death and destruction to non believers. If this is ineffectual it should lead up to the destruction of Islams holy sites. The primatives who take the view of an active Allah who assists in the smiting of his enemies will have a rude awakening when they see that Allah couldn't spare a thunderbolt or two to smite the unbeliever SLCM's that reduce his holy crash pads to ashes. The more spiritually inclined and rational followers of Islam, while they'll probably be pissed, will probably deal with it and get on with life.

I'll have the asbesto's suit on for this one, but does anybody think for a minute that this wouldn't occur if the roles were reversed?

277 posted on 12/01/2002 1:53:31 PM PST by Axenolith
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To: Jhoffa_
The post stands. You were shown what Islam believes.
278 posted on 12/01/2002 1:54:13 PM PST by Jael
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To: Axenolith

That makes a great deal of sense and it would have been politically expedient.

279 posted on 12/01/2002 1:55:08 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Axenolith
Food for thought at least!!!
280 posted on 12/01/2002 1:56:33 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael
Or when they do things like marry multiple women , or let their kids die because they don't believe in secular medicine, or expect people to handle poisonous snakes.

Long as we have a reason.

BTW, "murdering innocent people and celebrating"...can we go after the Irish? After all, there is that whole Catholic/Protestant thing.

281 posted on 12/01/2002 2:00:31 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: aisgreen
That is also why I'm for brutally and quickly winning this war, so we can reclaim as much as our freedom as possible.

Far too much of this war has already been fought on our soil. It need to be over quickly.

282 posted on 12/01/2002 2:01:14 PM PST by SCalGal
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Hardly a wholely Muslim country...

Muslim 45%-50%, Ethiopian Orthodox 35%-40%, animist 12%, other 3%-8% (from the same source)

Also, the democracy has only been around since '94...
283 posted on 12/01/2002 2:03:45 PM PST by Axenolith
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To: Exton1
"Not one MUSLIM GROUP HAS SPOKEN UP AGAINST THIS HATE, OR DENOUNCED THE KORAN FOR ITS HATE PASSAGES. JERRY FALWELL IS RIGHT."

"Over the past year, numerous criticisms have been made that Muslim leaders and organizations have not been outspoken enough in denouncing the violence and horror of September 11, 2001. Muslims are constantly perplexed by this accusation, as we have heard nothing but unequivocal and unified condemnations by the leaders of our community, both in the United States and worldwide. But for some reason, people are not listening."

"For the record, the inhuman attacks of September 11 have been condemned in the strongest terms by virtually all Islamic leaders, organizations, and countries. The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia summarized, "...hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood, constitute a form of injustice that cannot be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts."

Source.

284 posted on 12/01/2002 2:03:59 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Jael

I know all about it. I am a Christian.

You know, by your standards that's lying. I will give you the benefit of the doubt however and assume you are merely under the wrong impression however.

What's wrong with my motivations? Listen pal, God didn't swing down from on high and tell me it was okay to beat up my building's maintenance man because the WTC was attacked.

Is this what he revealed to you?

That's right. My agenda includes universal condemnation for Jihadders.

You got it.

Indeed I did.

Once again, I refuse.

Now that's a lie. Outright, baldfaced lie. I never indicted FR in any way, shape or form.

If anyone should be posting retractions around here it's you Jael.

(But, honestly.. I don't care enough about your opinion to call for one.)

285 posted on 12/01/2002 2:05:07 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Axenolith
It's the world's oldest Muslim nation, look it up. Nor did I ever say that it was 100% Muslim. The first Ethiopian ruler to convert to Islam was around 1290.
286 posted on 12/01/2002 2:12:48 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Jhoffa_
"There are ***many people here*** either outright calling for or implying the need for a war on Islam as a whole. They are no better than the problem they are addressing, imo."

Your quote. You deal with it.

287 posted on 12/01/2002 2:15:01 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael

I thought I just did?

288 posted on 12/01/2002 2:18:01 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
-------
My main issue was its association with freedom, which, on the whole I guess we'll have to take a wait and see attitude on as its kinda new [democracy wise] and there's not quite enough Muslims there to comfortably go on a big persecution spree.
289 posted on 12/01/2002 2:28:02 PM PST by Axenolith
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To: Jael
The Word of God is always right.
290 posted on 12/01/2002 2:44:28 PM PST by Delphinium
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I don't see any special tratment of Muslims. Please expound.

Teaching Islam in public schools is one example:
http://www.aclj.org/news/studentrights/020111_islam_in_schools.asp

There are several more, you must not watch the news?
291 posted on 12/01/2002 3:02:57 PM PST by Delphinium
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To: Jhoffa_
...But you know it's not by killing Lamonte. He's not the problem and, thus he's not the solution.. Actually if you want to be honest about it, he's the only silver lining here.

Hey...you like "Lamonte"...great. You want to find out if he's a Jihadi-in-Waiting...try this...

Tell him that you are sending money and giving time to a group of Missionaries that are going to build a HUGE Christian Cathedral to Jesus in Mecca. And, your Jewish friends are doing the same in a Synagogue for Medina.

See if "Lamonte" doesn't scream Allahu Akhbar!

Me...I'm not waiting around to see if "Lamonte" straps on a bomb...or better yet his kids do.

If "Lamonte" is such a nice guy...what did he do for the 9-11 VICTIMS (Not the terrorists)? Has he joined his fellow citizens in peaceful protest of what Islamazis are doing in his religions name?

I doubt it. Sorry to break it to you, but either he's a card carrying Islamazi, or he's an enabler.

BTW, MacVeigh didn't shout "God is Great"...nor did he do it in the Name of religion. Nice Red Herring there...but what should we expect from folks like you and LouisGonzales...

292 posted on 12/01/2002 3:39:13 PM PST by Itzlzha
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To: knak
If Bush had said that Islam is not a religion of peace can you imagine the problems that would have caused. As a Christian I realize that the battle is not against flesh or blood or other religions, but against the powers and principalities of darkness. The battle is against satan and his agents of terrorism those radicals of the Islamic faith.
293 posted on 12/01/2002 3:46:17 PM PST by txoilman
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To: Itzlzha

A comment like this is a great example of why Lamonte, others like him and their religion are protected by the U.S. Constitution.

294 posted on 12/01/2002 3:48:00 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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Comment #295 Removed by Moderator

To: Jael
Thank you for your nice words:) I've noticed that still no one else has brought that up......
296 posted on 12/01/2002 3:54:06 PM PST by Morrigan
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Comment #297 Removed by Moderator

To: Jhoffa_
thoughtful response. I contend that all fanaticism that results in violence is evil.. It is just as evil for Catholic Christians to be killing Protestant Christians in Northern Ireland as it is for jihadists to be killing innocents around the world!
298 posted on 12/01/2002 3:58:29 PM PST by 2nd Amendment
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To: 2nd Amendment

I would agree with that..

299 posted on 12/01/2002 4:00:35 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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Comment #300 Removed by Moderator


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