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Bill Gates Targets AOL
NM Insider Report ^

Posted on 12/01/2002 9:55:06 AM PST by rs79bm

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To: Dominic Harr

Let's see, according to the recently released numbers, MSN isn't profitable. MS runs it at a loss, financed by profits from their Windows monopoly.

I wonder how many FReepers are left who understand economics well enough to know what that means?

Microsoft makes the lions share of it's profits on Windows and Office. They have five divisions that are running at a loss. However, they didn't expect them to be profitable yet. Also, Windows and Office were at one time running at a loss. With the huge profits from Windows and Office it enables MS the ability to venture into many research and development projects and joint ventures with far forward goals. It's a vision thing.

121 posted on 12/01/2002 7:59:49 PM PST by Zon
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To: Mister Grey
Bill Gates is also a known conservative and right thinker.

Bill Gates is a leftist. And nearly everybody hates Steve Case and AOL.

122 posted on 12/01/2002 8:02:22 PM PST by TechJunkYard
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To: jejones

IE isn't free; its cost is hidden in the cost of Windows.

Well gee wiz, that sure explains why so many Mac users download IE for free.

123 posted on 12/01/2002 8:09:25 PM PST by Zon
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To: Zon
They have five divisions that are running at a loss. Is this public information?
124 posted on 12/01/2002 8:34:05 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark; grania
The concept I'm thinking of is called, "predatory pricing". Selling one product under cost financed by raising prices for a product you have a monopoly on. There has been no 'market pressure' on the price of Windows, so they keep the price artificially high (85% profit margin) on Windows to pay for the 'loss leaders' like IE, MSN and XBox. It's why IE is "free". It isn't really free, of course, there's just an 'IE tax' in the price of Windows. The cost of the development, training and support for IE is paid for by Windows licenses.

It's a classic monopolistic practice.

It's a very, very bad thing, to a capitalist (altho granted, there are precious few of us capitalists/conservatives left in modern America). It's specifically called "attacking the free market".

The concern isn't really even AOL/TimeWarner. They're big enough, they can probably hang in there. The real concern is all the little companies that are killed off by this -- like the entrepeneurs who brought the market 'Netscape'.

Innovation is chilled. Competition is eliminated. Barriers to entry are erected.

That is why this kind of behavior so concerns so many of us.

If you disagree, I can respect that. Many R party people feel that since it was Clinton/Reno in power, they would rather side with MS. Altho I feel that's the same error that many Clintonistas made, since they didn't like the people who made the accusations they excused the illegal behavior.

But all I can do is hope that you are able to recognize that I am only concerned about defending capitalism. I am concerned that 'Atlas Shrugged' is being played out in front of our very eyes, with MS in the role of 'Taggart Transcontinental'. I am personally convinced that the US IT industry is where the US auto industry was in the '70s -- headed for a collapse.

125 posted on 12/01/2002 8:36:46 PM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: Mister Grey
Bill Gates is also a known conservative and right thinker.

Bill Gates and his wife are the largest supporters of Planned Parenthood and international abortion in the world. This is NOT "right thinking."

126 posted on 12/01/2002 8:51:18 PM PST by MSSC6644
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To: Dominic Harr
Let me say first that your position is clearly well examined and, whether or not we happen to agree, I certainly respect it. The concept I'm thinking of is called, "predatory pricing". Selling one product under cost financed by raising prices for a product you have a monopoly on. Predatory pricing is not necessarily practiced by a monopolist. Therefore, as I suggested earlier, whatever critique one may have, it should be clearly separated.

Further, one cannot deduce from losses that the firm is engaged in predatory pricing. Furthermore, pricing becomes predatory if the price is below the competitors costs, not own ones.>{? It's a very, very bad thing, to a capitalist…It's specifically called "attacking the free market". Actually, the opposite is true: it is in a free market that monopolies emerge naturally. It took anti-trust regulation of the government to prevent that from happening.

Innovation is chilled. Competition is eliminated. Barriers to entry are erected. In the software industry, the barriers to entry are almost nonexistent.

Many R party people feel that since it was Clinton/Reno in power, they would rather side with MS. I agree, uniting with the enemy of an enemy is a poor justification in this case. I personally felt that the gov't was motivated not so much by the questions of principle but by Gates' fortune: in the culture of envy, the politicians are compelled to do something. But all I can do is hope that you are able to recognize that I am only concerned about defending capitalism. I am also, but in the case of MS it is not clear how one to defend it.

I also would like to add that dynamic monopoly may have different concerns than the classic "monopoly is higher prices" result. Another aspect that is economic but less visible and quantifiable with difficulty is the role of standardization provided by a monopolist in a fragmented market (there is an enormous benefit from the standard-setting role of MS, which it is able to play only because of its market position).

127 posted on 12/01/2002 9:03:47 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
It is now.
128 posted on 12/01/2002 9:35:24 PM PST by Zon
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To: rs79bm
Bill Gates has vowed to destroy AOL.

Where can I enlist?
129 posted on 12/01/2002 9:38:54 PM PST by chnsmok
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To: Bush2000
Oh, puh-lease. Arguing that Paul Allen wants to glad-hand terrorists is just over the top.

He might not have wanted to, but his actions certainly financed the legal work to keep sniper #2 in the country.

130 posted on 12/01/2002 10:42:07 PM PST by TeleStraightShooter
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To: Dominic Harr
I agree with you about predatory pricing and the problems created when competition is not possible. These oversized corporations are a problem, both with a global reach which makes government regulation irrelevant and within the country where they destroy jobs, control our politicians, and have too much control over what we see, hear, read, and do.

My biggest concern is AOL-Time Warner. It's downright weird that the government let that monster merge. It controls so much of our access to information. What I wrote is that if Bill Gates does anything that causes that monster to collapse while offering me a very good service while he loses money on it, at my personal benefit, that's not really a bad thing.

I agree with you that competition and fairness have to be restored. That's why I'm opposed to the porous borders, government take over of so many facets of our life, and lack of job stability, combined with debt levels starting in college which make it very difficult for people to do anything individual.

This is a problem the Repulican Party has...its pro-business contingent is essentially at odds with the pro-US social conservatives that get them elected. It looks like most of the decisions being made by the administration benefit global and corporate interests. Very little of what the "little guy" Republican wants (or needs) is being implemented, unless you want to count the tax cut and mortgage breaks which are generating money which is being used to prop up business rather than to reduce debt.

131 posted on 12/02/2002 1:34:28 AM PST by grania
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To: grania
Here is the truth re Gates , Xiang etc.,
Bill is funded by Al-Quaeda to enable everyone in the world to use a single, simple OS, that works.
Here is the kicker - everyone has a free choice to use their hard earned, bucks, roubles, dirams, dinars cowrie shells to buy it and use it.
Nobody makes them use it! Nobody forces them to learn English to program in Microsoft tools.
How is that for cunning world domination ?
World domination by a mouse. Could be a Hollywood big seller there somewhere. (don't look but the mouse isn't wearing a tie. Schlock Horror!
Bill Gates is a Muslim - he's got world domination, all he needs now is the religion.
132 posted on 12/02/2002 4:58:48 AM PST by unending thunder
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To: dansangel
((((((ping)))))))
133 posted on 12/02/2002 9:14:08 AM PST by .45MAN
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To: marajade; .45MAN
Add to the fact that they censor even the littlest thing?

Except the gobs of XXX-rated spam that was jamming my mailbox...which is why I left them 4 years ago.

AOHell deserves what it gets.

134 posted on 12/02/2002 10:29:57 AM PST by dansangel
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