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Oregon Gas laws (- Yet another attack on freedom)
CAPITALISTCHICKS.COM ^ | FR Post 12-1-2002 | Debbie Brannigan

Posted on 12/01/2002 1:27:53 PM PST by vannrox

Oregon Gas laws

Debbie Brannigan (Email Author)

I spent most of my life in a suburb of Detroit, MI: the Motor City of America. I've been pumping my own gas for 20+ years now. Imagine my surprise when I went to work in Portland, OR and attempted to fill my own gas tank, only to be told by the 'trained fueling operator' that it was against the law for me to fill my own gas tank. I was not "qualified" to handle class1 flammable liquids!! I thought it was a joke but it’s true. There is a fine of up to $500 if I am caught trying to perform the 'fueling operation' on my own.

ORS 480.315-320

Yep, ORS 480.315-320, that's the one. Check it out on the Oregon State government website: www.leg.state.or.us

The following is taken directly from the text of ORS 480.330:

"An owner, operator or employee of a filling station service station, garage, or other dispensary where class 1 flammable liquids are dispensed at retail may not permit any person other than the owner, operator or employee to use or manipulate any pump, hose, pipe or other device for dispensing the liquids into the fuel tank of a motor vehicle or other retail container."

ORS 480.385, Civil penalty for dispensing law violation:
Civil penalty shall become due and payable 10 days after order: up to $500.

There are 17 declarations listed which try to rationalize this completely irrational law. Too many to list in this writing but here are some of my personal favorites:

ORS480.315

1) The dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids by dispensers properly trained in appropriate safety procedures reduces fire hazards directly associated with the dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids.

7) Exposure to toxic fumes represents a health hazard to customers dispensing Class 1 flammable liquids.

10a) The significantly higher prices typically charged for full-service fuel dispensing in states where self service is permitted at retail discriminates against customers with lower incomes, who are under greater economic pressure to subject themselves to the inconvenience and hazards of self-service.

11) The increased use of self-service at retail in other states has contributed to diminishing the availability of automotive repair facilities at gasoline stations.

14) Self service dispensing at retail contributes to unemployment, particularly among young people.

And, last but not least.....we can't forget about 'the children':

17) Small children left unattended when customers leave to make payment at self service stations creates a dangerous situation.

No, I'm not kidding: those are all for real. Can Big Brother's elitist agenda be any clearer?

Declaration 7 states that exposure to fumes presents a health risk to customers but what about the 'qualified fuel dispensing operator'? There are no masks, no special procedures and no form of protection from these fumes for the attendant. There is nothing this 'qualified' person does any differently than I would. Exposure to fumes for them is OK, I guess. Why can't I do this myself again?

Declaration 10a is by far the most outrageous: "high prices of full service discriminate against low income customers who are subjected to the inconvenience and hazards of self service."

First off, the keyword here is 'convenience'. Convenience is a luxury, not a right. Oregon lawmakers need to learn the difference apparently.

Secondly, it amazes me that Oregon's legislature would even have the nerve to play the "low income discrimination" card in this argument. The state of Oregon has the highest gas prices in all of the contiguous United States thanks to taxes and restrictions imposed upon it's service stations. Oregon not only demands its gas station proprietors hire full time attendants to pump gas but also imposes a 24 cent per gallon “licensing tax” which is due every month of operation. Of course government employees are exempt from paying this additional tax and may file for a refund on the gas they use. Where is the concern for the low income folks now? The poor of Oregon now pay the highest gas prices in the entire country! Rather than cut taxes and lower prices for everyone, the state of OR has decided it's better to impose the highest taxes and charges for all: including the poor. Typical rhetoric. (ref: ORS 319.020 for licensing tax info)

Declarations 11 & 14 claim that self service stations contribute not only to unemployment but also to diminished availability of service stations. This reminds me of a scene from "Anthem" by Ayn Rand. Prometheus presents his great discovery of electricity to the World Council of Scholars. They tell him it would "wreck the plans of the World Council" by wreaking havoc on the current Council of Candles. When government restricts free market evolution, the result can only be stagnation. Can you imagine life if the government had stepped in to halt the 'diminished availability' of blacksmiths, chimney sweeps, milkmen, 8 tracks tapes, rotary phones, etc, etc. If there is market demand for a business it will survive without intervention.

Self-serve gas stations have not led to higher unemployment rates in other states. Most of those stations are equipped with automated electronic pumps and surveilance. More high tech equipment = more high tech maintenance & sales = more high tech jobs. Hmmm. Oregon has the highest gasoline prices in the country. It also has the highest unemployment rate. Oregon lawmakers claim to be passing these laws in an effort to reduce unemployment and help the low income citizens. Obviously, the opposite effect has taken place. Perhaps it is time to rethink the current strategy?

Oh and the best for last!

Declaration 17: small children left alone while paying for gas poses a 'dangerous' situation. Are children all over the country spontaneously combusting at these self serve stations? What are these children doing.....drinking the gasoline when mom's not looking? I could find no data anywhere to support a higher rate of injury to minors at self service stations vs. full serve stations. A vast majority of self serve stations are equipped with pay at the pump service, so you never have to leave the perimeter of your car. If it does not offer this, drive 1/4 mile to one that does. Don't want to do that: take the child inside with you.

It has not been quite a decade since this law was imposed and already the arguments for keeping it intact are " so many people wouldn't know how to pump their own gas now". So here is yet another law fully enforced and completely ridiculous. It is another step up the government ladder of dependancy, where we leave Liberty and Freedom on the ground below.

Let me end this with a fitting quote from Benjamin Franklin: "People who are willing to give up their freedom for securtiy deserve neither"



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: clinton; congress; democrat; free; freedom; gas; hillery; liberal; liberty; oregon; peace; senate
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To: vannrox
The first time an attendent told me this I thought he was joking. I was on my way to Ft. Lewis after a 3 year tour in a 37th Trans Group unit driving, working on, and recovering 5,000 gal tankers of MOGAS, Diesel, and JP4.
I once stood ankle deep in JP4 and cut a bumper out of a tanker with an oxy-act torch (lots of Feurwher foam all around) but I can't pump $10 worth of Premium into my TR7.
Go figure...........
51 posted on 12/01/2002 4:44:14 PM PST by Feckless
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To: itsahoot
Sure can here, and at the bargain price of $2.59 in my city. Handicapped, old and infirm people really get a such a deal.

EVERY self-serve place I have seen has a sign saying "handicapped -- sound horn for assistance" or has a large push button placed low down for easy access that will also call an attendent. In order to comply with the ADA, they have to. If you use that service and you are handicapped, you will get charged the same price as everyone else. If you are handicapped you do not have to use the "full-service" pumps and pay extra.

This is yet another false argument from those who don't like freedom of choice and insist on government control over people's everyday decisions.

52 posted on 12/01/2002 4:51:21 PM PST by FreedomCalls
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To: itsahoot
Anyone remember price wars at competing service stations?

LOL. I remember one when I was a kid. The usual price was about $0.30/gal, and it got all the way to $.05 in a week or so. Then it went back up, of course.

53 posted on 12/01/2002 4:52:39 PM PST by serinde
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To: itsahoot
Handicapped, old and infirm people really get a such a deal.

I live in Texas. I'm disabled. I usually pump my own fuel anyway. There are all of 4 (I think) full-service stations in town, and two of them have ripped me off when I asked them to give me the handicapped discount. I decided it was easier to do it myself than go through that again.

54 posted on 12/01/2002 5:01:48 PM PST by serinde
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To: FreedomCalls
Don't wanna.
55 posted on 12/01/2002 5:15:07 PM PST by ladylib
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To: ladylib
I can CHOOSE to pump my own. You can't.

Don't wanna.

This is a typical liberal response. Since you don't want to, you expect everybody else to think the same way. In my state we have a choice. If you "don't wanna", you "don't hafta." If I "wanna", I can. In New Jersey and in Oregon, you can't.

56 posted on 12/01/2002 5:20:14 PM PST by FreedomCalls
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To: serinde
There are all of 4 (I think) full-service stations in town, and two of them have ripped me off when I asked them to give me the handicapped discount.

There is no such thing as a "handicapped discount" at a full-service pump. Either you are at a full-service pump at a higher price or you are at a self-service pump at a lower price. If you are handicapped and want to pay the self-service price, pull up to the self-service pumps and ask for assistance. The ADA mandates that they help you.

57 posted on 12/01/2002 5:23:36 PM PST by FreedomCalls
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To: vannrox
Lets see, a lower price for self service, yet a higher price for full service discriminates against the poor? Hmmmm, the poor ONLY use full service? Perhaps this points to why they are poor?

MARK A SITY
http://www.logic101.net/
58 posted on 12/01/2002 5:37:51 PM PST by logic101.net
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
> ...and your car will run better.

Huh? Because it's "professionally" pumped?

> Kalifornistan's rough-running bilgewater

Oh. You're talkin' about the "oxygenated" stuff?
We have the same stuff in Oregon during the cooler half of the year (right now). It does seem to hold a bit more water than the regular stuff. I discovered the hard way a few years back, when I had a long commute, that the oxygenated stuff delivers slightly lower miles per gallon. I could go to work and back two days on a tankful of the regular stuff, but when they switched to the winter blend it fell about 3 miles short (but at least it quit on me right in front of the golf course, so I was able to play the 19th hole while waiting).

Dave in Eugene
59 posted on 12/01/2002 5:42:17 PM PST by Clinging Bitterly
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To: jimtorr
> What's up with the price differential? It doesn't really cost any more to make gasoline with different octane ratings.

Because they can?
Heck I don't know. I remember when unleaded first became a requirement with the advent of the catalytic converters. I always thought it was funny that they charged a couple cents more per gallon to not put the lead in. Folks I know used to take that little restrictor hole out of their fill spouts so the regular nozzle would fit (of course I would never do something like that).

Dave in Eugene
60 posted on 12/01/2002 5:50:10 PM PST by Clinging Bitterly
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To: vannrox
Wrong call on this one. Gas is the same price or cheaper in places where you have to pump it yourself. Look at the price of non-self serve gas in other states, talk about a rip off!
61 posted on 12/01/2002 5:50:23 PM PST by tje
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To: baseballmom
I pump my own 99% of the time. Gas is about 1.47 in Philly area.

Here in Greenwich, CT, gas is about $1.70 a gallon, give or take. And that's self serve. In NJ, when I go there (not too often), I always fill up. Well, I don't fill up, I ask the guy at the Vince Lombardi rest stop, the last rest stop in the state before the NY border, to fill up my tank.

62 posted on 12/01/2002 5:50:55 PM PST by Koblenz
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To: Rocksalt
it does create some jobs I will admit

Well yeah, but so would throwing bricks through windows and paying repairmen to fix them. The jobs are economically inefficient.

63 posted on 12/01/2002 5:58:21 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: gcruse
The law is socialist, stupid, economically ridiculous. It's a great thing! It's great because it is a state law. The people of Oregon have decided to do this to themselves. Would that the Tenth Amendment applied to all other areas of state decision making.

Absolutely right on all counts.

64 posted on 12/01/2002 5:59:09 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: FreedomCalls
I guess everybody thinks the same way (or at least a lot of people), because if they wanted it, if it was so damn important to them, they'd have it. It wouldn't be such a big deal for the legislature to pass a law.
65 posted on 12/01/2002 5:59:28 PM PST by ladylib
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To: vannrox
Sounds like Oregon created another Make-Work job.

How much higher were gas prices due to all that?
66 posted on 12/01/2002 6:00:26 PM PST by A CA Guy
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To: tje
The variance in gasoline prices throughout the states is really a function of the difference in state gasoline taxes. Look at this page and you can see that if you live a little north of the Georgia/North Carolina border it is really worth it to drive over to Georgia to fill up. Likewise if you are headed south on US441 hang on until you get south of the border.

Just giving a quick glance at the table, it appears the GA/NC border has the biggest tax differential.

67 posted on 12/01/2002 6:08:13 PM PST by FreedomCalls
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To: ThinkDifferent
"The jobs are economically inefficient."

Could you expound on that a little for me? I'm sure you're right,but I'd like to hear what makes them so.
68 posted on 12/01/2002 6:17:36 PM PST by Rocksalt
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To: ThinkDifferent
The law is socialist, stupid, economically ridiculous. It's a great thing! It's great because it is a state law. The people of Oregon have decided to do this to themselves. Would that the Tenth Amendment applied to all other areas of state decision making.

Absolutely right on all counts.

We also have a system of Interstate and US highways that connect communities to the rest of the United States. These laws interfere with interstate commerce. According to Article I, Section 8, Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce.

Article I Section 8 The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

.........

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

I think there should be a buffer zone within a mile of any Interstate or US highway in which the states would be prohibited from prohibiting self-service gasoline stattions.
69 posted on 12/01/2002 7:15:53 PM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: Rocksalt
It's a form of the broken window fallacy. When customers are forced to pay for having their gas pumped even if that service has no value to them, that money cannot be spent on goods and services that they do actually want. Thus, economically efficient transactions are prevented from occurring.
70 posted on 12/01/2002 7:17:47 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: vannrox
You know, somebody posted this PMS from the capitalist chicks several months ago. This has been the law in Oregon for at least 40 years.
71 posted on 12/01/2002 7:19:31 PM PST by r9etb
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To: Who dat?
The state of Oregon has the highest gas prices in all of the contiguous United States thanks to taxes and restrictions imposed upon it's service stations.

I just paid $1.29 a gallon in Salem, OR. And my hands don't smell of gasoline.

72 posted on 12/01/2002 7:22:40 PM PST by aimhigh
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To: Slyfox; ladylib
So you need a LAW to go to a full service station? PUH-LEEZE!!!
73 posted on 12/01/2002 7:24:19 PM PST by DLfromthedesert
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To: Paleo Conservative
"...I think the a federal law should be passed requiring all retail outlets selling gasoline within one mile of an Interstate or US highway to have self-serve pumps..."

Shirley, you jest...
74 posted on 12/01/2002 7:29:57 PM PST by error99
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To: gcruse
"...It's a great thing! It's great because it is a state law. The people of Oregon have decided to do this to themselves..."

And if the feds tried to force Oregon have self-serve gas;
And if Oregon resisted the new federal law;
Then historians would call it a rebellion over
the "cause" of self-service gasoline...
(if you catch my drft)
75 posted on 12/01/2002 7:33:48 PM PST by error99
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To: DLfromthedesert
Did I say I needed a law? Nope, I didn't. In fact, I think the law is stupid.
All I said was that it was nice to have someone else do it for me.
76 posted on 12/01/2002 7:34:03 PM PST by Slyfox
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To: TightSqueeze
"...Apart from this uncivilized barbarism, Florida is pretty cool..."

Wait till you see the bikini-girl hot dog vendors on the roadside - its a hoot !
77 posted on 12/01/2002 7:35:41 PM PST by error99
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To: vannrox
Hmmm, I wonder if Oregan(o) has a big earthquake fault too?
78 posted on 12/01/2002 7:35:55 PM PST by rockfish59
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To: vannrox
In the same spirt of keeping us safe I think Oregon should pay me not to visit there. Albeit I do so for free thus far........

Stay Safe !

79 posted on 12/01/2002 7:37:13 PM PST by Squantos
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To: Rocksalt
"...Who enjoys smelling like gas?..."

Amazing as it may sound, it is quite possible to perform this task without getting gasoline all over your shoes...
80 posted on 12/01/2002 7:38:35 PM PST by error99
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To: FreedomCalls
$1.59 to 1.79 here in Anchorage
More in Fairbanks
Full of Ethonol to boot
81 posted on 12/01/2002 7:41:24 PM PST by ASOC
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To: Z-28
regarding your link at post # 30...
I LOVE IT !
(I buy gas in Norcross, Georgia - and I pump it myself)
82 posted on 12/01/2002 7:42:57 PM PST by error99
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To: error99
And if the feds tried to force Oregon have self-serve gas;
And if Oregon resisted the new federal law;
Then historians would call it a rebellion over
the "cause" of self-service gasoline...
(if you catch my drft)


My brain has seen better days.  But, if I had to guess,
most historians writing today would say the rebellion was
radicals resisting the federal government's need to
maintain individual competence in pumping gas rather than
risk having terrorists infiltrate the ranks of fuel dispensers
and stop the critical flow of gasoline at the pump rather
than at the oilfields where they have been stymied by
our efforts in the war on terror.
83 posted on 12/01/2002 7:45:30 PM PST by gcruse
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To: error99
Shirley, you jest...

I'm serious, and don't call me Shirley.

84 posted on 12/01/2002 8:01:19 PM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: Paleo Conservative
If you are really being vey series about this.
Just what the heck do you think such a law would accomplish?

If you are you going to say "lower prices";
then I am going to say "no it won't".

Then you are going to say "it will too";
and I am going to say "it won't done it".

Then you will say "will";
and I will say "won't".

Before you know it,
one of will call the other one a "poopy head",
and get banned.
85 posted on 12/01/2002 8:07:43 PM PST by error99
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To: error99
If you are really being vey series about this.

Read post #69.

86 posted on 12/01/2002 8:10:54 PM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: vannrox
This is really no big deal. As far as I can remember, gas prices in Western Oregon are competitive with other Northwest states' self serve stations. In Washington I have seen differences between self serve and full serve stations of up to 20 cents per gallon for attendants to fill the tank. When the prices are close to equal Oregon benefits the employable but unemployed with little to no cost to the consumer.
87 posted on 12/01/2002 8:19:16 PM PST by RWG
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To: Paleo Conservative
But you didn't answer the question...
"Just what the heck do you think such a law would accomplish?"
88 posted on 12/01/2002 8:25:00 PM PST by error99
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To: Dave in Eugene of all places
Dave, I think you are incorrect "We don't have sales tax either, probably because the legislature can't just enact one, it needs to be approved by the voters.."

Every state I know of charges gasoline sales tax. West Virginia the highest and Georgia the lowest.
89 posted on 12/01/2002 8:44:47 PM PST by Orange1998
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To: error99
But you didn't answer the question...

"Just what the heck do you think such a law would accomplish?"

One, it would mean people travelling along highways funded by federal tax money would not have to pay higher prices for gasoline due to idiotic local laws. I also want to annoy leftist wackos who to force their agendas onto the states by incredible contortions of the commerce clause of the constitution. At least the highway system that connects the states can reasonably be construed as affecting interstate commerce. My guess is that within a few years owners of gas stations that are further than the limit will lobby to get this stupid law prohibiting self-service gas sations repealed so they are not at a competitive disadvantage.

90 posted on 12/01/2002 9:05:51 PM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: vannrox
I enjoy having pump service.
91 posted on 12/01/2002 9:08:51 PM PST by oceanperch
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To: wanderin
It is $1.49 for prem. on the coast
92 posted on 12/01/2002 9:24:28 PM PST by oceanperch
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To: oceanperch
I enjoy having pump service.

I enjoy having a choice of pump service or self service.

93 posted on 12/01/2002 9:28:27 PM PST by FreedomCalls
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To: Who dat?
I just drove through Shoshone, CA this afternoon. $2.29.
94 posted on 12/01/2002 9:34:51 PM PST by Vroomfondel
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To: ALS
I remember pumping my own gas in the late eighties at three in the morning....the guy started yelling at me and I said it was his fault for sleeping.
95 posted on 12/01/2002 9:51:39 PM PST by BurbankKarl
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To: TightSqueeze
utterly medieval

lol.

96 posted on 12/01/2002 9:56:01 PM PST by johnboy
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To: FreedomCalls
I love a rainy day living on the bay.
No snakes or bugs that are poisonous.
I love my little town where driving is not to far I Love Oregon where I will be buried six feet deep.
97 posted on 12/01/2002 9:56:09 PM PST by oceanperch
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To: vannrox
Wonder what Oregonians do when on vacation and all they can find is self-serve stations? Something to think about!!
98 posted on 12/01/2002 9:57:16 PM PST by trussell
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Comment #99 Removed by Moderator

To: vannrox
Yeah, it's a stupid law.

It's supposedly designed to "protect" the environment by letting minimum wage morons pump your gas instead of the driver that is probably 200 times smarter.

Also, it drives the price of gas up. My parents live in Portland and both complain about the high prices! But at the same time they buy into all the enviro-wacko stuff and vote for Democrats!

I find, as with my parents, that the biggest whiners on things like high gas prices or Social Security are Democrats that vote to keep those stupid programs in place.

My mother was agahst when she found out, at age 62, that you actually have to WORK and pay into SS to actually get a check!
100 posted on 12/01/2002 10:02:18 PM PST by Fledermaus
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