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"Dispel Mark of Beast Phobia", replace cards with biometrics, 100 million users, pilot launched
USGoverment (Link is PDF File) ^

Posted on 12/01/2002 11:30:53 PM PST by chance33_98

Summary of slides in PDF file, which can be read (or saved by right clicking) on this Link


Large Scale



TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: christianlist; conspiracy; govwatch; religion; techindex
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Did a quick job of copy and paste and edit HTML from the PDF. Just thought this was a bit interesting. The PDF is made up of slides and looks better then what I did.

Technology is amazing, but in the wrong hands it can have terrible affects (ala saddam and wmd, versus US and wmd).

1 posted on 12/01/2002 11:30:53 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: Thinkin' Gal; Centurion2000; JohnGalt; Slipjack; SauronOfMordor; EternalHope; cpdiii; ...
Ping.
2 posted on 12/01/2002 11:32:11 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: All
http://www.firstgov.gov/fgsearch/index.jsp?mw0=biometric&rn=54&in0=domain&dom0=www.itl.nist.gov&parsed=true&mt0=phrase

Is the main link to the firstgov site that has this and other papers.

3 posted on 12/01/2002 11:35:09 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98

This is truly scary! Be a long time afore they get me using something like this. Damn, it's like 1984!!! Where I go and what I buy is my business and ye best be staying out of it!

4 posted on 12/01/2002 11:52:26 PM PST by upchuck
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To: *Conspiracy; *gov_watch; *Christian_list; *Religion; Salvation; Ernest_at_the_Beach; *tech_index
Index Ping
5 posted on 12/01/2002 11:54:21 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: upchuck
They sell keyboards now with biometrics, how long before they are required for online transactions? Books you buy, etc, all tracked more easily.

We are being conditioned now to accept presenting ID for all purchases with in-store card programs. Even when paying in cash you don't get the perks without the card.

It's just a matter of time.

6 posted on 12/01/2002 11:56:32 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: upchuck
They also have a presentation on this from Disney and it's implementations at the main link. Guess we will have to live with it...
7 posted on 12/02/2002 12:00:36 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
"They also have a presentation on this from Disney and it's implementations at the main link. Guess we will have to live with it..."

If enough people protested and refused to buy from merchants that used this (yes, even Disney) then they'd have to find another way.
8 posted on 12/02/2002 12:06:59 AM PST by lonewacko_dot_com
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To: lonewacko_dot_com
I agree, but I simply do not see that happening. The technology has benefits, a lot of them in fact, but what will happen in my estimation is that the christian right will protest it (and hence they must be weakened, liberalized) but they will be margianlized - and all the time people who are complaining about the privacy factor (and not the religious one) will not get much press.

They already have a wealth of responses to the privacy arguments, except what I see as the biggest one - trusting your government. I don't trust them whether bush or clinton are in, but they are a big driving force behind this. And with all the new buzz about security - well biometrics being used as the only source of being able to do business would solve that for the most part.

9 posted on 12/02/2002 12:17:30 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: Thinkin' Gal
Proceedings for the Biometric Consortium 2000 Conference: Biometric Technologies...Emerging into the Mainstream: can be downloaded here in PDF format (29.6 MB file size). Compiled by Dr. Victor McCrary, Fernando Podio, and John Costello, the proceedings contain biographies of speakers as well as printed powerpoint slides from given talks.

You can download the PDF from this site: http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/pubs.html Should be first paragraph on right side. It is about 700 pages and full of fascinating information from the conference. Well worth the read.

10 posted on 12/02/2002 12:56:58 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: All
also see my other thread: NY Supreme Court Decision-Denial of Benefits For Refusal To Participate in biometric fingerprinting
11 posted on 12/02/2002 1:07:35 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: Cindy
Ping - returning the favor, thanks for the links!
12 posted on 12/02/2002 1:19:34 AM PST by chance33_98
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So some POS hacks off my index finger at a POS and I become SOL PDQ after he empties my bank account from an ATM and I can't even ID my HMO for the RN at the ICU after driving there in my SUV? No, thanks.
13 posted on 12/02/2002 1:33:57 AM PST by Orbiter
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To: Orbiter
Well, some of them call for using both biometrics and smart card together, not to mention they are also exploring retina, face recognition, and voice recognition. Hopefully no one will rip out your eye .)
14 posted on 12/02/2002 1:42:12 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
Thanks for the info....hmmmmm...scary stuff.
15 posted on 12/02/2002 1:51:29 AM PST by Cindy
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To: Cindy; Thinkin' Gal
Failure To Enroll (goats): 2 elderly people

I wonder if they refer to those that follow as sheep...

16 posted on 12/02/2002 3:51:15 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
Could be...it's really frightening these days, generally speaking, that the truth is scarier than any fiction writer could dream up.
17 posted on 12/02/2002 3:53:52 AM PST by Cindy
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To: Cindy
What makes it worse, to me anyway, is that you cannot survive without financial interaction - now I know that seems obvious, but let's say your amish and you decide to live on a farm and grow all you need. Well, you still have to pay taxes on your property so you will need an income and/or a bank account. So no matter how hard you try to avoid it you won't be able to. Add to that the case I posted where someone on welfare lost benefits because they would not use the technology on religious grounds and it gets scarier.

Giving the government control over so much information that affects our lives daily is a mistake - whether or not you have religious inclinations.

18 posted on 12/02/2002 4:01:08 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
I don't beleive this is what is referred to as the Mark of the Beast, its simply fingerprint analysis for security purposes.

It could very well be a prelude or desensatization process needed before the Mark, but not the actual one. JMO

19 posted on 12/02/2002 4:09:26 AM PST by DainBramage
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To: DainBramage
I would tend to agree, although using the right index or the eye (forehead?) is interesting. I do agree though that this is probably a first step - a control/change step. It will be used, people will like it, will make life easier, and the 'beast' effect will be scoffed at. Then perhaps it will be time. A good set up actually :)
20 posted on 12/02/2002 4:11:58 AM PST by chance33_98
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: chance33_98
There's too much invasion of privacy happening at a real fast pace. I don't like it.
22 posted on 12/02/2002 4:18:49 AM PST by DBtoo
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To: Ookie Wonderslug
I have no bank accounts or credit cards.

Understand that, was there for awhile myself. But if an employer pays by check then you have to get it cashed somehow, and if it becomes the norm then check cashing places will implement them.

Even then they will do what they do now at grocery stores, jack up prices high but give discounts to people who use the card - only soon it will be use your fingerprint. Just look at the case I posted from NY - They could not get welfare without it. Get laid off in a tough economy? No money unless you do it their way.

I am with you though, I still use cash most of the time (and I work for a bank). I like the ease of being able to pay bills online - but I also like the choice to pay anyway I want.

I have a bunch of downloaded pdf's from conferences and such - it is going to be here en masse before we know it.

23 posted on 12/02/2002 4:21:51 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: DBtoo
There's too much invasion of privacy happening at a real fast pace. I don't like it.

Imagine how the insurance companies could use this info. You ate at McDonald's three times last month, bought oreos and other junk food, etc. Not to mention all the other ways that information could be used to box you in.

24 posted on 12/02/2002 4:40:35 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: xzins
Ping!
25 posted on 12/02/2002 5:09:22 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
bump
26 posted on 12/02/2002 5:21:14 AM PST by Maelstrom
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To: chance33_98; fortheDeclaration; ShadowAce; P-Marlowe; Revelation 911; The Grammarian; SpookBrat; ...
bio-metric ID technology.

Notice last slide after you go to link. It says "dispel mark of beast phobia." Interesting.

Does anyone know how to copy/paste those acrobat pdf files?
27 posted on 12/02/2002 5:22:48 AM PST by xzins
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To: xzins
I was able to copy and paste the text, the images will have to wait until I am home and I can upload them to my server.
28 posted on 12/02/2002 5:23:33 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
Scary stuff indeed.
29 posted on 12/02/2002 5:25:25 AM PST by rintense
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To: chance33_98
"Must continue to educate the public on how biometric technology works to dispel the “Mark of the Beast” phobia"

Yeah, let's dispel that phobia, hahahaha. This is coming for sure, it will be forced on everyone, like illegal immigration. After everyone is chipped, it becomes a simple matter for a dictator to demand a show of your devotion to him by taking his mark and if you don't, your chip is turned off, you can't even buy gasoline, pay your property taxes, you lose it all, all except the most important thing.

I can already tell you what one of the selling points will be, you can't vote in an American election if your an illegal, because the proper ok to vote won't be on their chip. It will be seen as a good thing to Republicans for sure, it will be a lame answer to sovereignty, and leave the illusion of citizenship remaining.

The thing is, you don't know how long after your chipped that this dictator is going to show up, five years twenty? This really needs to be fought hard here in America.

30 posted on 12/02/2002 5:43:59 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: MissAmericanPie
you can't vote in an American election

They are already working on a schema for voting machines to use them to identify people. Will have to dig up my articles on that when I am not at work (most my bookmarks are at home).

31 posted on 12/02/2002 5:46:40 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
"Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

I think today we call this "Unintended Consequences", but the end thereof are the ways of death.

32 posted on 12/02/2002 6:41:58 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Lilly
Ping to ya :)
33 posted on 12/02/2002 7:10:12 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
Bump for discussion.
34 posted on 12/02/2002 11:56:41 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: xzins
Does anyone know how to copy/paste those acrobat pdf files?

I am finally home and should have those online late tonight as jpg's. Will post a few here with a link to the rest at my web site.

35 posted on 12/02/2002 12:13:12 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: DainBramage
"It could very well be a prelude or desensatization process needed before the Mark"

Like it says in the PDF, if you sign up for their service you get a free hamburger!

Make sure to get a super-sized meal when they want to give you your barcode.
36 posted on 12/02/2002 12:42:37 PM PST by lonewacko_dot_com
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To: DainBramage
I agree, this is incrementalism.

Funny, I was talking 'shop' the other day with a CEO of another firm and he said that a 'chip' could be so small that it could be administered...via a vaccination!
37 posted on 12/02/2002 12:51:37 PM PST by ApesForEvolution
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To: chance33_98
Even then they will do what they do now at grocery stores, jack up prices high but give discounts to people who use the card

I'm probably one of the few people left around here without one of those grocery tags hanging off of my keychain. About twice a year I'll venture into a big supermarket for a specialty item. It is my observation that they don't offer 'discounts' with the card, but rather gouge the heck out of you if you don't have the card. Produce, for example, can be double the price w/o the stupid card. Now some people will use fake information to get cards, but I prefer to avoid these stores. It'll be increasingly harder to do just that.

38 posted on 12/02/2002 1:18:14 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal
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To: Orbiter
The latest version of this technology senses the difference between a fake finger (i.e. made of silicon) and a real one. Everyone has a small current that flows through their bodies and a "connected" finger is required to make the circuit read the print. Early versions of these devices used a form of "copy machine" imaging that could easily be defeated through the oils left on the glass after lifting your finger away.
39 posted on 12/02/2002 1:30:29 PM PST by jettester
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To: chance33_98
The 'Mark of the Beast'? Are all such decisions considered a 'phobia' if they don't meet with governments approval?
40 posted on 12/02/2002 1:48:59 PM PST by MoGalahad
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To: MoGalahad
Are all such decisions considered a 'phobia' if they don't meet with governments approval?

Your either a sheep or a goat to them:
Failure To Enroll (goats): 2 elderly people

41 posted on 12/02/2002 1:51:28 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
If this happens, and biometric id becomes a requirement, expect the black market economy to BOOM!
42 posted on 12/02/2002 1:52:39 PM PST by abner
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To: chance33_98
I've read about this stuff before, pretty wacked out if you ask me. Don't know if I believe it all, or maybe I just don't want to believe it. It's a toss up.

Thanks for ping'in me hon.
43 posted on 12/02/2002 7:41:21 PM PST by Lilly
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To: xzins
Scary. Just say "No."

Loudly.

44 posted on 12/02/2002 8:15:21 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
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To: chance33_98
Interesting that it's a "phobia" already linking refusal to mental illness.

I came across something interesting regarding Russia and their plan to assign everyone a barcode for tax purposes. You can search it out on the net as there are several articles about it.

The upshot of it all is that the simple Russians who are awakening to their Christian roots and bibles (or have been proselytized by mob freaks (how do you like my acronym) so they got the Russian church involved and, you guessed it, the head honchos of the church there are trying to tell the people that it is ok.

There are a few Russian clergy that are balking and they are being marginalized.

If it weren't for those pesky fundamentalist Christians who know their bible . . .

And the $64,000 question that nobody wants to touch with a ten-foot-pole other than Dave Hunt is what will the catholic hierarchy tell the catholic people to do? They already utilized magnetic cards for the jubilee.

Things are really heating up.

If you can't buy or sell without it, I don't want it. Unless its my checkbook.

Did you notice that to get the best prices and deals on the internet you almost have to have a credit card?

45 posted on 12/02/2002 8:33:20 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska
If it weren't for those pesky fundamentalist Christians who know their bible . . .

And what bothers me about that it is people see the pesky christians and their phobia and get distracted from the other reasons this is a bad idea. Not to mention imagine being around a group of peers and you make the remark your not sure your gonna sign up for it - they will think your a wacko and compare you to those silly fundie christians, even if your not. The real issues will get glossed over (privacy, control, etc). I almost think the government wants the phobia so they have something to distract people with...

46 posted on 12/02/2002 11:22:15 PM PST by chance33_98
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To: chance33_98
This makes me somewhat more grateful to live out in the boonies. I never use a credit card, I pay with cash. We don't have regular grocery stores here, so we don't have those cards. When we left Houston almost 4 years ago, they already had those cards that would get you "better deals" so I had one. It bothered me some back then because I knew they could keep track of everything I bought. Not that I have anything to hide, but it is somewhat personal, especially concerning women's products and such. I have to admit I miss my favorite Randell's though.
47 posted on 12/02/2002 11:38:16 PM PST by DBtoo
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To: DBtoo
One of the things I saw happen here in Ohio was small town grocers either set up for the cards or were not able to do business with the 'foodstamp' program (by cards here I mean the smart cards they replaced the paper foodstamps with). As a switch to biometric is made this will happen again. Adding to that one can see that in order for the small time grovery store to get their supplies they may have to buy using biometrics to supply their own stores, and over time these things will become normalized.

A mass rollout will take a few years but the foundation has been laid. I am reading "BIOMETRICS AND THE FUTURE OF MONEY" online right now, which is from: WEDNESDAY, MAY 20, 1998, U.S. House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Domestic and International Monetary Policy, Committee on Banking and Financial Services,
(Sorry about the caps, cut and pasted...)
I am also reading the EU directives on this subject. Data integration across global boundaries is of concern, as is data selling and usage without consent (ie your personal biometric data being available to agencies and third party companies, so your voice, iris, fingerprint, etc may all well be quasi-public domain while still being 'private').

I have read and am reading legal documentation on it, pretty fascinating stuff - but to me true privacy comes from using cash - something entirely lost in the governments desire to implement this. If you want any of the links I am ready let me know (same for anyone on the thread).

48 posted on 12/03/2002 12:01:20 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: DainBramage
It could very well be a prelude or desensatization process needed before the Mark, but not the actual one. JMO

I would agree with you on that. The mark will be something more then this, a voluntary submission to the anti-christ - where I see this playing though is in helping to facilitate that procedure. Everyone will already be buying and selling using biometrics by then, so to insure you committ to the AC will be a simple matter. Instead of using a fingerprint, iris, etc, you will get a special new 'mark' (perhaps) showing you have pledged allegiance to his power. Since everything you do is tracked they will have little problem finding those who dissent. It's setting the stage - even if the current intent is good and logical in some ways, as Jesus said '...they know not what they do.'

49 posted on 12/03/2002 12:15:38 AM PST by chance33_98
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; BibChr; Frumanchu; Wrigley; fortheDeclaration; jude24
DrE, I'm among those who have that "mark of beast phobia."

Even if one didn't, though, there is no technology in the history of the world with greater potential for abuse than this has. This marks a time when people can be individually labeled, tracked, and controlled. If Stalin or Hitler had had this, they would have used it to its evil fullest.

I fear for the future liberty of the world with this in the hands of incrementalist socialists. They will begin their experiment in building the ant colony.

You are exactly correct. This is scary.
50 posted on 12/03/2002 7:08:59 AM PST by xzins
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