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US STATES WITH MORE GUN OWNERS HAVE MORE MURDERS
Reuters ^ | 12/04/02 | Reuters - Charnicia E Huggins

Posted on 12/04/2002 10:58:29 AM PST by ServesURight

US States with More Gun Owners Have More Murders

By Charnicia E. Huggins

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Homicides in the United States are more common in states where more households own guns, according to researchers.

The study findings imply "that guns, on balance, lethally imperil rather than protect Americans," lead study author Dr. Matthew Miller of Harvard School of Public Health in Boston, Massachusetts, told Reuters Health.

"This inference is consistent with previous...studies that have found that the presence of a gun in the home is a risk factor for homicide, and starkly at odds with the unsubstantiated, yet often adduced, notion that guns are a public good," he added.

Miller and his team investigated the association between homicide and rates of household firearm ownership using 1988-1997 data collected from the nine US census regions and the 50 states.

They found that household gun ownership was linked to homicide rates throughout the nine census regions. At the state level, the link between rates of gun ownership and murder existed for all homicide victims older than age 5, according to the report in the December issue of the American Journal of Public Health.

In fact, the six states with the highest rates of gun ownership--Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Wyoming, West Virginia and Arkansas--had more than 21,000 homicides, nearly three times as many as the four states with the lowest rates of gun ownership--Hawaii, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and New Jersey.

Further, people who lived in one of the six "high gun states" were nearly three times as likely to die from any homicide and more than four times as likely to die from gun-related homicide than those who lived in "low gun states," the report indicates. Their risk of dying in a non-gun-related homicide was also nearly double that of those who lived in states with the lowest rates of gun ownership.

On average, about half of households in high gun states had firearms, according to data reported by three of the six states, in comparison to 13% of households in low-gun states.

Although homicide rates were higher in poor areas and in states with higher rates of non-lethal violent crime and urbanization, the association between household firearm ownership and homicide remained true when the researchers took these and other factors into consideration.

Still, Miller's team notes that it is not clear whether the higher rates of household gun ownership caused or resulted from the increased number of homicides.

"It is possible, for example, that locally elevated homicide rates may have led to increased local gun acquisition," they write.

SOURCE: American Journal of Public Health 2002;92:1988-1993.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; propaganda
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Where's the FReeper who usually posts that "Man on the lifeboat" BS graphic??
1 posted on 12/04/2002 10:58:29 AM PST by ServesURight
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To: ServesURight
BUMP
2 posted on 12/04/2002 10:58:44 AM PST by ServesURight
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To: *bang_list

3 posted on 12/04/2002 11:00:32 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: ServesURight
"It is possible, for example, that locally elevated homicide rates may have led to increased local gun acquisition," they write.

Our boy, Sherlock, is on the case.

4 posted on 12/04/2002 11:01:27 AM PST by Hodar
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To: ServesURight
Hawaii, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and New Jersey.

Rhode Island?!?!? RI has less people than a medium size city! Not exactly a state large enough for such studies to arive at an accurate conclusion.

And how many people live in Hawaii?

5 posted on 12/04/2002 11:04:02 AM PST by Phantom Lord
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To: ServesURight
And people who live in states with a higher number of automobiles have more drunk drivers. So what?
6 posted on 12/04/2002 11:04:08 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants
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To: ServesURight
A correlation but not a causation.
7 posted on 12/04/2002 11:04:29 AM PST by One More Time
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To: Joe Brower
I don't see any BS in the article at all. Just because you don't want to believe something, don't cover your eyes. AAMOF, the last sentence could very well be the conclusion to be drawn from the article.
8 posted on 12/04/2002 11:04:45 AM PST by gcruse
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To: ServesURight
Miller and his team investigated the association between homicide and rates of household firearm ownership using 1988-1997 data collected from the nine US census regions and the 50 states.

I checked the US census website. I saw NO references to data about firearms ownership.

9 posted on 12/04/2002 11:05:30 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: ServesURight
Further, people who lived in one of the six "high gun states" were nearly three times as likely to die from any homicide and more than four times as likely to die from gun-related homicide than those who lived in "low gun states," the report indicates. Their risk of dying in a non-gun-related homicide was also nearly double that of those who lived in states with the lowest rates of gun ownership.

So, in other words, there is definitely SOME OTHER FACTOR at play here. Plus, you gotta love the wording. If the baseline in the low-gun states is 1, the non-firearms murder rate could be 2.2 (nearly double) and the firearms murder rate could be 2.7 (nearly triple) - when I see general words in a study like this, it usually means some fudging is going on.

10 posted on 12/04/2002 11:08:12 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: ServesURight
I think they might be on to something. I know Id rather walk around alleys in Newark at midnight than in Cheyenne. < /sarcasm >
11 posted on 12/04/2002 11:08:41 AM PST by gnarledmaw
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To: ServesURight
Burglaries in the United States are more common in states where more households have dead bolt locks, according to researchers.

Floods in the United States are more common in states where more households have flood insurance, according to researchers.

Earthquakes in the United States are more common in states where more households have reinforced structures, according to researchers.

ergo,...

dead bolts cause burglaries
flood insurance causes floods
reinforced structures cause earthquakes

Look at me! I'm a researcher! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

12 posted on 12/04/2002 11:09:35 AM PST by avg_freeper
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To: ServesURight
Their risk of dying in a non-gun-related homicide was also nearly double that of those who lived in states with the lowest rates of gun ownership.

So, I guess what they're inferring is that the mere presence of guns in greater numbers cause people in those states to commit more non-gun murders?

WOW!

And what exactly is a non-gun- or gun-related homicide anyway? Pistol-whipping?

13 posted on 12/04/2002 11:09:52 AM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: ServesURight
How do they know how many households contain guns?
14 posted on 12/04/2002 11:10:27 AM PST by luvtheconstitution
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To: ServesURight
This article is a rewrite of a press release which was a rewrite of a press release from VPC (Bradys).

Amazing that there is still homocides in island states with strict gun control. How could that be?

We're told that Maryland and Jersey still have gun crimes because of buyers going to other states for guns. Whassup with Hawaii?
15 posted on 12/04/2002 11:11:42 AM PST by TC Rider
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To: ServesURight
and starkly at odds with the unsubstantiated, yet often adduced, notion that guns are a public good," he added.

Unsubstantiated? John Lott's studies are FAR more rigorous than this nonsense. Why are they only analyzing rates of firearm ownership? Why not also factor in elements such as income level, educational level, racial makup and whether or not drugs were involved? I would imagine the differences would flatten out rather quickly if that were done. But figuring out the truth was not the objective of this study, from the loaded language the researchers are using here.

16 posted on 12/04/2002 11:11:52 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: ServesURight
Talk about using BS statistics to mislead. Consider this statement: In fact, the six states with the highest rates of gun ownership--Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Wyoming, West Virginia and Arkansas--had more than 21,000 homicides, nearly three times as many as the four states with the lowest rates of gun ownership--Hawaii, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and New Jersey.

Here's what it means: Over 10 years, the total number of murders in SIX "high gun ownership" states (21,000) was nearly three times the number of murders in four "low gun ownership" states. No per capita calculations, or other adjustments to make a valid comparison. Typical anti-gun BS.

17 posted on 12/04/2002 11:12:28 AM PST by VRWCmember
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To: ServesURight
Umm...if they're serious about this, and not just trying to fabricate headlines, how about the county-level numbers?

OOPS!

Guess that would completely invalidate their theory, eh?

18 posted on 12/04/2002 11:12:48 AM PST by B Knotts
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To: ServesURight
More liberal "science". They couldn't possibly know who owns guns and, therefore, which states have more gun owners.

Liberals do not know science. They only know liberal arts. To them, science is a basic math class.
19 posted on 12/04/2002 11:13:21 AM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Blood of Tyrants
They also have more automobile accidents. Golly gee.
20 posted on 12/04/2002 11:13:30 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: luvtheconstitution
LOL! They don't.
21 posted on 12/04/2002 11:13:37 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: ServesURight
In those southern states, lets have a breakdown by racial groupings please.
22 posted on 12/04/2002 11:13:39 AM PST by hgro
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To: ServesURight
gee, lemme see... each morning, the rooster flies to the top of the barn and crows. then the sun comes up. Now that must be irrefutable proof that the rooster crowing causes the sun to come up. yessireebob!
23 posted on 12/04/2002 11:14:33 AM PST by camle
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To: gcruse
You don't see any BS? I do, and you should look a little closer.

For one thing, 6 states? 6? Do the numbers not support the anti-gun propaganda if the seventh is included?
24 posted on 12/04/2002 11:14:59 AM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: ServesURight
The headline was incorrectly written:

"In States With More Murders, People Have Needed to Arm Themselves With More Guns for Self-Defense Purposes"

25 posted on 12/04/2002 11:15:53 AM PST by FreedomCalls
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To: dirtboy
Miller and his team investigated the association between homicide and rates of household firearm ownership using 1988-1997 data collected from the nine US census regions and the 50 states.

You KNOW if the 2000 Census had asked about gun ownership, there would have been MASSIVE threads here.

26 posted on 12/04/2002 11:18:09 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: PatrioticAmerican
Please point out the lies in the article.
27 posted on 12/04/2002 11:18:18 AM PST by gcruse
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To: Joe Hadenuf
LOL! They don't.

yet

28 posted on 12/04/2002 11:18:21 AM PST by avg_freeper
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To: avg_freeper
In states that have lots of SUV owners, there is more snowfall each year than in states where people drive small two-wheel drive cars.

Uh-Oh, I don't want to give them any ideas.

It can't be that heavy snowfall causes people to buy four-wheel drive vehicles, nah.

29 posted on 12/04/2002 11:19:09 AM PST by FreedomCalls
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To: ServesURight
They quote the doctor at Harvard as saying the study "implies" causality and the "inferences" are at odds with claims to the contrary. His comments could have easily been lifted from statements ridiculing the study.
30 posted on 12/04/2002 11:19:23 AM PST by big gray tabby
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To: luvtheconstitution
if i lived in a state hostile to gun ownership, i sure wouldn't put the fact i owned a gun on my census form...

the real story here is that we spend too much money on stupid research projects.
31 posted on 12/04/2002 11:19:30 AM PST by teeman8r
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To: ServesURight
This study means absolutely nothing. Homicides don't necessarily equate with murders. There is self-defense, suicide and accidental gun death which can be classified as homicides. In addition, they don't mention how many of these homicides are the result of illegal guns. Finally, the idea that the NJ cities such as Newark, Camden, Trenton, Jersey City, Patterson and others are safe because guns are virtually banned is more BS. I'd much rather walk down Broad and Market at 10pm with my Glock than go around naked.
32 posted on 12/04/2002 11:19:58 AM PST by appeal2
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To: VRWCmember; dirtboy
Take Louisiana out of those six high gun ownership states, and I wonder how these "results" change. Doesn't New Orleans have one of the highest murder rates in the country?
33 posted on 12/04/2002 11:20:13 AM PST by michaelt
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To: gcruse
the last sentence could very well be the conclusion to be drawn from the article.

Yes, varations of which are at post #12. A good read that is also germane can be found HERE.

34 posted on 12/04/2002 11:22:38 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: hgro
In those southern states, lets have a breakdown by racial groupings please.

Already did that. Here, from the Census Bureau website, is the breakdown by state of the two groups - percentage of African-American, and total population in millions:

MA - 5.4 percent, 6.3 million
NJ - 13.6 percent, 8.5 million
RI - 4.5 percent, 1.1 million
HI - 1.8 percent, 1.2 million

AL - 26 percent, 4.4 million
Ark - 15.7 percent, 2.7 million
LA - 32.5 percent, 4.4 million
MI - 36.3 percent, 2.9 million
WV - 3.2 percent, 1.8 million
WY - .8 percent, .5 million

Note that the researchers were careful to lump states together, to make it impossible to look for variations within the high-ownership states and low-ownership states.

35 posted on 12/04/2002 11:22:58 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: gcruse
It is not so much lies as the bad use of statistics - lack of controls, the direction of causality, etc.
36 posted on 12/04/2002 11:23:58 AM PST by michaelt
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To: avg_freeper
ROFL!!!
37 posted on 12/04/2002 11:24:11 AM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: robertpaulsen
This just in: The same six states have many more births, proving guns are an instrument of love.
38 posted on 12/04/2002 11:24:12 AM PST by TC Rider
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To: FreedomCalls
When we lived in Minnesota, I noticed the first winter's snowfall would coincide with the appearance hundreds of old rusty cars; "winter beaters" as they were called. Ergo, rusty Chevies must have had something to do with all that snow...
39 posted on 12/04/2002 11:25:50 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: ServesURight
US Facilities with More Doctors Have More Deaths

By Disarmia E. Frauder

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Deaths in the United States are more common in facilities such as gospitals where more occupants are doctors, according to researchers.

The study findings imply "that doctors, on balance, lethally imperil rather than protect Americans," lead study author Dr. Matthew Miller of Harvard School of Public Health in Boston, Massachusetts, told Reuters Health.

"This inference is consistent with previous...studies that have found that the presence of a doctor in the building is a risk factor for death, and starkly at odds with the unsubstantiated, yet often adduced, notion that doctors are a public good," he added.

Miller and his team investigated the association between death and rates of medical professional presence, using 1988-1997 data collected from the nine US census regions and the 50 states.

They found that physician prevalence was linked to death rates throughout the nine census regions. At the state level, the link between rates of physician prevalence in a given facility and death existed for all death victims older than age 5, according to the report in the December issue of the American Journal of Public Health.

In fact, the six types of facilities with the highest rates of physician presence--hospitals, medical office buildings, senior car facilities, trauma centers, cancer treatment centers, and golf clubhouses --had more than 2,000,000 deaths, nearly three times as many as the four types of buildings with the lowest physician presence--homes, non-medical offices, schools, and retail stores.

Further, people who visited one of the six "high doctor facilities" were nearly three times as likely to die from any disease and more than four times as likely to die from doctor-related surgery than those who visited only "low doctor facilities," the report indicates. Their risk of dying of a non-surgery-related disease was also nearly double that of those who remained in facilities with the lowest rates of physician presence.

On average, about half of people in high-doctor facilities were physicians, according to data reported by three of the six states, in comparison to 1.3% of occupants of low-doctor facilities being doctors.

Although death rates were higher in poor-health areas and in facilities with higher rates of non-lethal diseases and injuries, the association between physician prevalence and death remained true when the researchers took these and other factors into consideration.

Still, Miller's team notes that it is not clear whether the higher rates of physician prevalence caused or resulted from the increased number of deaths.

"It is possible, for example, that locally elevated death rates may have led to increased numbers of physicians going to where people were dying," they write.

SOURCE: American Journal of Political Health 2002;92:1988-1993.
40 posted on 12/04/2002 11:26:33 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: ServesURight
The people that own the guns legally in the state in question are probably shooting intruders, murderers and rapists in self defense, thereby increasing the homicide rate.
41 posted on 12/04/2002 11:27:37 AM PST by b4its2late
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To: gcruse
all just a bs story from the liberal left wing nuts!
42 posted on 12/04/2002 11:28:00 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: ServesURight
How abaout this headline for the same article:

STATES WITH MORE MURDERS HAVE MORE GUN OWNERS.

43 posted on 12/04/2002 11:29:12 AM PST by wayoverontheright
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To: michaelt
The paragraph that let's you know that hey played with the numbers is this one,

"Although homicide rates were higher in poor areas and in states with higher rates of non-lethal violent crime and urbanization, the association between household firearm ownership and homicide remained true when the researchers took these and other factors into consideration".

When you see the "remained true when" replace what follows by "we ignored any statistics that didn't support our predetermined results".
44 posted on 12/04/2002 11:29:40 AM PST by bota
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To: ServesURight
Rates of Household Firearm Ownership and Homicide Across US Regions and States, 1988–1997
Matthew Miller, MD, MPH, ScD, Deborah Azrael, MS, PhD and David Hemenway, PhD
Matthew Miller, Deborah Azrael, and David Hemenway are all from the Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Mass.

Correspondence: Requests for reprints should be sent to Matthew Miller, MD, MPH, ScD, Harvard School of Public Health, 677 Huntington Ave, Boston, MA 02115 (e-mail: mmiller@hsph.harvard.edu).


Objectives. In this study we explored the association between rates of household firearm ownership and homicide across the United States, by age groups.

Methods. We used cross-sectional time-series data (1988–1997) to estimate the association between rates of household firearm ownership and homicide.

Results. In region- and state-level analyses, a robust association between rates of household firearm ownership and homicide was found. Regionally, the association exists for victims aged 5 to 14 years and those 35 years and older. At the state level, the association exists for every age group over age 5, even after controlling for poverty, urbanization, unemployment, alcohol consumption, and nonlethal violent crime.

Conclusions. Although our study cannot determine causation, we found that in areas where household firearm ownership rates were higher, a disproportionately large number of people died from homicide.

http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/92/12/1988
45 posted on 12/04/2002 11:29:54 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: ServesURight
This is BS
Eliminate the big cities and the murders go WAY down
46 posted on 12/04/2002 11:34:07 AM PST by uncbob
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To: hgro
Now, let's look at murder rates, percentage of African-Americans for the ten states. Murder rate is number of murders per 100,000 people:

MA - 5.4 percent, 2.3
NJ - 13.6 percent, 4
RI - 4.5 percent, 3.7
HI - 1.8 percent, 2.6

AL - 26 percent, 8.5
Ark - 15.7 percent, 5.5
LA - 32.5 percent, 11.2
MI - 36.3 percent, 9.9
WV - 3.2 percent, 2.2
WY - .8 percent, 1.8

So with this simple bit of analysis, the high-gun ownership rate states of West Virginia and Wyoming have LOWER murder rates than the four low-gun ownership states. Hence the need to lump them with the four Southern states - to hide another possible finding of that study, one the PC folks at Harvard would NOT want to discover.

47 posted on 12/04/2002 11:34:45 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: ServesURight
What gets me is that Harvard gets over $ 300,000,000 in tax money every year for its "research" -- our money.

The Harvard School of Public Health is the laughing-stock of the medical world. See

http://www.guncite.com/journals/tennmed.html

48 posted on 12/04/2002 11:35:03 AM PST by pabianice
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To: avg_freeper
dead bolts cause burglaries
flood insurance causes floods
reinforced structures cause earthquakes

LOL!....Beautiful logic.
49 posted on 12/04/2002 11:35:05 AM PST by DeFault User
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To: ServesURight
The study findings imply "that guns, on balance, lethally imperil rather than protect Americans," lead study author Dr. Matthew Miller of Harvard School of Public Health in Boston, Massachusetts, told Reuters Health.

I love how gun ownership has recently become a matter of "Health." FMCDH

50 posted on 12/04/2002 11:35:22 AM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace
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