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'Vigilante justice' is better than no justice
WorldNetDaily ^ | December 6, 2002 | Jon E. Dougherty

Posted on 12/05/2002 11:22:43 PM PST by eldoradude

Residents of Arizona, Texas and other increasingly lawless regions of the country are tired of being ignored and are taking matters into their own hands, though their actions are drawing the ire – and fear – of authorities.

Recently Chris Simcox, the editor of Arizona weekly the Tucson Tumbleweed, wrote an editorial in which he said he was fed up with waiting for the federal government to do its job and get serious about enforcing the national borders of this country – especially in an era of increased terrorism.

In response, Simcox said he was forming a citizen's militia to patrol vast expanses of Arizona's border with Mexico, in an effort to stem the flow of illegal immigrants, drugs and potential terrorists – all of which are doing damage to Arizona specifically and the nation in general.

To date, more than 600 people have volunteered to become members of what Simcox calls Civilian Homeland Defense. Tomorrow, the first 50 of those volunteers will be inducted into the unit and begin a course of training that includes qualification for a state-issued concealed weapons permit, which will include a federal background check – a way of screening out the crazies and criminals.

State officials are referring to Simcox as a purveyor of hate, though his effort has everything to do with enhancing citizen security and nothing to do with racism. Gov.-elect Janet Napolitano, a Democrat, has labeled Simcox's effort vigilantism, and says there is "no room" in Arizona for anyone who takes the law into their own hands.

A similar-minded group of people in Texas have formed a group called Ranch Rescue. They, too, are tired of seeing their property overrun by alien invaders and drug runners.

Meanwhile in Houston, residents of one neighborhood – who are fed up with cowering from street gangs – have decided to stop waiting for police to protect them, so they have decided to protect themselves.

"The loose collaboration that includes dads, military veterans and young men who spurned gangs has gone on the offensive, patrolling for gang members and attacking at least one when they believed they had caught him committing a crime," reported the Houston Chronicle.

"If we have to use violence, we'll use it," said Frank Black, the posse's leader.

Police responded by saying they would not tolerate "vigilante justice" and would arrest lawbreakers, regardless of which side they're on.

Though these are prime examples of American patriotism, individual initiative and pride, the reaction of officialdom has been pathetic and outrageous. Rather than celebrate the fact that there are still Americans willing to help by putting their own lives at risk to protect others in increasingly lawless regions, officials threaten them instead.

One official, Assistant Police Chief Charles McClelland, even said Black's efforts could backfire and touch off a new gang skirmish – one between the residents and street thugs. Using his logic, that's like saying more police would incite the gangs to battle cops. Senseless.

Why does officialdom fear it when Americans stand up for themselves? Is it because they fear irrelevance? Do our officials worry that we may find we don't need them – or, at least, as many of them – anymore?

In each of these cases, ordinary people are reacting with courage in extraordinary circumstances. These are actions taken by people who are fed up with the inaction of politicians, leaders and other officials who are charged with handling both these problems.

But for their gallantry, those who were brave enough to stand up and be counted are themselves chastised, ridiculed and threatened.

Part of the problem isn't with the law enforcers themselves. Politicians adopting self-serving, politically correct policies often tie the hands of those who are charged with keeping the peace. That means that part of the problem also lies with the people who elect those politicians.

Still, law enforcement and border security are pretty cut and dried. And absent the proper authorities, Americans are expected to merely accept being abused, victimized, mistreated and even killed by radical criminal elements.

Should Americans continue to take that kind of abuse? If our forefathers had done that, the British Union Jack would be flying from Washington to San Francisco instead of the Stars and Stripes.

The fact that more Americans are saying "no" to bad leadership, bad policies and official incompetence is a good thing for our country and our communities, though such attitudes don't fare well for the control freaks at the top who would rather we rely on them.

"Vigilante justice," therefore, is better than no justice at all.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Philosophy; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: arizona; borderpatrol; california; illegalaliens; lawless; mexico; militia; patrol; texas; vigilante
Still, law enforcement and border security are pretty cut and dried. And absent the proper authorities, Americans are expected to merely accept being abused, victimized, mistreated and even killed by radical criminal elements.

Should Americans continue to take that kind of abuse? If our forefathers had done that, the British Union Jack would be flying from Washington to San Francisco instead of the Stars and Stripes.

Exactly!

1 posted on 12/05/2002 11:22:43 PM PST by eldoradude
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To: eldoradude
Yo! Where do I sign?
2 posted on 12/05/2002 11:32:50 PM PST by hoosierskypilot
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To: eldoradude
They are going to be very suprised at how hard the Federal Government who did not have enough agents to enforce the borders comes down on them.

Because open borders and terrorism is part of the agenda, not just part that is being overlooked.

Suddenly they will have plenty of manpower and a very strong lack of tolerance to what Americans want to do vs what illegal aliens want to do.

Hurry up, activate the National Guard for overseas duty, would not want to stop the agenda.
3 posted on 12/05/2002 11:52:49 PM PST by American in Israel
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To: eldoradude
Arizona’s State officials called the citizens willing to defend their nation’s integrity “HATEFUL“!

That means Arizona’s new Democrat Governor Janet Napalitano. And her goon squad of counter American culturists.

Napalitano only won because there were 4 different referendums on the State’s ballot concerning Indian gaming. And almost every one of Arizona's Indians voted. (Arizona has 16 different tribes) And 90% of them voted Democratic.

Napalitano was the liberal leftist lawyer that represented Anita Hill in the congressional hearings when they attempted to destroy Judge Thomas’s career. She is one of those manly women that were so instinctively drawn to Hillary. The type who despise people like Clarence Thomas. A man who was willing to stand up to fight the moral degeneration of our nation. Napalitano of course was one of the click of leftist feminists that created the malicious falsehoods about Thomas.

Napalitano and her leftist goons, care a hundred percent more for illegal aliens than she does American citizens.

Go America beat leftists,

Pliny the younger
4 posted on 12/06/2002 12:15:22 AM PST by Pliney the younger
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To: eldoradude
Bump.
5 posted on 12/06/2002 12:19:10 AM PST by weikel
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To: American in Israel
Suddenly they will have plenty of manpower and a very strong lack of tolerance to what Americans want to do vs what illegal aliens want to do.

Well the guvment can't use the army for this job it would never stand for it. They'll have to use DEA/ATF type thugs. Their supply is spread thin as it is.

6 posted on 12/06/2002 12:21:22 AM PST by weikel
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To: American in Israel
If there are federal and state officers able to come down on these 'vigilantes' then there should be federal and state officers able to stop regular illegal entries into the U.S. And unless these so-called vigilantes do something illegal, I don't think the protect-lawbreakers-policemen will be able to touch them--I'm not sure what state or federal law says that there is no legal basis for stopping others from breaking the law if you're not a policeman. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that the whole notion of police arose because the hue and cry system was ineffective, but it never actually ended the ability of people to make citizens' arrests of lawbreakers.

I'd strongly suggest that the people on the borders in this vigilante mood post signs that say in English and Spanish something along the lines of "DANGER. If you enter past this point without owner's express permission, you are confirming and admitting your intent to kill him." And in smaller print, put the owner's contact info. Finally, international 'do not enter' symbols for the few truly illiterate folks that might cross.

After that, seems to me that owners would have the right to hold trespassers on their property with a gun. Maybe this would not give them the clear right to actually SHOOT trespassers, unless the trespassers came agressively toward them, but that the owners should then be able use a gun and hold them for law officers, with the trespassers' intent already clearly proven.
7 posted on 12/06/2002 12:25:33 AM PST by LibertarianInExile
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To: LibertarianInExile
After that, seems to me that owners would have the right to hold trespassers on their property with a gun. Maybe this would not give them the clear right to actually SHOOT trespassers, unless the trespassers came agressively toward them, but that the owners should then be able use a gun and hold them for law officers, with the trespassers' intent already clearly proven.

If these poor saps take your advice they are doomed from the start. I hope to hell you are not a lawyer.

8 posted on 12/06/2002 12:36:33 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: Texasforever
I break my own rule in replying to your comments, but I simply must know from the lips of one so amusingly pompous: Why? Why, oh wise one, is this mere lower-casted, unclean one, wrong again? Why has your holier-than-thou-ness deigned rumble his self-important fingers across a keyboard to reply? Thanks so much for saving those poor saps with your reply--please, help save them from my awful post by explaining JUST WHAT IT IS THAT THEY SHOULD DO INSTEAD. Explain how my awful comments are so inviting them to get arrested, exactly, oh great bag of wind, and enlighten us---and save them, Dudley-Do-Right!

I know you can, because you, YOU'RE the legal expert, right? Oh, no, wait, you're a RETIRED ENGINEER. Which qualifies you to...um...wait...it's coming to me...you're qualifed to watch Matlock and bitch about how they don't make `em like they used to?

Go away, boy, you bother me.
9 posted on 12/06/2002 1:04:29 AM PST by LibertarianInExile
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To: dansangel; FreedomPoster
'Vigilante justice' is better than no justice

Well I have to agree with this, it's time that the people told the government what they want....

10 posted on 12/06/2002 1:39:19 AM PST by .45MAN
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To: .45MAN
Why tell the government? Bush is too busy praising the turd-world sandcrawler's satanic death cult for its morality. If this country gets any more a$$ backward and upside down I think I'll lose my mind!

11 posted on 12/06/2002 2:20:48 AM PST by Thorondir
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To: eldoradude
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed - That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. " -- Dec. of Ind.

If this is going on with the consent of the governed, it's not exactly vigilanteism (sp?) is it? :)

12 posted on 12/06/2002 4:14:02 AM PST by CanisMajor2002
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To: Thud
a flaming border war datum ping
13 posted on 12/06/2002 4:24:37 AM PST by Dark Wing
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To: eldoradude
Gov.-elect Janet Napolitano, a Democrat, has labeled Simcox's effort vigilantism, and says there is "no room" in Arizona for anyone who takes the law into their own hands.

Expect things in AZ to worsen for the next 4 years when this new governor takes office. I voted for the 'lesser of 2 evils' so am entitled to criticize her(?).

14 posted on 12/06/2002 4:25:37 AM PST by borisbob69
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To: eldoradude
Gov.-elect Janet Napolitano, a Democrat, has labeled Simcox's effort vigilantism, and says there is "no room" in Arizona for anyone who takes the law into their own hands.

So, according to her, there's no room for Americans who want the laws obeyed, but there's plenty of room for millions and millions of illegal invaders.

This is an atrocity.

15 posted on 12/06/2002 4:33:53 AM PST by Godel
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To: mhking; rdb3
good morning, gentle sirs.
a spot of light reading with your cup of joe?
16 posted on 12/06/2002 5:13:51 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: eldoradude
We need to form a citizen's Home Guard to combat terror and crime.
17 posted on 12/06/2002 5:40:44 AM PST by Sparta
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To: eldoradude
Why does officialdom fear it when Americans stand up for themselves? Is it because they fear irrelevance? Do our officials worry that we may find we don't need them – or, at least, as many of them – anymore?

Exactly, full stop. That is all.

Part of the problem isn't with the law enforcers themselves. Politicians adopting self-serving, politically correct policies often tie the hands of those who are charged with keeping the peace. That means that part of the problem also lies with the people who elect those politicians.

Still, law enforcement and border security are pretty cut and dried. And absent the proper authorities, Americans are expected to merely accept being abused, victimized, mistreated and even killed by radical criminal elements.

Again, this exactly hits the nail upon the head.

18 posted on 12/06/2002 5:43:06 AM PST by Chemist_Geek
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To: LibertarianInExile
7-"I'd strongly suggest that the people on the borders in this vigilante mood post signs that say in English and Spanish something along the lines of "DANGER. If you enter past this point without owner's express permission, you are confirming and admitting your intent to kill him."

When I was growning up in the 50's in Florida, this was common practice, and it was called 'posting' your property, against trespassers, who could/would be legally shot. In fact, trespassers were regularly shot, and it kept problems to a minimum, and this was common in much of the south.

I don't what has happened to this practice these days, but I don't see these 'POSTED' signs anymore.
19 posted on 12/06/2002 6:11:33 AM PST by XBob
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To: Free the USA; Tancredo Fan; Marine Inspector; Ajnin; Fish out of Water; agitator; Tancred; Spiff; ..
ping
20 posted on 12/06/2002 6:29:58 AM PST by madfly
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To: Sabertooth; Spiff; HiJinx; MissAmericanPie; CIBvet; AZHSer; AnnaZ; Mercuria; georgiabelle; ...
ping
21 posted on 12/06/2002 6:30:42 AM PST by madfly
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To: eldoradude
Police responded by saying they would not tolerate "vigilante justice" and would arrest lawbreakers, regardless of which side they're on.

If they are as effective at arresting vigilantes as they are in arresting gangbangers and illegals there shouldn't be too much to worry about.

22 posted on 12/06/2002 7:04:30 AM PST by TigersEye
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: XBob
I grew up in Florida, too, and remember the same thing going on even up to the 70s. Here's why you can't shoot them and this idea doesn't necessarily give you the right to--you can't be sure that they actually HAVE or CAN read the signs. But you have warned them as best you know how to and you have set it up to be able to defend yourself. In light of the fact that the 'guides' that move illegals and drugs into the country have shot at Americans on the Americans' own property in Arizona, it is a good idea to do this just to do this to encourage them to stay off of your property.

I'm not saying anyone SHOULD shoot illegals or trespassers. God forbid. You should certainly defend yourself, but holding trespassers at gunpoint is also illegal without a threat to your person. You can't shoot someone just to defend your property--you have to believe your life is in danger, and brandishing a gun at someone without that belief is actually against the law in most places. This is a big part of why you don't hear much about posting and trespassers being shot because they went beyond "NO TRESPASSING" signs any more.

This signage, to me, is a way that a person worried about illegal immigration through their property could help establish that threat--assuming they've posted the signage in a way that any potential trespassers cannot miss. Check out this site for a good synopsis of the general topic and a pretty important case: http://www.newsaic.com/mled.html.
25 posted on 12/06/2002 7:31:06 AM PST by LibertarianInExile
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To: American in Israel
What you say is true, there will be plenty of law enforcement available to stop Americans from screwing up the agenda, then they will fade back to DC.
26 posted on 12/06/2002 7:34:11 AM PST by jeremiah
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To: LibertarianInExile
Actually, in Arizona, deadly force is authorized to stop a Class II felony. Aggravated Burglary is a Class II felony. A trespasser who has any property of mine in his possession and a weapon of any kind is guilty of Aggravated Burglary.

It may be a stretch to apply that to illegals crossing my property, but maybe not...as soon as one opens the spigot on my water tank or opens a gate, he has my property in his possesion.

The law is on my side. All I would need is a good litigator to convince a jury of that fact...


27 posted on 12/06/2002 8:05:16 AM PST by HiJinx
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To: eldoradude
I have a cousin who owns and lives on a large tract of land close to - but not on - the border with Mexico. We all go there for a periodic family reunion, and when we're wandering around in the brush, I am never without my trusty military-style (yes, "ugly") rifle, not so much for wetbacks, who by and large are harmless, but drug-runners who are armed and will shoot if they see you. Oh, and rattlesnakes, too.
28 posted on 12/06/2002 8:18:45 AM PST by Marauder
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To: Texasforever
You tell um Tex!

Tell them we don't have enough bricks for a wall,

Tell um the INS and law enforcement will take care of um,

Tell um vigilante justice will get them thrown in the joint,

Tell um there is no way to stop this invasion and to just roll over,

Tell um they are all racist and bigots (that generally shuts them up),

Tell up we don't have enough man power,

Tell um that the invasion of millions is good for our economy,

Tell um they pay more in taxes than most American's,

Tell they are lazy and that these invaders are just taking jobs they wont do,

Tell um the INS and President Bush are doing a great job and to just shut up,

Tell um all to learn Spanish,

Tell um that all this millions of illegals will soon be voting Republican

Tell um how good tortilla chips taste

Tell um to sit in the ever warming water and enjoy it.

YOU TELL UM TEX!!

29 posted on 12/06/2002 8:20:09 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: HiJinx
Actually, in Arizona, deadly force is authorized to stop a Class II felony. Aggravated Burglary is a Class II felony. A trespasser who has any property of mine in his possession and a weapon of any kind is guilty of Aggravated Burglary.

Boy, I'll bet that big bad law is scarying the hell out of the hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens that are running through the streets of Phoenix.

30 posted on 12/06/2002 8:23:09 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Of course it isn't...because they have people like Pima Countiy's Public Defender Isabel Garcia lying to them about what the law really says.

The point is, the law is on my side regardless of whether they know about it (or believe it).

A vigilante is judge, jury, and executioner. Until Simcox's group or the Barnett's perform those tasks, (and they never will) they are not vigilantes. This is just another example of people with a Liberal agenda painting the picture they want the masses to see.
31 posted on 12/06/2002 8:55:09 AM PST by HiJinx
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To: BrowningBAR
the DEA/ATF are too busy arresting lawful gun owners and pot smokers to defend the border.

A lot more profit in those enterprises, than in all of their other duties combined!

EBUCK

32 posted on 12/06/2002 10:25:50 AM PST by EBUCK
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To: HiJinx
Agree....
33 posted on 12/06/2002 10:56:58 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: jeremiah
Just my guess, it bears watching.
34 posted on 12/06/2002 12:12:53 PM PST by American in Israel
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To: B4Ranch
ping
35 posted on 12/06/2002 1:31:06 PM PST by Rytwyng
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To: Rytwyng
I believe in giving ample chance, then warning of inaction to elected officials with "these" results if inaction continues, then removal from authority of unresponsive officials, then militia action.
36 posted on 12/06/2002 4:33:59 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: American in Israel
"Suddenly they will have plenty of manpower and a very strong lack of tolerance to what Americans want to do vs what illegal aliens want to do"

Sadly, methinks you are correct.

37 posted on 12/06/2002 6:58:31 PM PST by Paulie
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To: LibertarianInExile
I'd strongly suggest that the people on the borders in this vigilante mood post signs that say in English and Spanish something along the lines of "DANGER...

Don't forget Arabic and what ever language they speak in Iraq, Iran, etc.

38 posted on 12/06/2002 10:54:10 PM PST by Rollee
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To: Rollee
But I'm SURE that no illegal immigrants speak any language other than Spanish. Plus, this new super-duper Homeland Security Act will prevent any Islamists from getting in.
39 posted on 12/07/2002 12:16:34 AM PST by LibertarianInExile
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To: All
This article talks about vigilante justice as if it is a bad thing. Well, to my recollection, many "vigilantes" got justice for real victims when the courts or gov't refused to do it themselves.

Does anyone remember that case of a child molester getting shot to death? This molester kidnapped a young boy, and the boy's dad hid out at an airport and waited until the police went by with the molester. Then the boy's dad turned around and shot the molester dead. Does anyone remember that?

That boy's dad was called a "vigilante". But I think he did the right thing. I would probably have done it too. So I think that the "vigilantes" in the border states should just keep keepin' on.
40 posted on 12/07/2002 10:57:53 AM PST by Morrigan
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