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AMBROSE EVANS-PRITCHARD: Britain could face expulsion from EU under Prodi plan
The Daily Telegraph ^ | December 6, 2002 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Posted on 12/06/2002 11:45:54 AM PST by MadIvan

Britain could be expelled from the European Union if it refuses to accept a fully-fledged European government with powers to launch military or police actions on British soil, according to a draft constitution unveiled by Brussels yesterday.

Any government which accepted this would be immediately disposed of by the electorate - Ivan

The new proposals, secretly drawn up by Romano Prodi, the European Commission president, call for the total abolition of the national veto to prevent policy paralysis after the arrival of 10 new states in 2004.

Utter confusion reigned in Brussels yesterday after Mr Prodi astounded his own top lieutenants by unveiling the plans alongside a separate, less radical text approved by all 20 Commissioners, including Neil Kinnock and Chris Patten.

That document, entitled "Peace, Freedom, Solidarity", was the Commission's formal set of proposals for the Convention on the Future of Europe, which is drafting an EU constitution for an enlarged Europe of 25, 30 or even 35 states.

A federalist wish-list that will alarm Downing Street, it includes an EU foreign secretary operating from the Commission headquarters, a powerful European Parliament with a full say on all EU laws, and a Commission president elected by MEPs.

But the document pales beside the revolutionary 145-page text thrown into the mix by Mr Prodi.

Codenamed "Operation Penelope", it was drafted in total secrecy by a five-man cell under François Lamoureux, the former deputy chief of staff of Jacques Delors, the former Commission president. Mr Patten and Mr Kinnock were not told about it until late this week, and were said to be fuming at the attempt to slip through proposals for a fully-fledged European superstate, ostensibly under the Commission imprimatur, without their assent.

The text, billed as the "Constitution of the European Union", proposes abolishing the national veto in every area of policy including foreign policy, the setting of "European taxes", and future constitutional amendments. The only exception would be the admission of new member states.

A new "Secretary of the European Union" based at the European Commission headquarters would take charge of foreign policy, representing the EU at the United Nations in an attempt to turn the EU into a "world power".

It envisages a military alliance with a mutual defence guarantee along the lines of Nato's Article V, and able to "launch and conduct military operations" beyond its territory.

Brussels should have powers to intervene with force in the domestic affairs of member states in cases of "serious internal disturbances affecting the maintenance of law and order", as long as it was done in a spirit of "solidarity".

The Charter of Fundamental Rights, viewed by the Government as a serious threat to Britain's legal system, should be fully incorporated as a legally-binding text under the jurisdiction of a new "Supreme Court".

Those states "not able to accept the new constitutional system" would face expulsion from the Union under a "special status". The aim is to prevent a repetition of the first Irish referendum on the Nice Treaty, when one state was able to block advances towards greater integration.

The expelled state would be able to negotiate an agreement safeguarding its "existing arrangements" as an EU member, retaining trading privileges as an "associate country", along the lines of Norway. Once a country accepts the new arrangement, it could not leave the EU when it wishes.

A British official dismissed his proposals as preposterous. "It's patently not going to happen. No treaty changes can take place without the unanimous approval of all member states, and none are going to vote for their own expulsion. It's legally impossible."

But "Operation Penelope" has already thought of this. Recalcitrant countries would be "deemed to have left the Union" under an automatic trigger once five-sixths of the EU states agreed to the constitution.

The authors claim this is "in conformity with international law" since the expelled states would be in the position of having "declined to assert" their EU rights.

Mr Prodi said his secret text, which was released on the Commission website last night, was just a "simulation exercise" to help people understand what an EU constitution might look like. It had "no official status".

But EU diplomats suspected that a hard-core group of federalists around Mr Prodi was trying to force the pace. While they are unlikely to win many of their key demands, there are signs that the Convention is moving much further in the federalist direction than Britain had originally predicted.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: blair; confrontation; eu; evanspritchard; expulsion; prodi; uk
Prodi is going out of his way to provoke a backlash in Britain, and I dare say Denmark and elsewhere. If he doesn't shut up the EU will break apart. Keep talking, Romano. ;)

Regards, Ivan


1 posted on 12/06/2002 11:45:54 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: Delmarksman; Sparta; Toirdhealbheach Beucail; TopQuark; TexKat; Iowa Granny; vbmoneyspender; ...
Bump!
2 posted on 12/06/2002 11:46:08 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
I agree with you, Ivan. If the rest of the EU delegations drink this Kool-Aid, coupled with the Euro currency virus, then the EU itself may sink--rapidly--into the sunset.

Best from Houston...

3 posted on 12/06/2002 11:49:48 AM PST by Airborne Longhorn
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To: MadIvan
Well, if you did want to form a new country, this is the kind of thing you'd want to do. But, as Gertrude Stein once said, if not, not.
4 posted on 12/06/2002 11:52:04 AM PST by proxy_user
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To: Airborne Longhorn
The rhetoric in the EU is far outstripping the reality. Prodi talks in grand rhetoric about Europe defending itself and having its own defence pacts...the reality in contrast is Germany is shrinking its defence budget and the only EU nation with a sizeable and modern military is Britain.

They create a "Growth and Stability" pact and couch it in huge rhetoric about how this is going to bring prosperity to Europe. The reality is that there is neither growth nor stability in most of the Euro zone.

The entire EU adventure is so disconnected from reality you have to wonder if it was made up by a bunch of French and German university students who got drunk together.

Regards, Ivan

5 posted on 12/06/2002 11:54:29 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
I'd almost given up hope that the UK could somehow escape the deadly EU embrace, but now hope springs again! The last thing the UK needs is to be turned into a powerless province of "Europe". Being expelled by the EU could be the best possible scenario.

Then, maybe we could scrap NAFTA and NATO and form a US/UK/Canada/Australia/NZ trade/defense bloc. Birds of a feather should flock together! We are natural allies, since we are all kin, after all.

6 posted on 12/06/2002 11:59:02 AM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
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To: MadIvan
If it's going to happen, it will be at least 10,000 years fom now. The giant egos involved will no permit a sooner agreement.

They can't even agree on the size of the table to sit at to discuss what to do next.

7 posted on 12/06/2002 11:59:20 AM PST by chiefqc
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To: Stefan Stackhouse
I like the idea that we could be like Norway, keep the trading arrangements, and yet at the same time keep our money and tell the EU regulators to sod off. I think it would give us a great sense of national rebirth and renewal.

I thoroughly agree an alliance of English speaking nations should be pursued in the aftermath. Let the Germans and French talk themselves to death.

Regards, Ivan

8 posted on 12/06/2002 12:00:54 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
All your prayers answered *L* :-)
9 posted on 12/06/2002 12:05:18 PM PST by Happygal
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To: MadIvan
Your remarks remind me of that great Mark Steyn article: "Put Up or Shut Up".

Your comment: "The entire EU adventure is so disconnected from reality you have to wonder if it was made up by a bunch of French and German university students who got drunk together" points me to this gem from Steyn:

"You’ll recall Louis Michel, the Belgian foreign minister, insisting late last year that the European Rapid Reaction Force ‘must declare itself operational without such a declaration being based on any true capability’. As the Washington Post remarked, ‘Apparently in Europe this works.’

"Asked to set up an actual operational Rapid Reaction Force, most Nato members bristled: the cost would divert valuable resources from social programmes and might mean they’d have to cut back on welfare payments to Islamic terrorists."

Isn't this choice? Even the Washington Post marveled at the lunacy...

10 posted on 12/06/2002 12:16:44 PM PST by Airborne Longhorn
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To: MadIvan
Article VI, Clause 2 of the US Constitution -- will it appear (in some form) in the new EU Constitution?

Will the EU become sovereign over all of its member states?

I read Maggie's latest book, Statecraft. She's right about the EU, except that since the book was written it is even more clear that it is NOT in Britain's interest to be a part of that disaster any longer.
11 posted on 12/06/2002 12:23:59 PM PST by You Dirty Rats
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To: Stefan Stackhouse
Amen . . . except we need to ixnay Canada from the mix. Until Cretin Chretien skips town Canada is a misplaced France in my book.
12 posted on 12/06/2002 12:27:32 PM PST by geedee
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To: MadIvan
Hell's fire, we're gonna have to make you an honorary Texan!
13 posted on 12/06/2002 12:28:59 PM PST by geedee
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To: geedee
OK ..then the Europe under EU gets a single UN vote
14 posted on 12/06/2002 12:38:16 PM PST by spokeshave
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To: MadIvan
Once a country accepts the new arrangement, it could not leave the EU when it wishes.

Hahaha - in the immortal words of Miss Shirley Bassey, "it's all just a little bit of history repeating". Who will be the British Robert E. Lee? ;)

15 posted on 12/06/2002 12:39:41 PM PST by general_re
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To: general_re
Who will be the British Robert E. Lee? ;)

No idea. I wonder if Mrs. Thatcher will go down as sort of being our John Calhoun, however. I certainly believe in "Nullification" in this instance.

Regards, Ivan

16 posted on 12/06/2002 12:52:16 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
This is bad news indeed, for it gives Tricky Tony Blair yet another option:

Having been a fervent Euro-Federalist, he can now say,
"Oops ... those crazy Euros have now gone too far ... never trusted the foreign bastards anyway! Besides they are no where near as tough as they ought to be on these Terrorists, which I and my bosom buddy, George Bush are busy fighting, so you ordinary yobbos better vote Labour for the rest of your lives, which are in my hands."

Thanks to OBL and these EU Wonks, this slippery little twit will use one cunnnig stunt after another to remain Prime Minister until I'm in the Happy Hunting Grounds ...dammit!

17 posted on 12/06/2002 1:02:57 PM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: MadIvan
Well, you either abandon national sovereignty, or you don't - there isn't much of a halfway position here. I'm wondering if anyone in Labour is fool enough to try playing the part of Henry Clay.

Anyway, you can tell your lefty neighbors - sorry, neighbours ;) - that this would mean the loss of a seat on the UN Security Council. Maybe that'll get 'em moving against this...

18 posted on 12/06/2002 1:05:54 PM PST by general_re
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To: MadIvan
Dynamite the Chunnel, the party's over. What a very weird little fantasy world these guys inhabit...
19 posted on 12/06/2002 1:06:53 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: general_re
I'm wondering if anyone in Labour is fool enough to try playing the part of Henry Clay.

Yes, Tony Blair.

Anyway, you can tell your lefty neighbors - sorry, neighbours ;) - that this would mean the loss of a seat on the UN Security Council. Maybe that'll get 'em moving against this...

Many on the far left are opposed to the EU - Tony Benn, for example, as he feels that the EU is "too capitalist", of all things.

Regards, Ivan

20 posted on 12/06/2002 1:08:11 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: Billthedrill
Dynamite the Chunnel, the party's over. What a very weird little fantasy world these guys inhabit...

Everyone should take a trip to Brussels and get a guided tour of the EU buildings if they can. You'll be amazed at the waste involved and the amount of sheer fantasy that is running through these bureaucrats' minds.

It is time to leave the EU - we've seen where it leads: inevitably to failure.

Regards, Ivan

21 posted on 12/06/2002 1:12:06 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Could Prodi's proposal be meant to make the Commissioners' draft look moderate in comparison?

"Operation Penelope." Very odd choice of a name. Penelope spent every night undoing the sewing she had done during the day. Does the title mean this project is intended to fail?

22 posted on 12/06/2002 1:17:09 PM PST by aristeides
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To: MadIvan
...Tony Benn, for example, as he feels that the EU is "too capitalist", of all things.

LOL. Well, take your allies where you can find them, I suppose ;)

23 posted on 12/06/2002 1:19:10 PM PST by general_re
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To: Stefan Stackhouse
form a US/UK/Canada/Australia/NZ trade/defense bloc.

If this happens do we get to call Britain Airstrip One?

24 posted on 12/06/2002 1:27:23 PM PST by u-89
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To: MadIvan
Brussels should have powers to intervene with force in the domestic affairs of member states in cases of "serious internal disturbances affecting the maintenance of law and order", as long as it was done in a spirit of "solidarity".

Who decides when to invoke this little gem and what if the member state objects? Another European war?

25 posted on 12/06/2002 1:38:24 PM PST by Calamari
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To: MadIvan
Codenamed "Operation Penelope", it was drafted in total secrecy by a five-man cell.

I suppose "cell" is Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's word, but it is certainly well chosen. The central Euro-gov seems to work on Communist Party principles. There are no elections, they are responsible to nobody, and they arrive at their decisions in secret.

True, they have no substantial military, but they probably have enough tanks and guns to enforce policy on an unarmed, effete, and cowed civilian population, especially if they continue with a policy of divide and conquer. A socialist dictatorship could make hay in England if they used immigrant gangs in the kind of ways Hitler used the brownshirts or various youth groups.

26 posted on 12/06/2002 1:44:50 PM PST by Cicero
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To: Cicero
. A socialist dictatorship could make hay in England if they used immigrant gangs in the kind of ways Hitler used the brownshirts or various youth groups.

I don't think so. Every time people have underestimated the English people, they've paid a terrible price for it.

Consistent majorities still want no more integration with Europe - if we could only convince our elites that what the people want actually happens to be right for the country. After all, that is what they are supposed to be doing - what is right.

Regards, Ivan

27 posted on 12/06/2002 1:47:22 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
This is absolutely outrageous.

SNORT! FUME!

28 posted on 12/06/2002 1:52:12 PM PST by Mortimer Snavely
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To: MadIvan
Leftists have always loved ever more centralized super-government. It's no accident that most "world-level" pseudo-government bodies are located in Europe, home of Leftist thought for over a century and a half. Also home to the several highly destructive "isms" Leftist thought spawned: communism, socialism, Nazism, and facism — close cousins all. (There are only two reasons the UN is located in New York — the UN HQ was built on donated land, and when the UN was created, Europe was still in a post-WWII devastated condition.)

These days, the Leftists who run the EU are angling for two things: (1) superpower status to challenge, compete with, and — as they see it — contain the United States, and (2) to use EU and "world-level" pseudo-government agencies to force an end to nation states in favor of a true world government.

In the meantime, while the EU Leftists are playing their game of world Monopoly, they are ignoring a gathering threat of monumental proportions right in their midst and on their borders, radical Islamism. I am no fan of many of Tony Blair's policies, but I say a hearty thank God for his brave stand on terrorism and Iraq.

29 posted on 12/06/2002 2:02:24 PM PST by Wolfstar
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To: MadIvan
I think that this is just a touch of Macchiavelli - the lesser-evil trick. In other words, Prodi is putting this forward to make the real aim, the existing proposal, seem mild in comparison, and therefore more acceptable.

In any event, all of this crap is beyond the pale, and it's about time the British public woke up and put a stop to it.

30 posted on 12/06/2002 2:04:55 PM PST by expatpat
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To: Happygal
What about Ireland? How does it feel carrying the load of trash like France and Germany?
31 posted on 12/06/2002 3:39:55 PM PST by Sparta
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To: spokeshave
Or *WE* get fifty...
32 posted on 12/06/2002 4:05:45 PM PST by calenel
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To: MadIvan
Well, after the European economy collapes under the weight of its own neurotic socialist system, we can at least be happy that the newborn fourth reich won't have the military power to fight its way out of a wet paper bag. Never hurts to look at the bright side, eh? :o)
33 posted on 12/06/2002 4:30:12 PM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: MadIvan
And who needs 145 pages to write a freaking constitution?! It must be the bureaucratic brainchild from hell!
34 posted on 12/06/2002 4:32:16 PM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: calenel
Nope we would get 53 by my count. 50 states, Portarico, Guam, and Washington DC.
35 posted on 12/06/2002 5:20:12 PM PST by Kadric
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To: MadIvan
EU: Please expel everyone but Germany, France, and Belgium.
36 posted on 12/06/2002 7:16:44 PM PST by rmlew
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bttt
37 posted on 12/08/2002 6:21:30 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: MadIvan
Hey, they could even rename it Union of Silly Socialist Republics....USSR.....has sort of a familiar ring to it, doesn't it?
38 posted on 12/08/2002 6:47:49 PM PST by McGavin999
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To: MadIvan
Refresh my memory, if you will, please. Exactly what is the argument for Great Britain joining the EU?

I can't seem to recall it...

39 posted on 12/08/2002 7:06:13 PM PST by okie01
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