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Court refuses asylum for Chinese couple claiming abortion threats
Associated Press (via San Jose Mercury News) ^ | 6 December 2002

Posted on 12/06/2002 12:26:08 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture

Edited on 04/13/2004 3:30:02 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A couple who claimed they fled China to escape threats of forced sterilization and abortion have been denied asylum by a federal appeals court.

An immigration judge and the Board of Immigration Appeals had earlier said Xu Ming Li and Xin Kui Yu were ineligible for asylum. In an opinion filed Thursday, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed.


(Excerpt) Read more at bayarea.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 9thuscircuitcourt; abortion; asylum; china; forcedabortions; immigration; onechildpolicy; sanfrancisco; steriliziation; xinkuiyu; xumingli
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1 posted on 12/06/2002 12:26:10 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: CounterCounterCulture
``While one many condemn the way Xu was treated as inconsistent with human rights, we cannot say that the record compels us to conclude that her treatment was an 'extreme form of cruel and inhuman treatment,' or that she would likely face such treatment on her return,'' Judge J. Clifford Wallace wrote in Thursday's opinion.

You can bet if Xu had been at risk for deportation to Pinochet's Chile under similar cicumstances, Wallace would have ruled the other way.

3 posted on 12/06/2002 12:28:40 PM PST by Numbers Guy
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To: Numbers Guy
You betcha.
4 posted on 12/06/2002 12:31:26 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture
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To: CounterCounterCulture
'extreme form of cruel and inhuman treatment,'

I think forced sterilization qualifies.

5 posted on 12/06/2002 12:31:59 PM PST by lepton
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To: nickcarraway; Saundra Duffy; Askel5; Diago
Pro-Life PING
6 posted on 12/06/2002 12:32:30 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture
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To: BrowningBAR
How come the USA is supposed to be the safety valve for a Chinese birth control policy? I resent this. Rightly or wrongly the Chinese government has a policy to prevent overpopulation. Are we supposed to be the off loading zone for Chinese who cannot abide by this policy?
7 posted on 12/06/2002 12:33:01 PM PST by dennisw
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To: BrowningBAR
And what is your reason for making this comment? Are you racist, pro-abortion, or both?
8 posted on 12/06/2002 12:33:55 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: CounterCounterCulture
You can count on the 9th Circuit. They're always wrong.
9 posted on 12/06/2002 12:34:30 PM PST by Argus
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To: lepton
Sounds anti-woman to me. Where's the outrage from the N.O.W. hags and their ilk?
10 posted on 12/06/2002 12:34:33 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture
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To: CounterCounterCulture
There must be 25 million similar cases in China, with the exact same situation. The Chinese have learned the loops to the system, and it's hard to prove if the facts really did warrant asylum. Tis a tough call.
11 posted on 12/06/2002 12:36:17 PM PST by rovenstinez
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To: Argus
When I first saw the headline, I knew it just had to be the 9th. So typical. Where's the leftist tolerance and compassion I hear so much about?
12 posted on 12/06/2002 12:36:41 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture
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To: dennisw
Are we supposed to be the off loading zone for Chinese who cannot abide by this policy?

"Abide"? Respectfully, that is an astounding and profound trivialization.

13 posted on 12/06/2002 12:39:37 PM PST by lepton
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To: dennisw
How come the USA is supposed to be the safety valve for a Chinese birth control policy?

Why not? We (the taxpayers) are picking up the tab for countless Mexican babies born in this country on the public dole. Just go look in your local county hospital and see. Does this make it right? No, but theoretically Dubya will do something about it.

14 posted on 12/06/2002 12:40:52 PM PST by xJones
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To: lepton
If a nation is overcrowded I have no problem with a national birth control policy. I know that large families are the way to go and best for the children's development. But not in an overcrowded nation. If a Chinese couple cannot obey a reasonable policy I don't see why my nation is obligated to be the place where they can fulfill their dream of 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or however many children.
15 posted on 12/06/2002 12:40:56 PM PST by dennisw
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: xJones
Why not? We (the taxpayers) are picking up the tab for countless Mexican babies born in this country on the public dole. Just go look in your local county hospital and see. Does this make it right? No, but theoretically Dubya will do something about it.

On the bright side I doubt many Chinese are coming here to make one_family_one_child asylum claims. A mere drop in the bucket compared to illegal alien Mexican women making sure to have their anchor babies born here.

17 posted on 12/06/2002 12:45:07 PM PST by dennisw
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To: BrowningBAR
Wallace is one of the saner judges in the 9th Circuit. The problem here is if the court accepted this theory, practically a billion Chinese would be eligble for asylum.
18 posted on 12/06/2002 12:47:52 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: CounterCounterCulture
This ruling is completely unjust. We may need a new underground railroad for people like these.
19 posted on 12/06/2002 12:48:56 PM PST by Ronaldus Magnus
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: colorado tanker
In an opinion filed Thursday, the 9th U.S. Circuit Circus Court of Appeals agreed.
21 posted on 12/06/2002 12:49:44 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: dennisw
If a nation is overcrowded I have no problem with a national birth control policy.

The ultimate big government.

In no way is this conservative.

22 posted on 12/06/2002 12:51:37 PM PST by tallhappy
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To: colorado tanker
Her exam came after the two were observed spending time together until early hours of the morning, and a man in their village told Li her relationship with Yu was ``shameful,'' she said. Li told him to stop interfering, and that she planned to have many babies with her boyfriend.

They seem to come from a village. Where the heck do they get the money to illegally immigrate to the United States? The snakeheads charge at least $40,000 for this. Sorry but it seems they want to live here (like a billion other 3rd worlders) and will invent any story that gullible Americans will pay attention too. Did their immigration lawyer advise them that this one would fly?

23 posted on 12/06/2002 12:53:54 PM PST by dennisw
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To: MHGinTN
Ninth Circus Sure is! Wouldn't it be nice if we could "promote" the Ninth Circuit to, say, the Court of Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act Appeals, and let Bush re-stock that Court with people who could pass a sanity exam?
24 posted on 12/06/2002 12:55:05 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: CounterCounterCulture
a man in their village told Li her relationship with Yu was ``shameful,'' she said. Li told him to stop interfering, and that she planned to have many babies with her boyfriend.

<Dr. Laura mode>So why aren't they married?</Dr. Laura mode>

25 posted on 12/06/2002 12:55:37 PM PST by Alouette
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To: tallhappy
And it is in no way conservative to say, "ok, come on over. And while you enjoy your stay, feel free to have as many kids as you like. Oh, can't afford them? No biggie, we got you covered!".

Funny, I don't see this outpouring of love and sentiment on FR when it comes to Mexican immigrants....

26 posted on 12/06/2002 12:55:51 PM PST by Bella_Bru
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To: dennisw
Did their immigration lawyer advise them that this one would fly? Probably not. Probably said it was their best chance, though. The game was up when they got caught, which only a small percentage are.

What the Chinese government is doing is truly awful, but the remedy is not to take the Chinese population into the U.S.

27 posted on 12/06/2002 12:58:39 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: dennisw
China also has a policy of forced marraige. (Government chooses who you marry, not you) They choose your job for you, they also do forced sterilization of any found being 'anti-revolutionary' which can be redefined as anything they want.

They also torture people, rape, abduct people.
But hey, right or wrong.. it's all population control. right?
Here in the states, the gays are stating that homosexuality is good population control.
Only a matter of time before some truly demonic government latches onto that and puts it into policy. And why not? China put a whole slew of scum into policy.
28 posted on 12/06/2002 1:02:53 PM PST by Darksheare
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To: dennisw
If a nation is overcrowded I have no problem with a national birth control policy.

Many of the most crowded nations are prosperous and are well able to handle their populations. China is not overcrowded - it is oversocialized. This threat of sterilization was punishment. It is quite well established that political connections are quite determinant of whether or not the government of China will "liscense" one to procreate. "Abide"? As of yet, she had never been pregnant. She was searched on the idea that she might be. This wasn't an issue of China denying her the resources to raise a family, but rather of denying her the ability to do so regardless of her resources.

29 posted on 12/06/2002 1:12:14 PM PST by lepton
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To: CounterCounterCulture
I don't see how we can possibly offer asylum to every Chinese couple threatened with abortion or the Laogai, because that involves almost half a billion couples--virtually everyone in China.

Instead, we need to work toward ending the oppressive policies of the Chinese Communist regime--by publicizing them, shaming them, and in whatever other way we can do it.

Clinton actively helped the Chinese murder their children. He and Hillary led the charge. Hillary was the great Heroine of the UN Population Conference in Beijing. Bush has cut off funding for these activities. It's a start, but I hope we can do more.
30 posted on 12/06/2002 1:13:03 PM PST by Cicero
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To: CounterCounterCulture
The Chinese governement wants to kill their kid and sterilize the wife and we say that is not grounds for asylum in the land of the free, but we embrace and want more moslems teachers after 9-11, and the Saudi Travel agents have American visa stamps.

What are we, morons? I am disgusted. PC has made us insane.

If running from a dictatorship that kills your kids for quotas is not political repression, what, pray tell IS?

31 posted on 12/06/2002 1:13:50 PM PST by American in Israel
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To: CounterCounterCulture
The 9th strikes again. These oatmeal-for-brains judges wouldn't know a "right" if it bit them in their court briefs.
32 posted on 12/06/2002 1:17:50 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: CounterCounterCulture
Somebody who runs to us for protection from thier own govenment would be the most valuable, and loyal American you could have. We ALL are immigrants, best not forget it. (Well, being Cherokee. I ain't) All you palefaces need to look in the mirror and remember what America WAS all about.

Now it is all about 'DONT TOUCH NONE OF MY STASH' and 'HEY, I GOT MORE TOYS, SHOVE OFF'.

Crap, people, be human a bit...
33 posted on 12/06/2002 1:18:54 PM PST by American in Israel
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To: CounterCounterCulture
Okay, so where is NOW ranting and raving about this woman's 'reproductive rights'. I remember now - those rights don't include actually having children, only murdering them.
34 posted on 12/06/2002 1:20:05 PM PST by MEGoody
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To: American in Israel
I wonder what God thinks of this country when we won't protect a person running away from a country that not only promotes abortion but forces it on their women.

God help this country.

Of course it was Judges from the land of fruits & nuts that made this cruel ruling.

35 posted on 12/06/2002 1:26:03 PM PST by Kev-Head
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To: CounterCounterCulture
Sounds anti-woman to me. Where's the outrage from the N.O.W. hags and their ilk?

You are of course being droll. The N.O.W. hags secretly love forced abortion. (Just as they openly love non-forced abortion.)

N.O.W. hags emulate their founding goddess, Margaret Sanger: Abortion and sterilization imposed by a socialist totalitarian state, like Sanger's heroes, the Nazis, are a consummation devoutly to be wished.

36 posted on 12/06/2002 1:26:13 PM PST by shhrubbery!
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To: lepton
Please. Don't try to corrupt reality. China is OVERPOPULATED. So are the mega cities of the 3rd world. Living in elbow to elbow, tin roofed, plywood walled, squalor is immoral and so are the religious policies that lead to this. Life is too precious to be lived this way.
37 posted on 12/06/2002 1:27:40 PM PST by dennisw
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To: Bella_Bru
Funny, I don't see this outpouring of love and sentiment on FR when it comes to Mexican immigrants....

The last I heard, the Mexican government wasn't forcing people to have abortions and undergo sterilization.

38 posted on 12/06/2002 1:33:25 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: dennisw
"Living in elbow to elbow, tin roofed, plywood walled, squalor is immoral"

It's immoral to be poor? Good grief, you need a clue.

39 posted on 12/06/2002 1:33:37 PM PST by MEGoody
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To: CounterCounterCulture
I'm torn on this.

Clearly China's treatment is a violation of human rights and for any US judge to say it's not makes me wish that the judge's parents had been Chinese and the judge had not been born as a result.

However, I don't want 6 billion Chinese immigrating to the US, either.

I hope Bush puts some people on the bench that have a some semblance of morality and compassion and who aren't afraid to call a spade a spade. And that he also puts in place a reasonable immigration policy, that protects this countries culture.
40 posted on 12/06/2002 1:33:58 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: hopespringseternal
Ahhh...but they too are coming here for a better life to raise their kids (though you couldn't tell by a drive through East LA).

Are we going to let every Chinese citizen in who wants more than 1 child to come in? And then are we going to help pay for thweir kids, because, it is soooooo cruel to not help them out with some welfare.

41 posted on 12/06/2002 1:41:00 PM PST by Bella_Bru
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To: dennisw
How come the USA is supposed to be the safety valve for a Chinese birth German Jew control policy? I resent this. Rightly or wrongly the Chinese German government has a policy to prevent overpopulation provide lebensraum. Are we supposed to be the off loading zone for Chinese Jews who cannot abide by this policy?

Incidentally, Saint Franklin Delano Roosevelt agreed with you.

42 posted on 12/06/2002 1:43:21 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: dennisw
What about it do you think is reasonable? How is forced sterilization or forced abortion reasonable in any society?
43 posted on 12/06/2002 1:43:58 PM PST by agrace
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To: Bella_Bru
They are more likely (based on past experiences) to be wage earners and solid American citizens who appreciate family and value freedom ... something the left coast could use a whole lot more of and doesn't want to happen.
44 posted on 12/06/2002 1:44:34 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: MHGinTN
But just how many are you going to give asylum to? 1 million? Maybe 2?
45 posted on 12/06/2002 1:46:18 PM PST by Bella_Bru
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To: Bella_Bru
That would make up for the million or so we kill every year in "safe, legal" abortion facilities.
46 posted on 12/06/2002 1:49:54 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: Bella_Bru
Ahhh...but they too are coming here for a better life to raise their kids (though you couldn't tell by a drive through East LA).

"A better life" is not a good enough reason. Abortion and sterilization is.

Are we going to let every Chinese citizen in who wants more than 1 child to come in?

That does present a problem in the abstract. Absent any indication that a million a day are showing up, it doesn't seem to be a practical problem.

And then are we going to help pay for thweir kids, because, it is soooooo cruel to not help them out with some welfare.

No.

47 posted on 12/06/2002 1:51:45 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: agrace; ArrogantBustard
What about it do you think is reasonable? How is forced sterilization or forced abortion reasonable in any society?

Population control is reasonable in an overcrowded nation. I don't have a humane solution for those who rebel against such a policy and want to scam up an asylum claim here. All I know is some nations are becoming densely populated and there has to be some limit. The logical conclusion of your thinking is that there is no limit. That somehow the Lord will provide. That China can handle a population of 10 billion on up.
48 posted on 12/06/2002 1:51:59 PM PST by dennisw
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To: ArrogantBustard
OK. I happen to be Jewish. Got anything else to throw at me?
49 posted on 12/06/2002 1:53:01 PM PST by dennisw
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To: dennisw
I happen to be Jewish

Shalom. But for the purposes of debate, that's completely irrelevant. It's also an odd sort of argumentum ad hominem, in which you would (apparently) forbid me drawing certain historical parallels because of the ethnic/religious background of the one I'm debating. I don't accept that. Deal with it.

The historical facts remain: German Jews fled Nazi Germany, because the totalitarian dicator running the place wanted to kill them. Chinese are fleeing Communist China because the totalitarian dictator running the place wants to mutilate them and kill their children. (S)FDR really did turn away a literal boatload of Jews fleeing Nazi Germany. I've no interest in being to Red China as (S)FDR was to Nazi Germany. (S)FDR had possibly the excuse of not knowing what the Nazis were up to. We certainly do not have that excuse regarding Red China.

50 posted on 12/06/2002 2:04:58 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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