Cruise ship outbreak sickens 212

CNN ^ | 10 Dec 2002

[nicmarlo]

more interested in observing our reaction and response methodologies rather than making people sick. THIS time it's a practice-run. NEXT time, God help us.

I think this is the case....of course, they consistently observe the "denial" in the media and Administration/Gov't that "anything is terrorist related." Consistent denial; of course, this attitude of denial helps the terrorists, IMHO.

[Stefan Stackhouse]

But watch on the cruise ships for subtle changes, like silverware prepackaged in plastic bags after washing, and sterilization plate storage systems, perhaps monitors at salad bars and cafe lines (you request, they serve). They will make changes where they belive the infection entered the system without telling the press everything that they know. I am not even sure that I don't even agree with this approach, since creating widespread panic may do more harm than what they are doing.

And the question that inevitably comes to mind: Why haven't they already been doing this? Our nation has been "on alert - threat status 'elevated'" for over a year now. When are people going to start taking this seriously and getting their heads out of their rear ends?

[nicmarlo]

More on the Candian Hospital problem:

National Post

More hospitals hampered by norwalk virus
December 10, 2002

Two Toronto-area hospitals yesterday closed part of their operations and a third cancelled a seasonal event due to suspected outbreaks of the Norwalk virus, bringing to 11 the number of Southwestern Ontario hospitals that have been struck by the flu-like bug.

[nicmarlo]

Here's a site with some info on the Norwalk virus

Norwalk Virus Infection Information

How do people get Norwalk virus infection?

People get Norwalk virus infection by swallowing food or water that has been contaminated with stool from an infected person. Outbreaks in the United States are often linked to eating raw shellfish, especially oysters and clams. Shellfish become contaminated via stool from sick food handlers or from raw sewage dumped overboard by recreational and/or commercial boaters. Contaminated water, ice, eggs, salad ingredients, and ready-to-eat foods are other sources of infection.

[DCPatriot]

The Stand is a large novel where early-on, a deadly contagious virus is let loose in an airplane. The passengers transmit the disease in elevators, etc..

Pretty soon, the Lincoln Tunnel, etc., are filled with crashed automobiles filled with rotting corpses, making it impossible to escape the city.

I can't recall, but I believe cows or dogs or some specific animal was immune. King has a wry sense of humor.

But, it was a novel about Good vs. Evil.

[nicmarlo]

Of the survivors, those who serve G-d instinctively join in Boulder, Colorado, while those who worship the "Dark Man" are drawn to Las Vegas, Nevada. The two groups separately re-build society, until one must destroy the other.

Even with your memory jogger there, DC, it still wasn't clicking......then I found this on a web search. Ahh, now I remember.....(sheesh, I already knew I have "sometimers" (as opposed to Alzheimers), but this is ridiculous).

Yes, you're observations about this "mysterious" Norwalk flue to King's deadly flu, quite interesting. King's one of my favorites, and, yes, he does have quite a wry sense of humour.

[Trust but Verify]

Having a tiny percent chance of getting a two-day stomach flu is not going to prevent me from taking our yearly cruise. I suspect it wouldn't stop many others either.

If it is terrorism, they're going to have to spead something a lot more serious than flu to ruin the cruising industry..

[Trust but Verify]

spead=spread

[VRWC_minion]

Even a product of the United States Public School system would know that all these cruise ships coming down with viruses is *NOT* a coincidence.

Yes, but the many of these cruise ships port at the same places. This means that all sorts of commonalities could be responsible. Starting with the Miami airport where most passengers will pass through within the same 4 hour time span. The baggage handlers, the mass bus transporation and its bag handlers, the customs folks and the cruise staff at the ports, the food suppliers, the entertainers that go from ship to ship, not to mention the tours the passengers take at each port.

There are so many tangents where passengers on cruise ships can get infected by common sources that its still more than likely that these outbrakes are normal.

[fivecatsandadog]

Great movie and book. Randall Flagg (Jamey Sheridan) was the "evil one".

[Michael_Michaelangelo]

THIS time it's a practice-run. NEXT time, God help us.

No way. Nobody is testing anything. If they had the means, they would have blew their entire 'load' by now. The only thing 'testing' does is get your enemy better prepared and ready to kick your ass. No intelligent military planner would do such a thing. Now, I realize that most of these fanatics aren't very bright, but I guarantee you that there are still some pretty smart people calling the shots. The problem is, this is not the same world they floated around in freely 2 years ago. They are now under a microscope and being watched and eliminated.

I think the outbreak is not due to terrorism. I think we are systematically removing the foundation of terrorism and getting it under control. Ten years from now the results of the World's effort to defeat terrorism will be evident to all. Have faith in what our President and the Free World are doing to eliminate it. And remember to do your part.

FRegards, MM

[UKCajun]

The scenario seems plausible to me, and very, very, scary!

[UKCajun]

Another option:

A "Typhoid Mary" carrier and/or carriers who carry the disease, book cruises, and just walk around touching things and infecting people in close contact. The carrier is a "host" and shows no signs of illness and is in fact not ill; just a carrier.

I suspect the only way to protect against this scenario would be to "profile" cruise passengers and/or health screen prior to boarding.

[UKCajun]

"flu-like" bug

Bad news here guys. Real bad. What's the connection between this virus and Canada?

[UKCajun]

Could it be a warning shot across our bow from Sadaam: "This is a little taste of what I have in store for you if you invade..."

[Mo1]

I was thinking it had to be a food-service or kitchen worker, but you're probably right. How easy would it be for a passenger to sprinkle something at the salad bar, undetected and unsuspected?

Or have a person with this virus come on board and spread it to the other passengers like a cold would ..

The fact that this is mainly happening on cruise ships should throw up a red flag

[Michael_Michaelangelo]

If it was, then we probably already know that, and have either retaliated already or are planning to. Our Special Ops groups and those of our allies are on stand-by, waiting for orders. And they usually aren't called in to action to go negotiate. Furthermore, they are in Saddam's back pocket in more ways than we know, so if he is pulling the strings, then he's really cooking his own (and those of his loved ones) goose.

[nicmarlo]

If it is terrorism, they're going to have to spead something a lot more serious than flu to ruin the cruising industry..

Let's suppose this flu is no mere accident or coincidence or even a "natural" event, although, it may well be. We know it is occurring on cruise ships and Canadian hospitals.

Cruise ships: an mini island, if you will (lots of elderly people, low resistance to infections; the fact that it is a high containment area would seem to make people more vulnerable to catching something infectious).
Hospitals: a "sanitary" island, if you will (yes, I am quite aware of the lethal pneumonia one can contract in hospitals. But it's still a place where there's lots of precautions taken, i.e., scrubbing, sanitary clothing, limited access to certain areas, and extended stays, in some cases, because of surgery, etc. There are all types of people in hospitals, but mostly those more vulnerable due to ill health or injury....[thinking out loud here])
Canada: (I can only think right now of a tie in because of convenience, i.e., open immigration policy, much more so than U.S. right now.)

Hospitals and cruise ships may be the perfect first step in tests re viral infection/spread. The flu virus, I would think, is spread the way most viral infections are spread, but would draw the least attention because it's "normal" to get the flu. Something more rare, but still a virus, would attract greater attention and suspicion; something they want to avoid right now, while they're testing and gathering info. on reaction/response.

It may well be that something deadlier than the "simple flu" virus will be used in the future, once they've perfected their techniques by using the Norwalk flu virus first, of course.

[UKCajun]

"The fact that this is mainly happening on cruise ships should throw up a red flag"

Don't forget the previous post--11 hospitals in Canada! Post 64