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The Lott Problem & A Solution
The Democrat Party's Long and Shameful History of Bigotry and Racism ^
Posted on 12/13/2002 2:06:35 AM PST by Republican_Strategist
The Lott Gaffe
[Emphasis 1] - What Trent Lott said was incredibly stupid. He said, "I want to say this about my state (Mississippi): When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either."
[Emphasis 2] - What makes that an incredibly stupid comment was that Strom Thurmond ran as a Democrat on a segregationist ticket. We shouldnt be proud of it. And it surely would have led us to be problem free. And no one should be proud that they voted for him.
[Emphasis 3] - The comment really was not intended to be racist. What Lott was doing was taking part in Strom Thurmonds birthday party trying to be humorous and he was trying to flatter him with that gaffe rather than trying to proclaim that America needs segregation.
[Emphasis 4] - People like Paul M. Weyrich of the Free Congress that have known Lott have vouched that he is no racist and has never made any racist comments. He innocently made a politically incorrect joke.
[Emphasis 5] - Democrats and the Liberal Media are only using this as part of a systematic campaign of demagoguery so that they can constantly refer to republicans as being racist and keep minorities in a state of fear so that they will continue to blindly vote for Democrats.
[Emphasis 6] - This is just racial paranoia. It wasnt like Lott was serious or as if he was making the first item of the new year, say, repealing the Civil Rights Act or something like that. This is hysteria courtesy of the racial sensitivity police.
[Emphasis 7] - We need to put an end to this battered republican syndrome and stand up to the Left and quit letting them intimidate us with these overblown attacks over harmless jokes and we should quit trying to constantly appease them with repeated apologies.
[Emphasis 8] - Lets get back to politics rather than allowing liberals to distract us with their politics of personal destruction. Lets talk about unilaterally going to war with Iraq, lets talk about abolishing income tax, lets talk about abolishing social security, and lets get back to restoring America.
[Emphasis 9] - Democrats are crybabies, whiners, and moaners. They will harp about this endlessly and the media will be like a DNC automation. The N.Y. Times maybe will even start a campaign against republicans demanding appeasement in the form of a tax increase or that we apologize to Clinton for trying to impeach him for breaking the law.
[Emphasis 10] Dont let democrats make victims out of you! Be vigilant!
1) Republicans need to quit rid of Lott. They should make it clear that there is a sizable majority of republicans that are fed up or lack confidence in his leadership (if you choose to call it that). They should highlight his bungling of the impeachment trial, his conciliatory attitude as far as trying to be nice to Daschle, and his general spinelessness. They should make it clear it wasnt because he made an innocent joke to make a hundred year old man happy on his birthday.
2) Republicans need to highlight the hypocrisy and selective moral outrage on the part of the Democrats.
3) Republicans need to make the case that the media firestorm over this stupid, innocent joke however politically incorrect is a prime example of the medias overly liberal bias.
4) Republicans need to quit being all so willing to just call for Lotts head on a platter and they need to quit trying to appease the racial sensitivity police with such preemptive actions.
5) The Republicans need to highlight their partys history of being the backers that made legislation like the 1964 Civil Rights Act pass while highlighting it was the Democratic Party that has a long history of racism and bigotry.
6) Republicans need to highlight policies like affirmative action and so forth are inherently racist. Republicans need to do a better job of pointing out things like 85% of racial violence being black on white while illustrating individuals like Michael Moore have written books that are undoubtedly racist with titles like Stupid White Men.
7) We have the White House, we have the House, and we have the Senate. Lets use them and get our political agenda rolling. Lets start by getting rid of the abortion slaughter and nominating extremely conservative judges.
[Double Standard] - At the 1993 birthday party of J. William Fulbright, Clinton said, The American political system produced this remarkable man, and my state did, and I'm real proud of it. Clinton bestowed the Presidential Medal of Freedom on Fulbright who he described as a visionary humanitarian, a steadfast supporter of the values of education, and 'my mentor.'
[Double Standard] - October 22, 2002, Bill Clinton traveled to Fayetteville, Arkansas to honor the life of the late Arkansas senator, J. William Fulbright by dedicating a seven-foot-tall bronze statue of the man. Clinton said, "If [Fulbright] were here today, I'm sure he would caution us not to be too utopian in our expectations, but rather utopian in our values and vision."
[Double Standard] - Gore family's African-American former maid, who complained in the midst of the 2000 presidential campaign that young Al's mom and dad used to make her wait in their hot car during the 1950s while the family ate in "whites only" restaurants.
[Double Standard] - On CBS, both liberals Dan Rather and Mike Wallace made racially insensitive comments. Rather said on air, "What happened was they [CBS management] got the willies, they got the Buckwheats. Their knees wobbled and we gave it up." Wallace once said, with film rolling, that Blacks and Hispanics had difficulty filling our loan applications. According to Wallace, they were simply too busy eating watermelons and tacos to learn how to read and write.
[Double Standard] - Gores Campaign Manager Donna Brazille, told the Washington Post, that she was going to beat the "white boys."
[Double Standard] - Liberal Hero & Communist FDR appointed two notorious segregationists to the United States Supreme Court. Roosevelt appointed South Carolina segregationist Democrat Jimmy Byrnes to the court. Roosevelt later made Byrnes a top advisor, where the segregationist earned the nickname assistant president. Byrnes was also Roosevelts second choice behind Harry Truman for the VP nod in his 1944 reelection bid. Roosevelt also appointed segregationist Democrat Senator Hugo Black of Alabama to the court. Black was a former member of the Ku Klux Klan with a notorious record of racism himself.
[Double Standard] - Democratic Senator Robert Byrd is a former member of the Ku Klux Klan and is currently the only national elected official with a history in the Klan, a well known hate group. Byrd was extremely active in the Klan and rose to the rank of Kleagle, an official Klan membership recruiter. Last year, in an interview on the Fox News Channel, he used the term white niggers on air.
[Double Standard] - Senator Ernest Hollings is the liberal Democratic Senator from South Carolina who is also notorious for his use of racial slurs. Hollings has reportedly used the slur "wetbacks" to derogatorily refer to Hispanics and "darkies" to derogatorily refer to blacks. Hollings was also the Governor of South Carolina who raised the confederate flag over the state capitol in the early 1960's in what was considered at the time to be an act of defiance to civil rights. The press ignored Hollings and his role in the flag issue at the same time the political correctness police were smearing George W. Bush during his campaign after Bush correctly remarked that the flag was a state issue to be decided upon by South Carolina and not the national government.
[Double Standard] - Dick Gephardt, the former Democrat Minority Leader in the U.S. House of Representatives, gave several speeches to a St. Louis area hate group during his early years as a representative. According to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Gephardt spoke to the Metro South Citizens Council, a now defunct white supremacist organization.
[Double Standard] - Jesse Jackson has a history of using anti-Semitic slurs and derogatorily calling New York City Hymietown. Jackson, a prominent self proclaimed "civil rights leader," is himself guilty of the same bigotry he dishonestly purports to oppose.
[Double Standard] - Cragg Hines used the racial slur "cracker" to attack Helms. He used the epithet not only within the article's text, but he even included it in the piece's title. Hines is one of the most rabidly partisan DC based Democrat editorial columnists to work for a major newspaper, and he makes no attempts to hide it.
[Double Standard] - Al Sharpton, a perrenial Democrat candidate and one of the rumored candidates for the Democrat's 2004 presidential nomination, has a notorious racist past. Sharpton was a central figure who fanned the 1991 Crown Heights race riot, where a mob shouting anti-semetic slurs murdered an innocent Jewish man. Sharpton also incited a 1995 protest of a Jewish owned store in Harlem where protesters used several anti-semetic slurs. During the protests, a Sharpton lieutenant called the store's owner a "bloodsucker" and declared an intent to "loot the Jews." A member of the protest mob later set fire to the store, resulting in the death of seven.
[Double Standard] - Andrew Cuomo, Bill Clinton's former Housing Secretary and a prominent Democrat political player in New York, was tape recorded using racially inflamatory rhetoric to build opposition to a potential Democrat primary opponent while speaking to a Democrat group. Cuomo stated that voting for his rival for the New York Democrat gubernatorial nomination Carl McCall, who is black, would create a "racial contract" between Black and Hispanic Democrats "and that can't happen." Upon initial reports, Cuomo denied the statement but later a tape recording surfaced. Cuomo later dropped out of the race for governor.
[Double Standard] - Lee Brown, Bill Clinton's former drug czar and Democrat mayor of Houston, engaged in racist campaigning designed to suppress Hispanic voter turnout during his 2001 reelection bid. Brown faced challenger Orlando Sanchez, a Hispanic Republican who drew heavy support from the Hispanic community during the general election. Two weeks prior to the runoff, Brown's campaign printed racist signs designed to intimidate Hispanic voters. The signs featured a photograph of Sanchez and the words "Anti-Hispanic."
[Double Standard] - Mary Frances Berry is the Democrat chair of the US Commission on Civil Rights (USCCR). She purports herself to be an "independent" in her political affiliation in order to hold her job on the civil rights commission where partisan membership may not exceed 4 for either party, but is in fact a dedicated liberal Democrat who openly supported Al Gore for president and has given a total of $20,000 in personal contributions to the Democrat Party, Al Gore for President, and other Democrat candidates over the last decade. Berry is an open racist who is affiliated with the far-left Pacifica radio network, a group with ties to black nationalist causes. Berry once stated "Civil rights laws were not passed to protect the rights of white men and do not apply to them," indicating that she believes the USCCR should only look out for civil rights violations against persons of certain select skin colors.
[Double Standard] - Former Democrat State Representative Billy McKinney of Georgia, who is also the father of former Democrat congresswoman Cynthia McKinney of the same state. During his daughter's failed 2002 reelection bid, McKinney appeared on television where he blamed his daughter's difficulties on a Jewish conspiracy. McKinney unleashed a string of anti-semitic sentiments, stating "This is all about the Jews" and spelling out "J-E-W-S." McKinney lost his own seat in a runoff a few weeks later.
The Democrat Party and the Ku Klux Klan
Aside from the multiple Klan members who have served in elected capacity within the high ranks of the Democrat Party, the political party itself has a lengthy but often overlooked history of involvement with the Ku Klux Klan. Though it has been all but forgotten by the media, the Democrat National Convention of 1924 was host to one of the largest Klan gatherings in American history. Dubbed the "Klanbake convention" at the time, the 1924 Democrat National Convention in New York was dominated by a platform dispute surrounding the Ku Klux Klan. A minority of the delegates to the convention attempted to condemn the hate group in the party's platform, but found their proposal shot down by Klan supporters within the party. As delegates inside the convention voted in the Klan's favor, the Klan itself mobilized a celebratory rally outside. On July 4, 1924 one of the largest Klan gatherings ever occurred outside the convention on a field in nearby New Jersey. The event was marked by speakers spewing racial hatred, celebrations of their platform victory in the Democrat Convention, and ended in a cross burning.
For more information on the Democratic opposition to civil rights and their history of racism and bigotry, go to The Democrat Party's Long and Shameful History of Bigotry and Racism
TOPICS: Culture/Society; Free Republic; News/Current Events
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That was sweet. Thanks. Truth is, I am a conservative Republican, but a practical one like Reagan and GWB, not a radical one. Therein lies the rub.
Thanks for the info--I'm filing it away for future reference!! Rush really had the perfect solution (LOL): Trent Lott could make the "racist" problem go away in one day easily. How? Changing parties and becoming a Democrat.
I have believed in abolishing the income tax (taxing production) for decades. In fact, the Bush administration has been working on simplifying the tax code as a prelude to a national debate on whether to abolish the income tax altogether and what other system of taxation should be put in its place.
No, Bush hasnt started any national debate other than trumpeting his flawed, piddly tax cut. He has made no mention of abolishing income tax.
Ted didn't write the parts that mandate testing and accountability with disaggregated reporting of results nor the parts that train teachers in real teaching methods.
Well, you say that, but President Bush says the opposite. Who am I to believe. You havent addressed the crux of Bushs plan is empowering an unconstitutional department of education and increasing spending.
He did fight it and did speak out against it. But knitting back the nation's wounds from 9/11 took precedent over making you deliriously happy.
He didnt fight it, he didnt try to make a case to the American people, and he ended up rubber stamping it. And why do you think you can excuse his federalizing airline workers or having the government takeover industry just because Islamic terrorist attack America? Then your defensive mechanism really kicks it and you pretend like I just want him to make me happy because I demand leadership.
Yep, I'm in the dark on that, even though I watch O'Reilly almost every day.
Well, OReilly covered it on his radio program and on his television show, he did mention that several times, but you are in the dark.
Bush's strategy has gained Republicans control of the Senate, whatever you think about his decision on signing CFR and letting the Supremes sort it out or his decision not to stir up the recriminations pot and trade accusations and acrimony with the Dems over Clinton's past sins. Without this strategy, Republicans would not now have control of the Senate, which you are fighting so hard to throw away right now.
Bush has had a strategy of no leadership and he caves constantly to the Democrats and because that coincides with the republicans barely taking back the Senate, you pretend like that excuses abandoning principles. I dont want my leader saying CFR is unconstitutional and then being too gutless to veto it. Im glad to see you dont care about Clinton selling pardons and Bushs refusal to even prosecute it, you set such high standards for your elected officials. And you without any evidence you suggest that is why Bush won because he basically took a left turn and that exposes you for the RINO that you are. Maybe this is why the majority of America stays home on election day.
Could we pretty please just get the judges through before you demand Lott's head?
I said, Republicans need to quit being all so willing to just call for Lotts head on a platter and they need to quit trying to appease the racial sensitivity police with such preemptive actions. Obviously you never bothered reading any of my post. We can get our judges and we can get judicial nominations. You are trying to create a false dilemma. Are those nominees going to be like Ashcroft pledging that Roe v.s Wade is the law of the land? The President also had harsh words for Lott.
Yep, it worked. So you think that is a rebuttal to my comments on the Farm Bill by just saying it worked? I guess you like higher taxes, higher food prices, and you just adore socialism because
.it works according to you.
I adore her. You adore Ann Coulter, what a shock! Shes ideologically on my level and you say you adore her
what a shocker.
You don't remember the Republican party of Eisenhower and Rockefeller, do you? You would call Ike a RINO and Rockefeller a liberal infiltrator, when he was probably closer to Teddy Roosevelt than any Republican you know. Well, you have to go back a long way dont you. I wonder why you skipped over Ronald Reagan? I guess you dont like conservatives.
No, prescription drug coverage is a lousy idea but like the farm bill, it was the price we paid to win Florida in 2000. And yes, the Faustian pact allows us to cut the scale of what the Dems would have passed if Gore had won. I just love you unprincipled RINOs explaining to us that we need to propose socialism in order to keep the socialists from winning. You have plenty of excuses dont you?
We have leadership. It's not what you want, but then you have admitted you are not a Republican at heart. It's what a majority of Americans want. Government of the people, not of the extremists.
No, you are a socialist my friend. You have no core beliefs and you are perfectly willing to embrace extremism like socialism because you think it wins you elections. You seem to think that my view, the founding fathers, about a small limited government adhering to the Constitution is extreme and that is the largest error in your logic. That must be why the majority of Americans stay at home when your sort of candidates are up for election.
As for the Democrats, they hate me more than you do. I believe in a strong national defense and saying the pledge of allegiance in schools. I am an NRA member and believe the Second Amendment is more important than any other part of the Constitution. I am pro-life. I believe X42 is a sociopath and committed rape and treason and perjury, among other more petty crimes, and would never have taken office in the first place in 1992 if people had not voted for pie in the sky and an chance to check under the hood and see the crazy aunt in the attic. And in 1996, I found out that when Lincoln said "you can fool some of the people all the time" he had no idea how very many people that was.
I believe in a strong national defense. You seem to create differentiations where none exists. I believe in getting the federal government out of the school, but you think believing in saying the pledge alone is good enough. I believe in abolishing all gun laws, do you? I believe abortion is unconstitutional, what about you? Bushs father lost because he broke his promise and he raised taxes throwing 19% of the vote to Perot.
I close with some words of that RINO who infected the Republican Party, President Ronald Reagan.
No, Ronald Reagan saw the light and he came to completely repudiate liberalism where as you think putting an R beside your name and advocating the same things that reek of socialism in order to win is okay.
"When I began entering into the give and take of legislative bargaining in Sacramento, a lot of the most radical conservatives who had supported me during the election didn't like it. "Compromise" was a dirty word to them and they wouldn't face the fact that we couldn't get all of what we wanted today. They wanted all or nothing and they wanted it all at once. If you don't get it all, some said, don't take anything.
I think income tax is radical seeing how it is paramount to legalized theft and then people like Bush give $500 million for AIDS in Africa. I mean, id you believe that income tax or social security is basically theft, then how can you compromise you principles and agree to some theft. People like you need to be weeded out of the party.
"I'd learned while negotiating union contracts that you seldom got everything you asked for. And I agreed with FDR, who said in 1933: 'I have no expectations of making a hit every time I come to bat. What I seek is the highest possible batting average.'
FDR was a communist and he left a horrible legacy of government control.
"If you got seventy-five or eighty percent of what you were asking for, I say, you take it and fight for the rest later, and that's what I told these radical conservatives who never got used to it." Ronald Reagan, from his autobiography, An American Life
Problem is we are not getting beyond 15% of our agenda and you pretend like that is fine.
I find nothing insightful about a guy who says that the Farm Bill, which is precisely the same as soviet-style planning, raises taxes on the average family, raises food prices, and give tax dollars to members of Congress, Fortune 500 companies, and wealthy basketball players because he has to create this idiotic lie that is the reason Bush won the 2000 election.
You are a person without principles. Therein lies the problem.
WATTS UPSET WITH GORE'S BLACK CAMPAIGN MANAGER
Oklahoma Congressman J.C. Watts has reportedly fired off a letter to Vice President Al Gore complaining about remarks made by Gore's campaign manager, Donna Brazile.
Watts took issue with remarks attributed to Brazile in a Washington press report. Brazile, a black woman with ties to several activists in Oklahoma, reportedly said the Republican Party is more concerned with taking pictures with black children than feeding them. Gore's campaign manager reportedly said the Republican Party has no program to offer African Americans.
The Oklahoma Congressman wrote to Gore that he considered Brazile's comments racist. Watts pointed out his only family background and touted his "American Community Renewal Act" proposal which would give assistance to inner cities. The proposal has not been passed by Watts' Republican party.
When contacted about Watts' letter to Gore, Brazile said the Washington news article took her remarks out of context, and said that Watts was a fine Congressman. (Posted 1-6-00
Donna also made some stupid comment about no letting those "White Boys" win.
I have no credibility? You friend here, who you think is so insightful, then let me post a quote and completely prove you nor your friend have any credibility. He said, I have never called myself a conservative. I am a Republican and maybe the only one on this thread. I believe that to be a conservative you have to be in favor of stoning gays and shooting Mexican men and women at the border, and I am a Christian and thus don't qualify. it is that sort of patent nonsense Im having to deal with. His self-proclaimed practicality is fantasy of his own making.
I think you are a principled realist.
I just heard a few minutes of Jonah Goldberg on C-SPAN this morning when he answered a caller about the position of Majority Leader. He made points that need to be more widely understood and discussed on fora such as Free Republic.
He said Majority Leader is a terrible job because it is one of constant compromise and deal making. It can only be handled by someone who does not stand nearer the edges of the Party. I had not thought of that angle, but I had realized that in order BE elected the ML one would have to get the votes of all the Republicans in the Senate. One Lincoln Chafee or McCain could threaten to withhold his vote from a more rigid candidate.
posted on 12/13/2002 6:28:55 AM PST
To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Problem and Solution: I think it would be interesting if we simply combine a demand that all senators with racial problems all step down from their committee chairs at the same time. That makes the message even more clear. Everyone should be held to the same standard at the same time. Hollings, Clinton, Byrd, and Lott.
posted on 12/13/2002 7:58:32 AM PST
All of which you conceive to be a diabolical scheme to get power when Im interested in empowering the people as the founding fathers did. I suppose the fact that America is a Christian nation and the bible was the most cited by the founding fathers really must erk you.
That many of the founding fathers were Deists, not Christians, knocks the legs out of that argument. Nice try.
To: Republican_Strategist; patriciaruth; Arthur Wildfire! March; RaceBannon; lainde; Admin Moderator; ..
Also check this out: Michael Zak's excellent book, Republican Basics
. Democrats have been "slavocrats" since before they even existed as a political party. You can read the introduction by clicking the aformentioned hyperlink. Highly recommended reading!
posted on 12/13/2002 9:21:19 AM PST
To: Republican_Strategist; All
posted on 12/13/2002 9:32:13 AM PST
How can you say he is a principled realist when this individual has stated he is willing to toss aside principled beliefs in the name of winning? And he isnt realistic. Is he realistic because he thinks embracing socialism like the Farm Bill won republicans an election? The problem is there is almost no voice on the right for people who want to say abolish social security, the democrats will defend it till times end, and this guy think we have capitulate to the democrats rather than fight for our principled beliefs. Hes like one of these people that thinks if you give the Palestinians a state, then terrorism will end, and peace in the Middle East will begin. What you call compromise is really appeasement.
To: Young Rhino
When Washington was inaugurated the first President of the United States in New York in 1789, a public prayer meeting was conducted to commit the new nation to the "blessings of the Creator." Later the same year, on October 3, 1789, President Washington issued a Thanksgiving Proclamation. The document begins,
Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor ... Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be -...
James Madison, the fourth president and the Father of the Constitution said,
The future and success of America is not in this Constitution but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded.
John Jay was the first Chief Justice of he Supreme Court. He said, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
Fifty-three of the fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence were reportedly Christians.
John Dickinson said, "To my Creator, I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity."
Gabriel Duvall, later a delegate to the Constitutional Convention and an appointee to the Supreme Court said, "I resign my soul into the hands of the Almighty who gave it in humble hopes of his mercy through our Savior Jesus Christ."
And lastly, John Witherspoon, pastor and President of New Jersey College (Princeton University today) said, "I shall entreat ... you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for there is no salvation in any other" [Acts 4:12] ... [I] f you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must forever perish."
Political Science professors at the University of Houston, curious about who influenced the founders, gathered 15,000 quotes made by them. The effort took over ten years. They reduced the number to those that had a significant impact on the founding fathers and the result was 3,154 quotes. They determined that the Bible was quoted far more than any other source. Thirty-four percent of all quotes were from the Bible, and another 60% of the quotes were from men who were using the Bible to make their point. God's word was important to the nation's founders.
It was not just the founding fathers who expressed their Christian beliefs or recognition in the value of Christian principles as fundamental to the nation. Many of the leaders who followed and influenced this nation were Christians. Andrew Jackson, president and military hero of the War of 1812, said, "The Bible is the rock upon which this Republic stands."
Abraham Lincoln, preserver of the Union said, "I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book."
Woodrow Wilson said in a 1911 pre-presidential campaign speech,
America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness, which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures. ...Part of the destiny of Americans lies in their daily perusal of this great book of revelations. That if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Members of the Supreme Court have acknowledged the significance of our Christian heritage. Some historians recognize John Marshall the greatest Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. He established the authority of the Court as a strong independent third branch of government. He said in a letter to Jasper Adams on May 9, 1833
The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it.
The very first Congress of the United States allocated money to print and distribute Bibles throughout the nation.
During the War of Independence, Congress allocated money for the import of 20,000 copies of the Bible.
In 1787, the same year the Constitution was approved, Congress passed the Northwest Ordinance, one of the most important pieces of legislation because it was the blueprint for admitting new states into the Union. One of the provisions was that new states had to encourage education. Why? Because religion and morality were absolutely necessary for self-governing people.
The treaty between the colonies and Great Britain ending the War of Independence began "In the name of the Most Holy and undivided Trinity ..."
The Constitution expressly exempted Sunday as a work day for the president in the article concerning vetoes of legislation.
General George Washington required all of his men to attend Sunday services.
Every president since Washington, has when taking the oath of office, said, with his hand on the Bible: "... so help me God."
Since the days of the colonial army, chaplains have been required. Initially, during the days of the founders, those chaplains were all Christians.
You said, "That many of the founding fathers were Deists, not Christians, knocks the legs out of that argument. Nice try."
No, you basically took the last sentence of my argument and then you told a complete lie that the founding fathers were not Christians. I have now refuted that lie and proven you have no credibility.
I did not state that all founding fathers were Deists. I said that many were Deists. You were the clymer who insisted that all founding fathers were Christian.
As for Washington insisting on Sunday worship, anyone familar with the Masons would know it has nothing to do with Christianity...predates it by thousands of years as a matter of fact.
To: Young Rhino
Fifty-three of the fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence were Christians. Like I said....you lost the debate.
To: Republican_Strategist; maica
Time for your education. Before we get started, let me point out that Woodrow Wilson was not a founding father. He was, like you, attempting to use fables as a means to acquire power.
Now let's tackle your little fable about all founding fathers being Christians. Here are a few relevant excerpts from "The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians"
by Steven Morris, in Free Inquiry, Fall, 1995...better pray before you read this.
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.
George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance. George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)
John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." The Character of John Adams by Peter Shaw, pp. 17 (1976, North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC) Quoting a letter by JA to Charles Cushing Oct 19, 1756, and John Adams, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by James Peabody, p. 403 (1973, Newsweek, New York NY) Quoting letter by JA to Jefferson April 19, 1817, and in reference to the treaty, Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 311 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June, 1814.
Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote: The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained." From: Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said: As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1790.
James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.
Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
From: Religion of the American Enlightenment by G. Adolph Koch, p. 40 (1968, Thomas Crowell Co., New York, NY.) quoting preface and p. 352 of Reason, the Only Oracle of Man and A Sense of History compiled by American Heritage Press Inc., p. 103 (1985, American Heritage Press, Inc., New York, NY.)
Thomas Paine: I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." The Age of Reason, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)
Better pray some more...then go sacrifice a few chickens with your fellow dupes.
Thanks for a good rundown, but I humbly disagree that Lott ought to step down. His remembrance of Strom Thurmond was not as someone who ran on a segregationist platform, but was recalling the entirety of his public career. That totality contained far more proAmerican items such as fighting for a strong defense and foreign policy, than items which were in any way racist. This is the only tack that needs to be taken, and by doing so, we must refute the liberal media's attempts to tar Lott and in doing so attempting to bring down the whole party.
posted on 12/14/2002 5:56:28 AM PST
I love the cant exhibited,in America, about racial matters. So called racism is by implication worse than arson, burglary, murder, rape, robbery, sodomy and especially worse than the crimes of sedition and treason. The flap over Lott has as its ultimate goal the return of the senate to the Democrats by forcing Lotts resignation.
To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
The flap over Lott has as its ultimate goal the return of the senate to the Democrats by forcing Lotts resignation.
Absolutely true. We can't give an inch on this, regardless what we think of Lott.
It simply boggles the mind, that he would be hounded out of office because of what somebody inferred from his remarks.
posted on 12/14/2002 1:14:49 PM PST
Do you agree with him (Bush) making a deal not to prosecute the Clintons? I've had about enough of your brand of 'Republican Strategist' bilge. Prove your assertion or be known for the chaos operative you now appear to be. [And I'm not referring to the Maxwell Smart C.H.A.O.S. You're sounding more and more like anything but a Republican. Prove your assertion that Bush made any deal with the corrupt clintons, weasel.]
posted on 12/15/2002 7:30:33 PM PST
Perhaps he is misremembering and he really means Lott's refusal to step up to the plate on the impeachment. That sounds like a sellout to the Clintons to me. Another reason Lott should go. Read Shippers' book.
posted on 12/15/2002 7:36:01 PM PST
I agree with that, Inkie, if that's what RS meant to say. And if he/she miss-spoke, I'll apologize forthwith. I won't sit quietly while folks make up lies about this president, even with his faults. He's our commander-in-chief and we're at war for our very survival. Undermining the nation's confidence is the democrat methodology and I'm about sick of it spewing here at FR.
posted on 12/15/2002 7:44:34 PM PST
The Stupid Party appears to be following your advice, which is pretty predictable since it's right out of their SOP manual. This is a losing approach, and has been for many years. The fact that so many conservatives can't understand this is one of the primary reasons why many of us call the party they give undeserved loyalty to the Stupid Party. I'm no fan of Trent Lott; IMHO he epitomizes what's wrong with the Stupid Party. However, his "crime" was making a statement which members of the Evil Party find "offensive." Why not try countering this p.c. nonsense with a simple; "What part of the Bill of Rights don't you understand?" "Why don't you provide us with a list of words, statements, jokes and expressions which you find offensive and undeserving of constitutional protection?" Make this a civil liberties/free speech issue and stop apologizing every second! Not that I care, of course.
In San Francisco, the Gay community more or less "stones" itself on a regular basis, and as far as shooting illegals, I figure its only O.K. to return fire.
As to the Lott thing, you have some valid points; I am not sure if Republicans (of which I am one) have thought this out to one possible logical conclusion:
Lott is removed as Senate Majority leader. Lott then quits Senate rather than face disgrace. Mississippi governor appoints demonRAT to fill Lott's term which is up in 2006; Senate again becomes 50-50 with true RINOS like Spector, Chafee and Snow voting along with Jeffords with the RATS; Bush again stymied by the Senate, unable to fill judicial vacancies. Do we want this?
posted on 12/16/2002 11:53:30 AM PST
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