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The Lott Problem & A Solution
The Democrat Party's Long and Shameful History of Bigotry and Racism ^
Posted on 12/13/2002 2:06:35 AM PST by Republican_Strategist
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All of which you conceive to be a diabolical scheme to get power when Im interested in empowering the people as the founding fathers did. I suppose the fact that America is a Christian nation and the bible was the most cited by the founding fathers really must erk you.
That many of the founding fathers were Deists, not Christians, knocks the legs out of that argument. Nice try.
To: Republican_Strategist; patriciaruth; Arthur Wildfire! March; RaceBannon; lainde; Admin Moderator; ..
Also check this out: Michael Zak's excellent book, Republican Basics
. Democrats have been "slavocrats" since before they even existed as a political party. You can read the introduction by clicking the aformentioned hyperlink. Highly recommended reading!
posted on 12/13/2002 9:21:19 AM PST
To: Republican_Strategist; All
posted on 12/13/2002 9:32:13 AM PST
How can you say he is a principled realist when this individual has stated he is willing to toss aside principled beliefs in the name of winning? And he isnt realistic. Is he realistic because he thinks embracing socialism like the Farm Bill won republicans an election? The problem is there is almost no voice on the right for people who want to say abolish social security, the democrats will defend it till times end, and this guy think we have capitulate to the democrats rather than fight for our principled beliefs. Hes like one of these people that thinks if you give the Palestinians a state, then terrorism will end, and peace in the Middle East will begin. What you call compromise is really appeasement.
To: Young Rhino
When Washington was inaugurated the first President of the United States in New York in 1789, a public prayer meeting was conducted to commit the new nation to the "blessings of the Creator." Later the same year, on October 3, 1789, President Washington issued a Thanksgiving Proclamation. The document begins,
Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor ... Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be -...
James Madison, the fourth president and the Father of the Constitution said,
The future and success of America is not in this Constitution but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded.
John Jay was the first Chief Justice of he Supreme Court. He said, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
Fifty-three of the fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence were reportedly Christians.
John Dickinson said, "To my Creator, I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity."
Gabriel Duvall, later a delegate to the Constitutional Convention and an appointee to the Supreme Court said, "I resign my soul into the hands of the Almighty who gave it in humble hopes of his mercy through our Savior Jesus Christ."
And lastly, John Witherspoon, pastor and President of New Jersey College (Princeton University today) said, "I shall entreat ... you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for there is no salvation in any other" [Acts 4:12] ... [I] f you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must forever perish."
Political Science professors at the University of Houston, curious about who influenced the founders, gathered 15,000 quotes made by them. The effort took over ten years. They reduced the number to those that had a significant impact on the founding fathers and the result was 3,154 quotes. They determined that the Bible was quoted far more than any other source. Thirty-four percent of all quotes were from the Bible, and another 60% of the quotes were from men who were using the Bible to make their point. God's word was important to the nation's founders.
It was not just the founding fathers who expressed their Christian beliefs or recognition in the value of Christian principles as fundamental to the nation. Many of the leaders who followed and influenced this nation were Christians. Andrew Jackson, president and military hero of the War of 1812, said, "The Bible is the rock upon which this Republic stands."
Abraham Lincoln, preserver of the Union said, "I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book."
Woodrow Wilson said in a 1911 pre-presidential campaign speech,
America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness, which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures. ...Part of the destiny of Americans lies in their daily perusal of this great book of revelations. That if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Members of the Supreme Court have acknowledged the significance of our Christian heritage. Some historians recognize John Marshall the greatest Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. He established the authority of the Court as a strong independent third branch of government. He said in a letter to Jasper Adams on May 9, 1833
The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it.
The very first Congress of the United States allocated money to print and distribute Bibles throughout the nation.
During the War of Independence, Congress allocated money for the import of 20,000 copies of the Bible.
In 1787, the same year the Constitution was approved, Congress passed the Northwest Ordinance, one of the most important pieces of legislation because it was the blueprint for admitting new states into the Union. One of the provisions was that new states had to encourage education. Why? Because religion and morality were absolutely necessary for self-governing people.
The treaty between the colonies and Great Britain ending the War of Independence began "In the name of the Most Holy and undivided Trinity ..."
The Constitution expressly exempted Sunday as a work day for the president in the article concerning vetoes of legislation.
General George Washington required all of his men to attend Sunday services.
Every president since Washington, has when taking the oath of office, said, with his hand on the Bible: "... so help me God."
Since the days of the colonial army, chaplains have been required. Initially, during the days of the founders, those chaplains were all Christians.
You said, "That many of the founding fathers were Deists, not Christians, knocks the legs out of that argument. Nice try."
No, you basically took the last sentence of my argument and then you told a complete lie that the founding fathers were not Christians. I have now refuted that lie and proven you have no credibility.
I did not state that all founding fathers were Deists. I said that many were Deists. You were the clymer who insisted that all founding fathers were Christian.
As for Washington insisting on Sunday worship, anyone familar with the Masons would know it has nothing to do with Christianity...predates it by thousands of years as a matter of fact.
To: Young Rhino
Fifty-three of the fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence were Christians. Like I said....you lost the debate.
To: Republican_Strategist; maica
Time for your education. Before we get started, let me point out that Woodrow Wilson was not a founding father. He was, like you, attempting to use fables as a means to acquire power.
Now let's tackle your little fable about all founding fathers being Christians. Here are a few relevant excerpts from "The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians"
by Steven Morris, in Free Inquiry, Fall, 1995...better pray before you read this.
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.
George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance. George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)
John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." The Character of John Adams by Peter Shaw, pp. 17 (1976, North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC) Quoting a letter by JA to Charles Cushing Oct 19, 1756, and John Adams, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by James Peabody, p. 403 (1973, Newsweek, New York NY) Quoting letter by JA to Jefferson April 19, 1817, and in reference to the treaty, Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 311 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June, 1814.
Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote: The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained." From: Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said: As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1790.
James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.
Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
From: Religion of the American Enlightenment by G. Adolph Koch, p. 40 (1968, Thomas Crowell Co., New York, NY.) quoting preface and p. 352 of Reason, the Only Oracle of Man and A Sense of History compiled by American Heritage Press Inc., p. 103 (1985, American Heritage Press, Inc., New York, NY.)
Thomas Paine: I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." The Age of Reason, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)
Better pray some more...then go sacrifice a few chickens with your fellow dupes.
Thanks for a good rundown, but I humbly disagree that Lott ought to step down. His remembrance of Strom Thurmond was not as someone who ran on a segregationist platform, but was recalling the entirety of his public career. That totality contained far more proAmerican items such as fighting for a strong defense and foreign policy, than items which were in any way racist. This is the only tack that needs to be taken, and by doing so, we must refute the liberal media's attempts to tar Lott and in doing so attempting to bring down the whole party.
posted on 12/14/2002 5:56:28 AM PST
I love the cant exhibited,in America, about racial matters. So called racism is by implication worse than arson, burglary, murder, rape, robbery, sodomy and especially worse than the crimes of sedition and treason. The flap over Lott has as its ultimate goal the return of the senate to the Democrats by forcing Lotts resignation.
To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
The flap over Lott has as its ultimate goal the return of the senate to the Democrats by forcing Lotts resignation.
Absolutely true. We can't give an inch on this, regardless what we think of Lott.
It simply boggles the mind, that he would be hounded out of office because of what somebody inferred from his remarks.
posted on 12/14/2002 1:14:49 PM PST
Do you agree with him (Bush) making a deal not to prosecute the Clintons? I've had about enough of your brand of 'Republican Strategist' bilge. Prove your assertion or be known for the chaos operative you now appear to be. [And I'm not referring to the Maxwell Smart C.H.A.O.S. You're sounding more and more like anything but a Republican. Prove your assertion that Bush made any deal with the corrupt clintons, weasel.]
posted on 12/15/2002 7:30:33 PM PST
Perhaps he is misremembering and he really means Lott's refusal to step up to the plate on the impeachment. That sounds like a sellout to the Clintons to me. Another reason Lott should go. Read Shippers' book.
posted on 12/15/2002 7:36:01 PM PST
I agree with that, Inkie, if that's what RS meant to say. And if he/she miss-spoke, I'll apologize forthwith. I won't sit quietly while folks make up lies about this president, even with his faults. He's our commander-in-chief and we're at war for our very survival. Undermining the nation's confidence is the democrat methodology and I'm about sick of it spewing here at FR.
posted on 12/15/2002 7:44:34 PM PST
The Stupid Party appears to be following your advice, which is pretty predictable since it's right out of their SOP manual. This is a losing approach, and has been for many years. The fact that so many conservatives can't understand this is one of the primary reasons why many of us call the party they give undeserved loyalty to the Stupid Party. I'm no fan of Trent Lott; IMHO he epitomizes what's wrong with the Stupid Party. However, his "crime" was making a statement which members of the Evil Party find "offensive." Why not try countering this p.c. nonsense with a simple; "What part of the Bill of Rights don't you understand?" "Why don't you provide us with a list of words, statements, jokes and expressions which you find offensive and undeserving of constitutional protection?" Make this a civil liberties/free speech issue and stop apologizing every second! Not that I care, of course.
In San Francisco, the Gay community more or less "stones" itself on a regular basis, and as far as shooting illegals, I figure its only O.K. to return fire.
As to the Lott thing, you have some valid points; I am not sure if Republicans (of which I am one) have thought this out to one possible logical conclusion:
Lott is removed as Senate Majority leader. Lott then quits Senate rather than face disgrace. Mississippi governor appoints demonRAT to fill Lott's term which is up in 2006; Senate again becomes 50-50 with true RINOS like Spector, Chafee and Snow voting along with Jeffords with the RATS; Bush again stymied by the Senate, unable to fill judicial vacancies. Do we want this?
posted on 12/16/2002 11:53:30 AM PST
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