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Citing Dangers, Experts Warn Against Vaccinating Children
nytimes.com ^ | 12/12/02 | DONALD G. McNEIL Jr.

Posted on 12/13/2002 2:11:28 PM PST by FreeSpeechZone

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To: finnsheep
Yeah, and maybe when their un-vaccinated friends "bleed out" in Ebola fashion, and/or have their skin peel off in sheets they'll think maybe they screwed up. Smallpox can rival leprosy and hemorraghic fever in sheer horror potential, something to consider when thinking about skipping the vaccine.

Somehow most everyone of my generation survived getting innoculated, and I really can't imagine what drives the paranoia against getting the vaccine.

21 posted on 12/13/2002 8:17:09 PM PST by Pelham
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To: RightWhale
We understand the vaccination has worn off, that nobody is immune now. Is that true?

Yup. At least that's what AFIP, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, says.

22 posted on 12/13/2002 8:39:28 PM PST by Pelham
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To: FreeSpeechZone
SPV-abortion?
23 posted on 12/13/2002 8:42:07 PM PST by maestro
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To: finnsheep
People who are worried about the smallpox vaccine can receive the Darwin Awards posthumously if there is a smallpox outbreak. Only pity their children for having such dumb parents. I was vaccinated for small pox and so were my kids - - now in their late 30's due to being overseas.

It'll be unfortunate when those who falsely consider themselves to be immune are the ones that are dying horrible deaths if we ever ARE hit with a smallpox bioattack. I myself don't take pleasure or delight with such a thought, as many here seem to be somewhat amused with the thought of their supposed mental inferiors succumbing to the disease.


It is apparent from historical facts and scientific observations that the smallpox vaccine actually WEAKENS the immune system causing those vaccinated to be MORE susceptable to the disease. The smallpox vaccine is actually cowpox virus, which is based on a superstitious belief dating back to the 1700's that dairy maids that caught cowpox were immune to smallpox. This was known to be untrue back in the 1800's, and that it has no basis in scientific fact...

From HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES;

- In 1871-2, England, with 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, it experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany, with a vaccination rate of 96%, there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox. (The Hadwen Documents)

From DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS CONDEMN VACCINATION

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."
Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine

"Live virus vaccines against influenza and paralytic polio, for example, may in each instance cause the disease it is intended to prevent..."
Dr Jonas Salk, developer of first polio vaccine, Science, 1977

"Vaccination does not protect, it actually renders its subjects more
susceptible by depressing vital power and diminishing natural resistance, and millions of people have died of smallpox which they contracted after being vaccinated."

Dr J.W. Hodge , The Vaccination Superstition

"It is nonsense to think that you can inject pus - and it is usually from the pustule end of the dead smallpox victim … it is unthinkable that you can inject that into a little child and in any way improve its health. What is true of vaccination is exactly as true of all forms of serum immunisation, if we could by any means build up a natural resistance to disease through these artificial means, I would applaud it to the echo, but we can't do it."
Dr William Howard Hay (1937)

"Immunisation against smallpox is more hazardous than the disease itself."
Professor Ari Zuckerman, World Health Organisation

From THE FRAUD OF VACCINATION

Jenner's idea was based solely upon a dairymaid's superstition. He sought to give it a scientific air by calling cowpox (a disease which bears no analogy to smallpox) variolae vaccinae--i.e., smallpox of the cow. The Latin name was not without its effect, and anything that promised less harmful results than the prevailing practice of the direct inoculation of smallpox matter (which had been killing people by hundreds, and afterwards had to be forbidden by Act of Parliament) was acceptable at the time to the frightened and gullible population. The rest was an affair of influence. When once an error is accepted by a profession corporately and endowed by Government, to uproot it becomes a herculean task, beside which the entrance of a rich man into the Kingdom of Heaven is easy.

From The Case Against Vaccination Verbatim Report of AN ADDRESS By WALTER HADWEN J.P., M.D., L.R.C.P., M.R.C.S., L.S.A., Etc (Gold Medalist in Medicine and in Surgery)

In 1796, however, he performed his first experiment as it is called. He took a boy named James Phipps and inoculated him with some lymph which he took from a cow-pox vesicle. A short time afterwards he inoculated this boy with small-pox, and for very solid reasons which could be explained, the small-pox did not take. "Now," said Jenner, "is the grand discovery. This will answer my purpose, and I shall soon be able to get another paper for the Royal Society," to follow in the wake of the glorious cuckoo, which has been wittily termed "the bird that laid the vaccination egg." (Laughter.) That was in 1796, and we are close upon the century since that wonderful experiment. Russia is preparing to celebrate it, and the Bristol medical men are sending round for subscriptions for £1,000 in order to purchase the relics of this wonderful man--such as his snuff box, his lancets, and the chair the great man sat in--to put in the museum of the Bristol University. I have noticed that the doctors have omitted one important article which appeared in the Bristol Exhibition--a hair from the tail of the first cow that supplied the vaccine lymph. (Loud laughter.) I am sorry they have left that out. I am sure nothing would so stir the hearts of the coming race of medical men as an evidence of belief in the principle contained in the old herb book by which a person had to carry a hair of the tail of the dog that bit him. (Laughter.) I do not know whether the sensation from Russia is going to filter through to England, but unless you people in Gloucester are going to be swayed by the manifesto issued by the medical men my advice to you is to keep your rejoicings for the 5th November, and then if you happen to be hard tip for a companion for Guy Fawkes I would advise you to have an effigy of Edward Jenner to help feed the flames of your bonfire. (Laughter and cheers.)

Jenner inoculated this boy James Phipps in 1796. Then, as soon as he had done that, he wrote it down--(laughter)--and went round the neighbourhood collecting desultory information with regard to cow-pox and cow-poxed milkers. He got cases of those who had had cow-pox years before and had never had small-pox, as if everybody was bound to have the small-pox. Then he took some worn-out paupers, over 6o years of age, who had had the cow-pox years and years before and inoculated them with small-pox to see if they would take. He found they did not take, because as people get advanced in life they are more or less proof against it. "This," said Jenner, "is the grand proof of the value of inoculation of cowpox as a preventive of small-pox."

From Smallpox

Writing in the British Medical Journal (21/1/1928 p116) Dr L Parry questions the vaccination statistics which revealed a higher death rate amongst the vaccinated than the unvaccinated and asks:

"How is it that smallpox is five times as likely to be fatal in the vaccinated as in the unvaccinated?

"How is it that in some of our best vaccinated towns - for example, Bombay and Calcutta - smallpox is rife, whilst in some of our worst vaccinated towns, such as Leicester, it is almost unknown?

"How is it that something like 80 per cent of the cases admitted Into the Metropolitan Asylums Board smallpox hospitals have been vaccinated, whilst only 20 per cent have not been vaccinated?

"How is it that in Germany, the best vaccinated country in the world, there are more deaths in proportion to the population than In England - for example, in 1919, 28 deaths in England, 707 In Germany; In 1920, 30 deaths In England, 354 In Germany In Germany In 1919 There were 5,012 cases of smallpox with 707 deaths; in England In 1925 There were 5,363 cases of smallpox with 6 deaths. What is the explanation?

And finally, from WHO SMALLPOX ERADICATION SUCCESS RECONSIDERED--Raymond Obosawin MD

In further examining this question from a longer historical perspective, it became readily apparent that the WHO claim did not at all square with the earlier data, i.e., historical smallpox eradication efforts. If we go back as far as the last century, we discover that Creighton's independent research findings as published in the Ninth Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, strongly contradict the effectiveness of mass smallpox immunization programs. A few revealing excerpts follow:
  • . . . in Bavaria in 1871 of 30,742 cases 29,429 were in vaccinated persons, or 95.7 percent.
  • Notwithstanding the fact that Prussia was the best re-vaccinated country in Europe, its mortality from smallpox in the epidemic of 1871 was higher (69,839) than any other Northern state.
  • According to a competent statistician (A. Vogt), the death-rate from smallpox in the German army, in which all recruits are re-vaccinated, was 60 percent more than among the civil population of the same age . . . although re-vaccination is not obligatory among the latter.
  • It is often alleged that the unvaccinated are so much inflammable material in the midst of the community, and that smallpox begins among them and gathers force so that it sweeps even the vaccinated before it. Inquiry into the facts has shown that at Cologne in 1870 the first unvaccinated person attacked by smallpox was the 174thin order of time, at Bonn the same year the 42d, and at Liegnitz in 1871 the 225th.111

24 posted on 12/14/2002 5:08:25 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: Pelham
Somehow most everyone of my generation survived getting innoculated, and I really can't imagine what drives the paranoia against getting the vaccine

The vaccine makes one MORE susceptable to the smallpox virus.

25 posted on 12/14/2002 5:09:44 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/thrive/2002/dec/14/121400461.html

(Snip)

Some Hurt Won't Get Vaccine Compensation

ASSOCIATED PRESS

Some people who may be injured by the smallpox vaccine will not qualify for compensation under current law...

Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson said he is open to discussing a compensation fund like the one that aids people hurt by other vaccines, but he said there is no legislation drafted and none is imminent.

The smallpox vaccine, which is being recommended for some 10 million Americans, is more dangerous than any other given in this country.
26 posted on 12/14/2002 5:26:42 PM PST by Jael
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To: Jael
Some people who may be injured by the smallpox vaccine will not qualify for compensation under current law...

Well, well, well. I guess those that said that the Homeland Security Bill would allow for compensation if a mandated vaccine caused harm were full of it..

27 posted on 12/14/2002 5:30:57 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
Bump for the truth
28 posted on 12/14/2002 6:29:10 PM PST by Jael
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To: FreeSpeechZone
I think this a good move. I remember getting my smallpox vacination just before leavng for Boy Scout Camp and having to tape a plastic shield over it so I could just go swiming.

What the nay-sayers are trumpeting are just the facts about the inconveniences associated with the smallpox vacination...which I might add, are extremely minor compared to the inconveniences of having the disease...scarring for life if you live or more likely, death if you don't!

The Tinfoil Beret Commandos are way off base here. It shows how damned far down the intellectual food chain we have slipped since the 1950's!

29 posted on 12/15/2002 3:28:31 AM PST by Redleg Duke
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To: RightWhale
Hey! You are right! I just plain forgot! I died as a result of my smallpox vacination!

Silly me!

30 posted on 12/15/2002 3:30:28 AM PST by Redleg Duke
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To: aruanan
"The major problem today isn't the vaccine, its safety, and its health benefits, but legal matters having nothing specifically to do with the particular vaccine..."

The solution then seems obvious. Ecpand hunting hours and increase the bag limits on lawyers very generously. The problem is that they have no natural predators and are too high up the food chain!

31 posted on 12/15/2002 3:33:49 AM PST by Redleg Duke
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To: Redleg Duke
Sorry, I meant "expand" hunting hours. But I think you get my drift.
32 posted on 12/15/2002 3:37:13 AM PST by Redleg Duke
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To: gitmo
I remember polio immunizations as a pink liquid on a sugar cube. Why climb a tree?
33 posted on 12/15/2002 3:47:12 AM PST by advocate10
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To: advocate10
There was also a shot. As I remember and it was a long time ago, the sugar pills came later. The polio vaccine was given in three doses. I think my first dose was a shot but the last two were the sugar cubes.

If I'd climbed a tree to avoid the vaccine, my Dad would have busted my butt when I got down and then we'd gone for the vaccine. I would probably have had to walk to get the vaccine since I sitting down in a car would not have been comfortable.
34 posted on 12/15/2002 4:56:13 AM PST by DugwayDuke
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To: advocate10
Before that they were a big (huge) needle.
35 posted on 12/15/2002 6:34:50 AM PST by gitmo
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To: Thud
Smallpox vaccinations are safer for children aged 3-10 than for adults.

You're right ... I was vaccinated in 1949 - the year of the last U.S. smallpox case. All children were vaccinated at 5 before entering school. There is a correlation between those vaccinations and the elimination of the disease.

36 posted on 12/15/2002 6:58:44 AM PST by bimbo
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To: Dasaji
With your permission, I am going to cut and paste this into Word, for future use. A very effective and succinct reply to diffuse the people who can't seem to get by personal attacks. I'm sure I'll get a lot of use out of it on a few select threads....

Thanks again.

37 posted on 12/15/2002 7:18:49 AM PST by The Coopster
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