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Alberta uprising feared
Sun Media ^ | December 15, 2002

Posted on 12/15/2002 1:26:39 PM PST by Clive

Premier Ralph Klein expects an uprising on the right to lead a charge for Alberta's separation from Canada.

"There are enough people who are frustrated to form a political party, but I just don't know what they are going to do, other than to mount a movement for separation," Klein told The Sun. "And yes, I am concerned about it."

Voices in favour of Alberta leaving Canada are rising, the premier said.

"I know there are people out there who want to separate. I was listening to a radio show just the other day and there was caller after caller saying, 'We should separate. We've had enough.

" 'We're being ignored, we don't count in Canada. Not only as it relates to Kyoto but the Canadian Wheat Board, gun registration, senate reform, you name it. All we do is give and give and get nothing back,' " Klein said. "I understand that frustration, and I feel the same way. But there's still hope."

Movement by Ottawa on Alberta's continuing complaints is needed, the premier said, or even some provincial Tory supporters will turn their backs on the party because it hasn't had any effect.

Alan Cruikshank, deputy leader of the Alberta Social Credit Party, said Klein is dead right.

"We are trying as a party to keep our noses clean - we haven't taken any position on separation. But we are finding that many of our members are supportive of independence," Cruikshank said.

And, he added, a burgeoning movement in that direction may not be a bad thing.

"In the past, parties that have taken a more extreme position than the Tories on things like separation have often caused the central government to take more notice of Alberta's needs. It indirectly results in a way Albertans can apply political leverage."

Peter McCormick, a political scientist at the University of Lethbridge, said it's unlikely a separatist party would have much success in Alberta's current political climate.

McCormick said the Canadian Alliance on the federal scene and the Progressive Conservatives on the provincial scene both have had recent successes.

"Why would you go for another political party?" McCormick asked.

The Alliance has had the cost of the gun control registry revealed in the House of Commons, while the Alberta PCs have kept fighting the ratification of the Kyoto accord.

"It's the easiest thing on earth to form a political party. It's the hardest thing on earth to get enough votes," said McCormick.

McCormick said it never hurts in a province to have a separatist vein, even with "vague threats" of leaving Confederation, to make other governments take you more seriously.

"It's less likely we would be taken for granted," he said.


TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government
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1 posted on 12/15/2002 1:26:39 PM PST by Clive
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To: Great Dane; liliana; Alberta's Child; Entropy Squared; Rightwing Canuck; Loyalist; canuckwest; ...
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2 posted on 12/15/2002 1:27:12 PM PST by Clive
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To: Clive
Alberta is welcome any day to become the 51st state. They'll probably stick it out on their own, though, and that's not such a bad idea either. If British Columbia would come, too, that would be doubly awesome.
3 posted on 12/15/2002 1:28:59 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: xm177e2
Alberta is welcome any day to become the 51st state.

Trade you California for Alberta.

4 posted on 12/15/2002 1:31:09 PM PST by Drango
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To: xm177e2
There is also the Cascadia movement with active membership in Washington, British Columbia and Alaska to form a Pacific Rim nation.

Perhaps Alberta, Yukon and Oregon could become part of it.

Even with the original membership, the nation would be viable separated from the rest of the continent with its trade oriented toward the Pacific Rim.

5 posted on 12/15/2002 1:43:20 PM PST by Clive
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To: Drango
LOL most of California is okay. I'm in a part of California that is NOT liberal-dominated (in fact, we have the MOST churches per capita out of the ENTIRE US and there were local election signs in my area that said "Agran / Democrat / Just say No." It's about as right-wing as you can find in this country.

Canada can have Hollywood/Los Angeles and the San Francisco coastal area. That would be a fair trade.

6 posted on 12/15/2002 1:44:03 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: Clive
Canada is the most useless place on earth.
Inhabited by morons, governed by loons!
7 posted on 12/15/2002 1:46:08 PM PST by claptrap
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To: Clive
"....All we do is give and give and get nothing back,' " Klein said."

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner!

8 posted on 12/15/2002 1:49:51 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: The KG9 Kid
We would love to have alberta and all of the western provinces come in.
9 posted on 12/15/2002 1:52:12 PM PST by fooman
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To: claptrap
Mind telling us what is your state?

Just so that we may know your vantage point?

It is not shown on your home page.

10 posted on 12/15/2002 1:52:46 PM PST by Clive
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To: xm177e2
You are so right.

I live in the liberal part of California, but I am amazed and heartened by the many Californians that are conservative.

BTW, Michael Savage, of the Savage Nation, got his start in San Francisco, and he was and is very popular there.
11 posted on 12/15/2002 1:54:21 PM PST by NEWwoman
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To: xm177e2
No no no, dont let them become a 51st state, we need a place to go if Hillary is elected.
12 posted on 12/15/2002 1:57:01 PM PST by Husker24
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To: Clive
I wonder if these guys would be considered "freedom fighters" by the UN crowd?
13 posted on 12/15/2002 1:57:45 PM PST by Defiant
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To: Defiant
These guys would really be freedom fighters.
14 posted on 12/15/2002 1:58:39 PM PST by Husker24
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To: claptrap
Canada is the most useless place on earth. Inhabited by morons, governed by loons!

I think that's a little excessive. Canada's a great country, and it would probably be my third choice (after the US and Australia) as a country to live in.

That said, I think it would be great if Alberta and BC struck it out on their own and became independent countries. Conservative competition by neighboring countries would only work to make our own government better!

15 posted on 12/15/2002 1:58:44 PM PST by 537 Votes
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To: Clive
Is this a joke?
16 posted on 12/15/2002 1:59:16 PM PST by ContentiousObjector
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To: ContentiousObjector
No.
17 posted on 12/15/2002 2:00:22 PM PST by Clive
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To: xm177e2
1. Alberta would like Washington about as much as they like Ottawa now

2. British Columbia is Havana North, and in slightly worse economic shape than Cuba

18 posted on 12/15/2002 2:00:36 PM PST by ContentiousObjector
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To: All
Alberta, or any other province, leave the Canadian conferation? I'll believe that when I see it.....
19 posted on 12/15/2002 2:00:55 PM PST by Malcolm
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To: ContentiousObjector
1. Alberta would like Washington about as much as they like Ottawa now

Agreed, I think it's doubtful. But if they wanted to join, we would take them in heartbeat. No NEP, either, because Texas/Alaska wouldn't let that sort of thing happen to them.

20 posted on 12/15/2002 2:06:08 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: claptrap
Canada is the most useless place on earth. Inhabited by morons, governed by loons!

There are a number of former members of the American diplomatic presence in Tehran from the 1970's that might disagree with you.

I can start with the nickel that came from Sudbury that hardened the shells that fell on the beaches of Normandy and begin the list from there. Or I can start with the aero and space specialists that fled to NASA and other agencies after we abandoned our programs.

Falling off the tracks lately? Sure. We ARE goverened by loons, most certainly at the federal level, and frankly that's a polite way of putting it. We'll work it out.

Useless? Hardly. Ask the American lads serving in Afghanistan if they appreciated the sniping skills of the Princess Pats. Just make sure you have a place to run to after you call them useless. :-)

21 posted on 12/15/2002 2:08:49 PM PST by mitchbert
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To: Clive
If independence could be achieved, perhaps persuading Saskatchewan and Manitoba to join, it would be a very good thing. The Trazi-controlled government and judiciary will no doubt have many tricks up their sleeves to prevent this. One I can think of right off the bat is to flood Alberta with immigrants - who will of course be voting to retain all of the welfare benefits they get from Ottawa. If folks up there are serious about this, they'd best move quickly before the Soviet Kanuckistan crowd is able to repond. Oh, and I would not recommend joining the US right away. There are plenty of Tranzis running things here also, including some who call themselves "conservatives."
22 posted on 12/15/2002 2:16:26 PM PST by Bogolyubski
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To: mitchbert
Good on ya, Mitch!

The Princess Pats is probably the best light infantry regiment in the world.

As to whether or not Alberta might come in: it's a possibility. The upside of America is no gun registration; the downside is (possibly) no NHS system. Canadians may have grown used to that by now.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

23 posted on 12/15/2002 2:20:12 PM PST by section9
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To: Clive
The problem is this -- think about how much control China lobbyists ALREADY have in Washington, D.C. The new capital of Cascadia would doubtless be in a city with a huge Chinese element. The leading families among these communities are importers. I think we'd quickly lose any sovereignty to Asian economic giants.
24 posted on 12/15/2002 2:20:21 PM PST by American Soldier
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To: ContentiousObjector
I sincerely believe that the provinces of Canada will eventually join the USA. Could be as soon as 5-10 years or as long as 100 years. Though my gut feeling tells me it will be sooner and in my lifetime. All it takes is one province to go this route (secede from Canada and join the USA) and the others will quickly follow like dominoes.

There may be a period where the renegade province tries to go it alone but eventually, it will discover that it is better off in the USA.

25 posted on 12/15/2002 2:21:56 PM PST by SamAdams76
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To: mitchbert
There are a number of former members of the American diplomatic presence in Tehran from the 1970's that might disagree with you.

That was the story out of Iran for many years, that Canadian diplomats had gotten about 6 Americans out of Teheran. A recent TV show said it was never Canadians, it was a CIA operation. They just kept it secret all these years. There are many good people up there. I just wish they could throw out the left wingers, the way I wish we could throw them out here.

26 posted on 12/15/2002 2:23:18 PM PST by Mark17
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To: mitchbert
Thank you for pointing that out! Most of us here understand that there are still plenty of freedom-loving Canadians up there. It's just so depressing to see continual outrages perpetrated by the leftists in Ottawa - and it's even more depressing to see them getting elected over and over again. So, if I run on about Soviet Kanuckistan, please accept my apologies in advance that folks like yourself are excluded from the criticism. After all, it's got to be even more annoying for you!
27 posted on 12/15/2002 2:24:35 PM PST by Bogolyubski
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To: Clive
I'd take Alberta.

If Alberta goes, I suspect the rest of the Prairie Provinces (Saskatchewan, Manitoba) would quickly follow.

I think Western Canadians would find us a Libertarian Paradise by comparison.

28 posted on 12/15/2002 2:38:34 PM PST by The Iguana
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To: Clive
Prospective 'Cascadians' would do well to remember the American Civil War was, fundamentally, about whether States can secede, the outcome of which was ....
29 posted on 12/15/2002 2:42:33 PM PST by dodger
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To: ContentiousObjector
I thought BC is Hong Kong East. When did they change? There are more Chinese restaurants in Vancouver BC than in all of Pornifornia.
30 posted on 12/15/2002 2:43:33 PM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: SamAdams76
I sincerely believe that the provinces of Canada will eventually join the USA.

We had better be very selective in which ones we would allow in. The Maritime Provinces are full of descendents of people who left this country - before it was a country - because they sided with the British. Quebec is and will always be French. Ontario is Massachusetts North.

If you want to see a socialist United States, bring them all in.

31 posted on 12/15/2002 2:44:31 PM PST by jackbill
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To: mitchbert
Or I can start with the aero and space specialists that fled to NASA and other agencies after we abandoned our programs.

Canadians are really traumatized by the whole Avro Arrow incident, weren't they? Most Americans don't know anything about it.

32 posted on 12/15/2002 2:49:37 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: ContentiousObjector
Is this a joke?

I don't think so.
I have relatives in Sherwood Park (suburb of Edmondton).

Having lost two of their kids who left AB for the good times in Dallas-Ft. Worth,
I think they (and a fair number of others) despise about anything east of
Manitoba.

One of my cousin's friends was a modest operator in the energy patch in AB.
Although bearing a French family name, he said he and his father avoided hiring any
of those "damned lazy Frenchmen from the east" onto their rigs.
And this fellow owned a BUNCH of rifles.

Although it's a doubtful proposition, I can see AB and BC at least making
real threats to join the USA...if only to get leverage with the rest of the place.
33 posted on 12/15/2002 2:53:02 PM PST by VOA
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To: Mark17
I'm not certain where you get your information but please allow me to bring you up to date. Our folks ran to the Canadian Embassy for refuge and the Canucks brought them all out, alive. One of my people was on the exfil and he gave me a full debrief of the operation. He's a gutsy guy but he said he figured they were going to fumble it during the very thorough Iranian exit procedures. That didn't happen and all made it out OK but the CIA was sitting on their collective butts in DC and had nothing to do with it. Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
34 posted on 12/15/2002 2:53:48 PM PST by Blue Leader
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To: Clive
I think in the next 5 - 10 years, we are going to see a major change within the North American Continnet. The western provinces could be blending within the US and Canada will be different. My question is since Canada is still part of Britain, how would they react to have Alberta leave and join the US?
35 posted on 12/15/2002 2:55:27 PM PST by KevinDavis
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To: xm177e2
Our founding fathers didn't do a real good job of protecting the rights of the rural minorities, I think. It might help if we repealed the 17th Amendement, though.
36 posted on 12/15/2002 2:58:52 PM PST by snopercod
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To: KevinDavis
Canada is not part of Britain. The Queen is the symbolic head of state, but it is a soverign nation. Moreover, Britain is busy 'devolving Wales, Scotland & NI. Hence, they ought not be bothered if the USA added a few of the midwestern Canadian Provinces.
37 posted on 12/15/2002 3:03:11 PM PST by dodger
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To: Clive
If Alberta is serious about taking on Canuckistan, I'll come up north from the People's Republic of Louisiana and join them in their fight for freedom.
38 posted on 12/15/2002 3:03:30 PM PST by Sparta
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To: Blue Leader
There was an excellent TV program about this some years ago. The Americans had to practice Canadian pronunciations and become knowledgeable about Canadian teams in case some Iranian official at the airport started quizzing them (since they were pretending to be Canadians).
39 posted on 12/15/2002 3:06:18 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Question_Assumptions
Canadians are really traumatized by the whole Avro Arrow incident, weren't they?
Most Americans don't know anything about it.


Very true.
I'd stumbled across a bit of the history of the ground-breaking plane on aviation sites
on the net.

I also saw part of the four-hour miniseries that was made about the project.
Folks interested can check it out at:
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0118641

Too bad it doesn't seem to be available on video/DVD.
Although it had it's fictionalized aspects, it was a pretty good, straight-forward story.
Dan Ackroyd was pretty good in portraying the head of the project.

To cut to the chase...it appears to me that the Canadians felt they were
"rolled" by the USA (or at least our military-industrial complex).
They did build a fantastic plane that would have served the combined forces of NATO,
but the USA shunned the deal; it folded, the Canadians broke up the test planes...
and a significant amount of Canadian aeronautic talent left for the USA and Europe.

That may have included my Canadian uncle that had worked for a Canadian aviation
concern in Montreal, but ended up in Huntsville, Alabama in the 1960s (IIRC).
40 posted on 12/15/2002 3:06:44 PM PST by VOA
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To: Blue Leader
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

I saw it on the History Channel. Whether it is true or not is another issue, but they had it there, and said it was CIA, not the Canadians. Either way, it was good they got out, no matter who did it.

41 posted on 12/15/2002 3:06:57 PM PST by Mark17
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To: Clive
I was in British Columbia a couple of years ago and would welcome them into US. I assume Alberta is very much like
B. C. We will take you into Alabama.
42 posted on 12/15/2002 3:10:55 PM PST by southland
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To: SamAdams76
I don't think it will ever happen, or if it does it won't be pretty.

I love Canada, it is my second home. but I don't think many appreciate how deep the hatred of America among much of the Canadian population is. There would be consiterable violence, not to mention 30 million more democratic voters.

I don't think there is any real possibility of even Quebec leaving Canada, as for Alberta it is even less likely. and although Canada is independant, England wouldn't tollerate it,

Kyoto isn't popular, but it has become an article of faith to the 3rd term Canadian prime minister who after 10 years in office still hasn't been able to come up with a legacy, his Liberal heir Paul Martin has suggested to the oil industry that Kyoto is good as dead.

43 posted on 12/15/2002 3:27:00 PM PST by ContentiousObjector
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To: Clive
This does not seem all that farfetched to me.

Quebec periodically votes on secession. It almost passsed once, if I'm not mistaken.

44 posted on 12/15/2002 3:28:01 PM PST by Ken H
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To: Paulus Invictus
Over the course of the 1990's BC had a series of useless conservative social credit governments that were more corrupt than both houses of congress and half the state legislatures combined, followed by an incompetant socialist government that took an already bad situation and drove it further into the ground.

Vancouver is almost as bad as San Fransisco these days, although there is no stream of human waste going down every street yet

45 posted on 12/15/2002 3:30:21 PM PST by ContentiousObjector
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To: jackbill
"Ontario is Massachusetts North."

If any province is Massachusetts North, it is Nova Scotia, not Ontario.

Ontario voted Conservative in its last 2 elections, supported by federal Reformers who had left the federal Progressive Conservative Party, leaving the "Progressive" or "Red Tory" wing behind.

Ontario tends to vote Liberal federally and Conservative provincially, although it will occasionally vote Conservative federally and Liberal provincially. (Strategic voting is more important in a multi-party system than it is in a two-party system like the US.)

Our problem is that the conservatives are not cohesive and the federal Liberal Party has managed to hold sway by shifting its centre of gravity to the left or right to accomodate contemporary wisdon. The federal Lberal Party is not truly liberal and the Progressive Conservative Party is not truly conservative.

Unlike the US, the provincial and federal parties are different organizations, so a Canadian might be a Progressive Conservative provincially and a liveral federally.

Canada is a confederation, not a federation as is the US and as such there is more autonomy in the provinces than in the US states, (i.e. less centralization, although this is changing toward US style centralization)


46 posted on 12/15/2002 3:36:39 PM PST by Clive
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To: ContentiousObjector
I could see how Alberta joining the US might create a lot of discomfiture among the political elite in Wash DC.

The Democrats would fear an independent minded voter base that is hostile to their socialist agenda. Might wreak havoc in the Senate too, from their viewpoint.

The Republicans might not be too thrilled either. They might be faced with a State that is controlled by a third party. A third party which might be very attractive to many in the GOP base.

47 posted on 12/15/2002 3:39:52 PM PST by Ken H
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To: Ken H
I think most Albertans would probably vote for the democrats, public healthcare is an article of faith in Canadian politics, like the death penalty is here.

If you don't support it, in most of the country you don't stand a chance.

Even Alberta which is the most free-market oriented when it comes to healthcare is still solidly socialist

48 posted on 12/15/2002 3:58:44 PM PST by ContentiousObjector
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To: All
The reason Alberta is so much like America is pretty simple.

Over the course of the 20th Century starting in about 1903 there was a steady stream of American immigration.

From about 1903 till the early 20's there was a wave of farmers and ranchers from Oklaholma and Ohio, then after the war till the mid-60's there was a large wave of Texans who moved to Alberta to work in the oil patch, in the 80's there was a massive wave from Boston, New York, Chicago and Houston as Calgary began to develop as an economic center.

And again in the 90's there was another wave from Texas, (of which I was a part)

I would estimate that atleast 60% of native born Calgarians are probably "american pedigree" if you like

49 posted on 12/15/2002 4:00:17 PM PST by ContentiousObjector
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To: ContentiousObjector
I don't think many appreciate how deep the hatred of America among much of the Canadian population is.

Is it mostly from jealousy?

50 posted on 12/15/2002 4:19:51 PM PST by Mark17
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